Why so many anti-vax cuddlers?

inig0montoya

Now that I'm vaccinated I'm trying to get back into the cuddling groove, yet the first three local cuddlers I reached out to are not vaccinated. Two specifically expressed anti-vax sentiment, while the third didn't give any particular rationale. I'm a little floored! Is this just an unlucky run, or is there some correlation between choosing to be a cuddle professional and anti-vax?

TheFunCartel

No, but I have run into a couple myself. I refuse to support anyone who is not doing their part unless they have a very legitimate reason besides I don’t want to. Kudos to sticking to your principles @audiguy85

Sideon

Perhaps introduce them to the Flat Earth Society... and ask them at which point when you're surfing do you fall off the edge? Inquiring minds hope they go the way of Ozymandias.

TheFunCartel

@Sideon Ok Mr. Shelley.

Sideon

Ah... thank you. But don't call me Shirly.

b0nfire

@Sideon @FunCartel That’s Percy Bysshe, to you! lol

The mind boggles with regard to anti-vaxxers in general, but especially in this community. If they’re not interested in protecting and caring for those around them by getting vaccinated, then they’re missing a big point of what cuddling is about, in my opinion.

cuddles_ndream

For some reason there’s a notion that if somebody doesn’t want the vaccine than they are anti-vax, definitely not the case , & also the thought that those who don’t want the vax are opposed to or upset at those who indeed want it and or take it, again not the case … only because someone is not religious doesn’t mean they are anti- religion (& so on & so forth)

TheFunCartel

@cuddles_ndream I think you missed the point of the thread. If you are going to be face-to-face and not be vaccinated you are endangering others outside the session. To refuse to get this vaccine to prevent that as much as possible is anti-vax in this specific scenario. Doesn’t mean you are anti-vax of all vaccines but it does for the Covid vaccine no matter how you wish to spin it. I am anti-pandemic. You can’t really say you are anti-pandemic if you refuse to get the vaccine that will end the pandemic.

cuddles_ndream

@FunCartel seems like a lot of us missed the point of the thread than, also nobody has to be face to face with any cuddler if they choose not to be vaccinated , & also the responsible thing to do is let a potential cuddler know if they’re vaccinated or not and not lie/ withhold this information.

ggiaquin

Information easily spreads, along with that are echo chambers that repeat what you want to hear. Echo chambers are worse now than ever before because AI algorithms that power social media like facebook want to target exactly what you are looking for. Things like this are contributing to the growing disparity and larger extreme bases on all sides of the coin.

Even research itself is often biased and paid for by activists groups to have research target very specific results to prove points (Take a look at the egg and cholesterol debate for example). So there are very few things out there that are objective based. Fear sells. Anger sells. Rousing the passion of people sells. It is far easier to spread bad information with confirmation bias.

Not many people know to go look at who sponsors the research article that was just published, or to compare results with the industry to validate if this is a rogue thought, a breakthrough idea, or a growing trend that the industry believes is right. That all takes work, patience and effort. People don't want effort. Just look at the news and how they spoon feed people opinion based journalism and tell them how they should react.

With that said, people generally resist change. Equally so, there are a lot of people going about the vaccines the wrong way when it comes to talking to those who choose not to. Often using negative peer pressure and public shaming which only drives people further away from what you actually want to have happen. No one is going to sit there, be insulted and go oh ya, you are right. I should get vaxed.

Taking the time to talk to people about why, and truly trying to hear them and their fears so they feel heard and help address their concerns goes a long way to doing so. Sadly though, too many people don't discuss to engage in dialogue and understanding. They discuss to debate and prove they are more intelligent, they are right and you are not, and gives some levels of pretentiousness.

