GREEN PAPER - How To Fix Our Problems

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

This is a summary of the thread How to fix the cuddle community’s problems. That thread is still open, and is the right place for new ideas, philosophising and general discussion of this topic.

In this thread, please post practical, specific responses.

Please consider aspects such as:

• precise desired effect
• implementation
• timescale
• cost
• impact on Cuddle Comfort’s revenue

If I’ve missed anything you feel is important, please accept my apologies and let me know. It was a long thread, judgements and deletions had to be made, and I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

In due course, I will collate the comments in this thread and refine them into individual proposals to be considered by the forum in separate specific threads, or passed straight on to Mark. To put it another way…

Previous thread .... Information gathering, new ideas

This thread ............ Green Paper

Future thread(s) .... White Paper

I want to be very clear that most of the ideas in this post are not mine. They come from the first thread, PMs, and all over the forum. I do not agree with them all, and I’ve tried to be as neutral as I can. Thank you everybody!

Inappropriate/undesirable behaviours and gender disparity

The fundamental problem of the cuddling community is the chronic shortage of female enthusiasts. There are two reasons for this: general societal behaviour (which we cannot change) and sexual and other harassment of female cuddlers (which we can and will).

The conflation of cuddling and dating in wider society is unhelpful to us because it offers an entry point for creepy or simply ignorant male enthusiasts/clients. The more mainstream we make cuddling, the more people will be part of it and this problem will (proportionately) reduce.

More brick and mortar cuddle locations were suggested as one avenue to help with making cuddling more mainstream. In the first instance this could come from professional cuddlers in the same area combining resources to create hosting facilities, which could also be hired by enthusiasts.

More regulation might also help. Ultimately, perhaps a licence (with training) should be required to become a professional cuddler.

We could also normalize same gender cuddling, which would probably increase the number of female enthusiasts. In other words, how can we challenge and change learnt behaviour patterns so that everybody (but especially straight men) can feel more comfortable giving and receiving platonic physical affection with people of the same gender?

Ignorance and negative attitudes to sex within society at large were thought to be unhelpful to the platonic cuddling community, as it means people are less open, honest and direct about wanting sex. It can also lead to confusion and miscommunication. We could take the lead on questions like this, for example by being open about suggesting to people who struggle to keep cuddle sessions platonic that they should consider masturbating some time before the session, in order to reduce the sexual pressure.

Another reason suggested for some of the negative attention received by female enthusiasts in particular was the level of fees charged by cuddle professionals. In many cases these are similar to the levels charged by sex workers, which creates more opportunities for confusion in the minds of ignorant or unreasonable clients.

It was suggested that people are using this site for different reasons. A new Facts field (searchable, and possibly compulsory) could be added with broad categories.

Finally, Cuddle Comfort (CC) could implement stronger protocols in reporting to and cooperating with law enforcement when possible crimes are reported by members.

Identity Verification

Some sort of ID verification was widely supported. Details were not discussed, but this could range from simply asking for real names at registration, to linking to Google/Microsoft/Facebook profiles, to a credit card check.

The general feeling was that any verification system should be voluntary, with some kind of badge on the profile.

It is possible that the mere existence of such a system could reduce the incidence of unpleasant messages.

Concerns were expressed about the security of data: there is no website that can’t be hacked. Apart from the obvious concerns, the possibility of social stigma (affecting either personal or professional life) was mentioned.

Screening

At present, creating a new account requires the creation of a username and password, basic personal data, and verification of email address. Terms and Conditions are accepted implicitly. There appears to be a register-with-facebook option.

Adding some sort of screening process to the account creation process was repeatedly suggested. However, this is likely to reduce sign-up rate significantly, with its unfortunate knock-on effects on published site data.

An alternative approach would be to apply the screening process at the point of sending a message for the first time. Or perhaps even the first message to each new correspondent. Screening could include some combination of:

• Identity verification (see above)

• Completion of a ‘fun cuddle-buddy matching quiz’ which in reality is a brief platonic cuddling education course. It will at least inhibit the people who say they are ‘looking for somebody to bang’, as one contributor put it.

• Viewing and accepting a brief ‘site rules’ document

• Having at least one picture, of any kind

• Having at least one face picture, which may be private
The dating site Plenty of Fish uses members to check whether main profile pictures meet site rules

• Minimum number of Facts fields completed (perhaps about eight)

• Minimum profile text length (perhaps 250 non-space characters = about three lines)

• Minimum length for first message to each new correspondent (perhaps 150 characters)

All of these together would be a serious deterrent to many creeps (and would significantly reduce the incidence of unpleasant messages), but will have little impact on serious users who will complete most of these steps without even being aware of their existence.

It was also suggested that a new profile option could prevent members who live more than a certain distance away from messaging a user. This might help reduce the number of messages received by female members. However, it would be problematic for members who travel, and cuddle with local members at their destination.

It was suggested that there could be a limit on how many members can be messaged at once from one account. Perhaps handled as a limit on the number of active conversations allowed. These numbers could be varied with length of membership.

Overzealous application of rules, parameters, options, restrictions and buttons was thought to be not desirable: we are all consenting adults.

No screening system is infallible, and somebody determined to get through will succeed. Members should therefore be robustly encouraged to report such incidents, with the site continuing to provide an equally robust response as it does as present.

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

Training for professionals

The idea of having some sort of training requirement or qualification for professionals was mentioned repeatedly, and generally favourably received. Some members were vehement in their support. However, it was also widely recognised that CC’s ‘open house’ approach to professionals means that the site is popular with professionals, while other sites which have more stringent requirements have very few professionals listed.

A distinction was drawn between mandating training in some way, and CC offering training for professionals. A thread on the Professional Cuddling board is gathering information on available cuddling training courses.

A system of categories or levels could be introduced for professionals. This is already achieved to some extent by Karma. Alternatively, we could create a specific place on professional profiles for the listing of relevant education, training, qualifications or experience. Feedback surveys, more detailed than Karma, might also be used.

Response time from professionals was mentioned as a frequent problem. Possible solutions include:

• Improved training for professionals

• Professionals (or perhaps even all profiles) could have a flag which means ‘I’m not accepting new clients right now so if you message me I won’t reply’

• Professional profiles could show the average time it takes a professional to reply to a message (or a first message). Facebook business pages do this.

Training for enthusiasts/clients

More education or training for enthusiasts/clients was suggested.

• Organised cuddle parties/workshops (after covid)
These already exist, but it is not something in which Cuddle Comfort is involved. Should that change? How would it work? Could CC offer some kind of support to help members organise their own cuddle parties/workshops?

• Some sort of Enthusiast/Client Cuddle Academy could be offered through CC
Profiles could have a badge that shows which modules have been completed
Much of the information that would comprise such a course is already on the website

• Perhaps just a simple Cuddle Quiz before joining or becoming active (see Screening above)

• Education, or at least hints and tips, in how to write an opening message and conduct a conversation was thought to desirable. (There is now a thread on this)

Membership fees

A number of contributors suggested various paid membership schemes:

• Everybody

• Men only
But this might lead to problems such as cis men pretending to be trans women

• People who only cuddle women
But this might result in members lying about who they would cuddle

• Payment required to send messages
Either to message enthusiasts or professionals or both

A free trial period (perhaps one week) might be allowed to browse profiles and check if there are any cuddlers in the right area

Membership fees might be refunded (in whole or in part), within certain time limits, after a certain number of

• paid cuddle encounters or

• cuddle encounters paid or unpaid: karma might be used to measure this

There was a considerable weight of counter-argument to the idea of paid membership, whatever its form. Comments ranged from versions of ‘I would have to leave’ to ‘It would kill the website’.

Separate Enthusiasts and Professionals

It was noted that some "enthusiasts" think of/use this site as a dating site and are looking to connect on a personal level that is not platonic. Similarly, some non-platonic "professionals" are using sites like this to find clients, especially since the crackdown on adult sites in the US.