People who are anti-vaxxers already expect to be shamed, slammed, and it only provides them the confirmation bias they seek of not belonging to the larger society. Inclusivity and diversity starts with respecting different opinions, listening to what they say and understanding it, and working with them if needed to show them why they do not need to fear.

inig0montoya

Taking the time to talk to people about why, and truly trying to hear them and their fears so they feel heard and help address their concerns goes a long way to doing so. Sadly though, too many people don't discuss to engage in dialogue and understanding. They discuss to debate and prove they are more intelligent, they are right and you are not, and gives some levels of pretentiousness.

Agreed. The most common reason seems to be a misconception that the vaccines are dangerous. I was told by one of them, "More people have died from this vaccine alone then the flu ever has". I asked where this person got this information (and how many they thought had died from the vaccine), but she chose not to answer that question.

TheFunCartel

@audiguy85 They usually won’t divulge where they got their information from because what they espouse is simply not true. Again, the bottom line is as vaccines go into arms the number of cases goes down. I agree we need to listen to those who refuse to get the vaccine but 95% of the time they recite it is my right to refuse the vaccine and no one will infringe on my individual rights. Individual rights do not trump public safety…period. We have had emergency acts for over 60 years that say so. As far as any scientific concerns go, I rarely hear them. At that point, without them producing scientific evidence that has been peer reviewed, I exercise my personal right to shun them until they get vaccinated and that passes as shaming. If that is shaming then I do not have a problem with it because that person is only thinking about themself.

cuddles_ndream

@audiguy85 the cdc will hold an emergency meeting about heart inflammation following both Moderna & Pfizer vaccines in just a couple of days … this follows several cases of brain blood clots in woman population from Johnson & Johnson / as well as the fact that vaccines are only authorized & not approved fully … I’ll be happy to provide all the sources to these scientific facts or information.

inig0montoya

Did either one of them kill 600K Americans?

ggiaquin

@FunCartel I believe in part, this is because of a growing population of anarchist who believe in the right to self govern. I do agree that public safety should be taken seriously but at the same time I also think that I will do what I can to cover myself and the people I care about. If I have the vaccine I am safe relatively. Even now there are millions of people walking the street who are anti vaxxers of all sorts that interact with the population that otherwise had their shots at a very young age. In a situation like this, they almost feel like it's their time to shine after preaching for years about vaccines.

I guess what I am trying to say is, you also have the choice to not do business with them as well if that is important to you, but the way I see it, I am protected, my family is protected, and if people choose to leave themselves exposed, that is on them as it won't hurt me. At least for Americans, the shot is more than readily available and there are a plethora of ways to get the shot and I believe uber even has some free ride option for getting the covid shot. In reality anti-vaxxers are only hurting anti-vaxxers as the majority of people who want to get the shot already have. So in a way it's sadly ironic?

CuddleWho

m y family is protected, and if people choose to leave themselves exposed, that is on them as it won't hurt me

This isn’t quite the way it works. Vaccines are not 100% effective. A big benefit is not just that you yourself are vaccinated, but that a big chunk of the population is vaccinated. If a lot of people are refusing to get vaccinated, they really are endangering others, even vaccinated people.

TheFunCartel

@cuddles_ndream There have been a total of 8, yes 8 cases from the J and J vaccine out of millions who have received the vaccines. Out of the billions of people that have been vaccinated worldwide by vaccines there have been a little over 100 deaths from the various vaccines. The average age of victims is 82. Meanwhile variants continue to mutate among the unvaccinated and they are targeting younger people and are far more aggressive. Concerns about the vaccines are misplaced compared to the threat posed by Covid and its variants. In addition, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are over 90% effective against said variants if you have received both shots. In short, you have a better chance of dying getting behind a wheel of a car than you do dying from one of the vaccines.

ggiaquin

@CuddleWho it's 95% effective, that's about as close to 100% as we can get. I understand what you are saying though and yes there is still risk involved especially those who took the J&J shot and I understand herd immunity needs to factor, but at the end of the day, I feel comfortable that 95% is good enough for me.