• Convert Cuddle Comfort into a strictly enthusiast site
But then there is no revenue stream, so it is not a viable solution

• Create some kind of division, or two separate (but related) sites
But the absence of pros would mean that a lot of guys would never get a return message, never mind an actual cuddle. How long would you stay on a site with such abysmal results?
Years ago the site didn't have pros and there weren't any women enthusiasts here then either!

Remember the reason we are here!

That’s a lot of problems and half-solutions. Let us finish by reminding ourselves of what this is all about, and what does happen a lot of the time. Here is a quote from the original thread by a female cuddler:

When I do have a truly platonic cuddle with a guy, it can be powerfully healing and nourishing. It feeds the soul in the present, while healing old wounds of betrayal, hidden agendas and non-consensual experiences of the past.

Thank you in advance for your comments. Remember, this thread is for specific, practical responses to the above. More general remarks belong in the other thread.

Cessna_guy · December 2020

Regulation??? Cough, gag, ugh! What ever happened to personal freedom???!!!

Mike403 · December 2020

Sounds like you're looking for a more high end cuddling agency.

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

@Cessna_guy please post comments like this in the other thread. This thread is for specific, practical responses.

Regulation?? Cough, gag, ugh! What ever happened to personal freedom???!!!

Some people use it harass, abuse and intimidate. They use it to attack cuddling, and thereby to promote loneliness and distress.

quixotic_life · December 2020

@Cessna_guy ~ It can't just be the majority of women and a few allied men advocating for appropriate treatment of/behavior towards women.

If you don't want regulations, do more to change the underlying reasons for them being proposed. 🤷‍♀️

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

@Mike403 I'm not looking for anything - most of the above was lifted straight from the six pages of the other thread. It's what the people who commented want.

@quixotic_life exactly right!

December 2020

I have no thoughts on this whatsoever. I am just on this site to cuddle and maybe some good conversation.

FlyingToaster · December 2020

Funny, I was just thinking a bit about this before seeing this thread.

As far as professional cuddler training and stringent cuddle sites having fewer pro cuddlers, I'm all for quality over quantity. I'd rather have quality even if it means fewer, if I know there's a good chance of meeting with someone who will be great to spend time with.

Also, I think some of the problems are possibly beyond the scope of this site to fix. I've been thinking about the "creepy men" factor, and I think that may be more of a societal problem, and possibly more difficult to fix than us members of this site can do. I've also wondered if the "creepy men" factor may be an underlying factor in other issues, such as the unbalanced ratio of men to women on the site, as women can be nervous to meet guys from online. Also, as others have stated, women tend to cuddle their friends & family more often than men do and might have less need to find a cuddle partner. So, the male/female ratio may be another thing that's beyond the scope of this site to fix.

I find the "creepy men" factor rather frustrating, as it makes things like this harder for everyone. Women need to be super careful of men, and that also makes it more difficult for the good guys to find a female partner. It seems women tend to get flooded with messages, and there's a lot to wade through to try to find a good guy. There's another site that has a section for cuddle buddies, and recently I replied to a local person's post there - She replied, and initially she seemed open, but after a short while she became less responsive. She said she had been feeling overwhelmed with lots of messages. Another thing she had mentioned in conversation was she hurt her ankle, and later when I checked in just to see how she was doing, she replied rather rudely (I think), saying if someone says they're overwhelmed with messages that they probably wouldn't appreciate a random "sup", and that young women tend to get a lot of messages and they need to have healthy boundaries. I understand that - but I thought it seemed a bit rude when I don't think I had done or said anything wrong. The "creepy guy" factor is to the point where I sometimes feel like men are treated like they're guilty until proven innocent.

BotWithFeelings · December 2020

I believe that root cause of many of the issues on this site is the gender ratio. I also think that it is the fix with the best difficultly/impact ratio.

My proposal, advertise this website in the big potential markets (Maybe I am being selfish but the U.S is a good start)

Precise desired effect

Increase both the size of the user-base and reduce the gender disparity.

Implementation

• Through surveys, account creation questions, and general market research find what could be attractive to the average woman about a platonic cuddle *
• Purchase ad space on websites like YouTube and google maybe even Facebook with ads touting these benefits.
• Monitor the results and prepare to make adjusts as the ratios change

Timescale

Initial research could take about a month, creating the ads could be 2-3 months, digital ads would be very quick to purchase but the funding may need time. I estimate 4-5 months total with ongoing monitoring.

Cost

A quick search on Google for YouTube ads places the costs at around 10- $50 dollars a day. However, the cost of creating these ads and placing them also needs to be accounted for. For the first month, without doing any math, I estimate 2k for the first month? Someone with marketing experience may need to do more math. With more support I could try and get better numbers.

Impact on Cuddle Comfort’s revenue

With more users more people will use the services of Professional cuddlers. However, I believe that for maximum impact alternate revenue sources need to be found**. (a reward/like system maybe?). Otherwise the same complaints will be brought up. A highly successful campaign could actually increase server costs. However, a larger user base means it will be easier to leverage more revenue.

* note: this is my opinion but I think it is important to remember that the average woman is not looking for a purely platonic cuddle any more than the average man. Forum posts may seem to indicate otherwise but beware of selection bias. For many men on this site, I imagine that they are willing to let the cuddling be purely platonic if it is easier. This is why the site is skewed male despite cuddling being stereo-typically feminine desire. The ads will have to be creative in finding other benefits that can attract people who could easily get a non-platonic cuddle (and probably a platonic one too).

** I am sure many users would be willing to donate money at least initially if they found it could resolve longstanding issues.

*** Yes there are probably lots of typos

TheFunCartel · December 2020

I think someone has too much time on their hands and a lack of hobbies. Maybe a hobby building their own cuddle business would occupy some of that nervous energy.

@Cessna_guy 👍👍👍

BotWithFeelings · December 2020

@CuddleDuncan

Can I suggest that you rename the Creepy men and shortage of women section to something likeInappropriate\Undesirable Behaviors and Gender Disparity? It would help maintain a more neutral tone and welcome more people to participate in the discussion without making people feel like they're either unwanted or a faceless commodity.

Also it does seem like the Separate Enthusiasts and Professionals section could have it's neutrality improved.

TheFunCartel · December 2020

@BotWithFeelings Thank you. I thought the terms were judgemental as well.

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

@lonelybutmaybe regarding those two small edits yes you are right, thank you. I've changed both.

BotWithFeelings · December 2020

@CuddleDuncan thanks

FlyingToaster · December 2020

I was discussing something similar to this on another site (more related to dating, but I think it may apply to platonic cuddling as well), and there some people in that discussion who said people can tend to act creepy behind a screen, and meeting people in person ("in real life") can be better. So, a thought I had was what if this site organized and scheduled cuddle meet-ups/parties where people could attend a cuddle event in person? Perhaps someone could also lead a cuddle meet to guide people through the process. I would imagine the creepy types may be less inclined to go to such in-person events.

However, due to the covid situation, I know this wouldn't really be feasible right now. It would also depend on the users in each specific region. But if this site organized in-person cuddle parties, perhaps that could spur interest in more people signing up.

TheFunCartel · December 2020

@FlyingToaster why put this on the site to do? People have access to Zoom and similar products and could do it without the site. CuddleDuncan could organize it since he is taking over the site anyway.

FlyingToaster · December 2020

@FunCartel I'm thinking something where people could meet in a somewhat neutral place - such as if someone had a studio or something with more space, rather than a bunch of people meeting in someone's house. Something along the lines of the Cuddle Party site with workshops & such. But I suppose people could go there for that.

My thought was a group meet where people could meet other cuddlers in person and avoid the creepy messaging. And in a group setting, perhaps others could watch out for anyone doing anything weird.