TheFunCartel

@CuddleWho and @ggiaquin I agree with CuddleWho totally, BUT, I have no qualms with ggiaquin’s choice because he has taken responsibility and received the vaccine as has his family. I have no problem with that. It is those who choose to be unvaccinated that pose the greatest risk to others. Yes, there is risk for the vaccinated but it is infinitely less than the unvaccinated who create a Petri dish for new variants to form.

bekah_cuddles

As a professional who requires my clients to also be fully vaccinated, I would say it's probably just an unlucky run and it's not just the pros. I've had several unvaccinated cuddlers reach out to me hoping they could be the exception, and I've had to tell them that my boundaries are non-negotiable.

inig0montoya

I guess what I am trying to say is, you also have the choice to not do business with them as well if that is important to you, but the way I see it, I am protected, my family is protected, and if people choose to leave themselves exposed, that is on them as it won't hurt me. At least for Americans, the shot is more than readily available and there are a plethora of ways to get the shot and I believe uber even has some free ride option for getting the covid shot. In reality anti-vaxxers are only hurting anti-vaxxers as the majority of people who want to get the shot already have. So in a way it's sadly ironic?

Tell that to my too-young-to-be-vaccinated, high-risk son. It's just not the case that anti-vaxxers are only hurting themselves. They are prolonging this for everyone and increasing the risk of vaccine-resistant variants emerging.

JasonCuddles

Lack of education. If people don't know anything about vaccinations then bad information spreads easily. This goes for anything really.

TheFunCartel

I hear the footsteps of the Guardians of the TOS coming

Bbmm

I'm on the phone and I have eye issues forgive me check out Dr Russell Blalock a world-renowned brain surgeon

TheFunCartel

Jessica Rose is not a doctor dude. She is a biologist. She is not an MD she has a PhD. Big diff.

TheFunCartel

Tenpenny is an Osteopath. You going to take her advice on brain surgery too?

Quick reminder, folks. Our rules clearly state: "Accurate information is critical for something as serious as Covid-19, particularly for a cuddling community. For this reason, we may intervene in response to misinformation, fake news or conspiracy theories on this subject." The offending comments have been removed, and the offender has been warned. If this post turns into a hotbed of misinformation, it will be closed. Thanks.

great_pillow08

This is an incredibly ignorant and one sided issue to be discussing on a cuddle site. If you can't respect someone else's personal choice- whatever that may be, then you shouldn't be cuddling. There are those who're vaccinated because they think it's the right thing to do and there are those who aren't being vaccinated because they think it's the right thing to do. It's a personal choice that should be respected either way. We have no way of knowing FOR SURE which is right yet. Just be honest about it and don't judge!

[-Sid] Vaccinations save lives. We do know, collectively, that mRNA vaccinations, which teach our cells to create proteins that trigger immune responses and antibodies in our bodies, are safe and prevent serious illness and death. Public health is not a one-sided, ignorant discussion, @great_pillow08 . [-Sid]

Lovelight

@great_pillow08 I agree. Trying to shame, judge or pressure people either way doesn't help.

inig0montoya

This is an incredibly ignorant and one sided issue to be discussing on a cuddle site. If you can't respect someone else's personal choice- whatever that may be, then you shouldn't be cuddling. There are those who're vaccinated because they think it's the right thing to do and there are those who aren't being vaccinated because they think it's the right thing to do. It's a personal choice that should be respected either way. We have no way of knowing FOR SURE which is right yet. Just be honest about it and don't judge!

I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you, but not all personal choices are equally worthy of respect. For example, you might personally choose to walk up to a nice little old lady on the street and spit in her face. That's a personal choice, but not one that should be respected. For those of us responsible for taking care of high-risk kids who can't be vaccinated yet, whose safety is dependent on their communities having high enough vaccination rates, this is a really significant issue. It's not "oh, I say tomato and you say tomahto, teehee".

cuddles_ndream

Ty @great_pillow08 🌌♥️