TheFunCartel · December 2020

@FlyingToaster Sounds like wife swapping. Husbands watching to make sure nothing too weird happens.

FlyingToaster · December 2020

@FunCartel That wasn't even remotely what I was thinking, and I'm not sure where you got that idea. Just safety in numbers, I guess. Like if people go meet for a pilates class, dance class, or whatever, or even a cuddle party, I bet people wouldn't try anything weird in a group setting.

TheFunCartel · December 2020

@FlyingToaster it was a joke. I got the idea from your own words which I parroted. Lighten up a bit and watch “The Ice Storm” sometime.

FlyingToaster · December 2020

@FunCartel I wondered Sometimes it can be hard to tell without nonverbal cues

TheFunCartel · December 2020

Here you go @FlyingToaster

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

Any more comments on the posts at the start of this thread before I start thinking about the next phase.

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

Just thought of something. Replace the monthly platonic only message pop up with a video. 30 seconds, can't be fast forwarded. At the end, you have to click an "I agree not to make sexual suggestions" box. Video is much more effective at conveying a message then text.

Repeat frequency remains at monthly for longstanding users. For new users it occurs more frequently. Possibly higher frequency for male users who cuddle women.

Next time you see that message, please grab a screenshot and post it here. Thanks. That will form the basis for the script.

Probably will be most effective if it is presented by a male and female. If the site is willing to do the work to implement it, we can easily make the video ourselves.

BotWithFeelings · December 2020

@CuddleDuncan that is the sort of thing that would make me leave the site. I don't believe we'll get more enthusiast by have adding an unskippable video. I also don't think we should discriminate by sex.

quixotic_life · December 2020

Well this is new... but only shows when contacting a pro...

and after it is the booking prompt...

I think one of the bigger issues here on CC is false advertising/misleading messaging. The fact is it sets a lot of men up to seem "creepy" from the jump (and may explain some of the reoccurring complaint threads too).

Thread with related thoughts here... <~ click that
Or, view this visual summary...

Yes, there are men who are vile pigs, and if not for the internet might get off their butts and "flash" or physically violate someone instead of hiding behind a screen and doing so with their words. But it's certainly not most! So why not fix the wording and help the good ones start off with some reasonable expectations and conduct suggestions?

@CuddleDuncan

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

@BotWithFeelings unskippable! That's the word I was fishing for! Yes it is a device to be used with great care so that it doesn't piss people off.

Ah, the solution is a sequence of short videos, with some sort of plot device so that you actually are happy to see the next one when it turns up. Maybe we could have a puppy in it. I dunno, there are lots of things we could do.

My suggestion does not discriminate by sex. We are dealing with problems which have a very strong gendered component. It is therefore reasonable to consider solutions which have a gendered component. We would be distinguishing, not discriminating. This is perfectly acceptable. Heterosexual people, for example, distinguish between men and women but they are not discriminating.

@quixotic_life it's not new for me, I've had it several times. That is the thing I was referring to, so thank you!

I didn't include the intro graphics point in the posts at the top because I understood that Mark was going to do something, although probably not much. Has anything happened with them, do you know?

BotWithFeelings · December 2020

@quixotic_life I mean i think that the advertising is an ideal of how the site should work. We should make changes to get closer to the ideal. Also, while I am mainly focused on enthusiasts, my two-cents on messaging pros is this: I didn't have to woo my therapist to pay for a massage.

CuddleDuncan · December 2020

@BotWithFeelings the more time I spend thinking about this the more I think that the comparison with massage therapists - which is very common around here - is frequently unhelpful. Cuddling is much, much more intimate than massage. It involves a level of emotional engagement that is not present in any other job where you are working with random clients. It is so intimate in fact, that it is entirely legitimate for a professional to turn down a potential client in a way that would be unacceptable in almost any other field.

Personally, I've never had to woo a professional, although some did not reply. In every case, I can now see that the not replying is associated with not logging in.

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