Projecting.

There's been a lot of projecting going on in the forum recently. More than usual, it seems . Mainly, it's heterosexual white dudes who are doing the projecting. What, do you think, compels them to do this? How does it benefit them? Do you think such unpleasant behavior has a negative effect on their ability to acquire cuddles?

What do you make of this, dear reader?

Assuming other people are exactly like you is a pretty normal thing for people who are, socially speaking, the default... and "straight white cis man" is about as default as it gets in America (and a lot of people here are from America), so it makes sense we'd be seeing a lot of assumptions of similarity.

Projection is an especially fun form of this, because you're assuming others are like you despite not being consciously aware that that's what you're like!

This works great where the assumptions are accurate—and horribly where they're not.

In the particular case of the straight white cis man who assumes everyone is, say, incapable of cuddling without sexual attraction being involved, this cripples their ability to get a cuddle severely. "Cuddle another male?" they cry. "Never! I'm not gay! How could I possibly cuddle with someone I would never, never have sex with?"

This would be a good thing if all other males on this site were, in fact, looking to have sex with their platonic cuddle buddies. It would keep these assumers safe from assault.

On the other hand, it also displays some pretty dang extreme self-centeredness. Not, perhaps, what most people want to spend time around.

But can it really be avoided?

Everyone (so far as I know) has unexamined assumptions about other people. "I'll put up flashing lights in my yard for Christmas! Everyone who passes will be able to see them and be happy! Some people may not like Christmas (there are some holidays I don't like), but they can live with it!" And then an epileptic has to choose between being confined to their house for a few months or possibly dying.

"I'll look him straight in the eye and smile widely to show I'm friendly!" And then the autistic has a panic attack because direct eye contact is a challenge and bared teeth are a threat.

People who society assigns default status assume everyone is the default (or else they're "strange," "sick," "broken," "special," "divine," or in some other way not quite human). Even though the default is a stereotype no one matches perfectly, they still assume... and consider themselves special in every area where they don't conform (or at least think they don't conform) to the stereotype.

I'm not sure it's avoidable.

quixotic_life

Seems like a fairly valid assessment.

I think what compels some, is being questioned or feeling as if the questioning comes from a place of judgment. Especially unsettling is when that challenge is leveled by an unexpected source. It's as if many of them feel a sense of threat and automatically become defensive. I think it comes from insecurities, a place of vulnerability. And, although in this community it is common to blur the lines of societal norms, some people have a hard time letting go of what's been ingrained. And it's quite possible this forum may be one of their first experiences having their thoughts explored in an open format, while having to think through what they really think/believe. Change in perspective can be slow and difficult. Often there's a lot for someone to deal with unpacking and denial/projecting their beliefs on others (because of course every one thinks the way I do, if they didn't I would have heard about it.) is all they know how to do sometimes. Becoming defensive, is of course a great defense mechanism... just not necessarily here, and not when you're defending something that only benefits you and your privilege there by negatively impacting others.

That's my super sleepy thought stream on this... Sorry if too incoherent... 🤤

@quixotic_life: Seems like you're always tired when I see you in the forum! Have you tried a nice long soak in a warm bath before bed? That always knocks me right out—deep sleep for hours on end. Very refreshing. Anyway!

Projection is most clearly seen in argument, it's true. But people project even when they're not defending the conclusions those projections have led them to. We just don't see it.

For instance:

When people assume "she's arguing for the gender binary; she's putting people in one of two confining boxes" because they think masculinity and femininity are mutually exclusive concepts and so naturally everyone does—that piece of projection lights right up in flashing neon.

But it was there before.

---

When a man announces that it's perverted for an 18-year-old woman to cuddle a 56-year-old man, a bunch of projection becomes visible:

• I can't separate platonic intimacy from sexual intimacy, so neither can they
• Two adults that far apart in age being sexually intimate is wrong for me, so it's wrong for them
• I'm straight, so they're straight

But he was doing all this projecting before; we just didn't see it. We didn't know he was assuming everyone else was just like him in these ways—we didn't know he was projecting.

And so on.

Oh no, @DarkLordChungus , what have you done?

I pray this thread doesn't devolve into a sea of angry flags I'll have to clean up on my lunch break. LOL

quixotic_life

@DarrenWalker ~ For sure an amenity I'm hoping to have at my next residence!! 🛀

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NicoSnuggs

@DarkLordChungus - You are certainly allowed to post what you will here in the discussion forums. Perhaps if you had highlighted a certain projection that is troubling. But you didn’t. Honestly, I don’t understand your end goal with this post except to promote racial divide and drama. I don’t see how that is at all helpful to us growing and thriving in this cuddle community here.

@NicoSnuggs

In fairness, the first two words of his name are “Dark Lord”…

Grains of salt and/or vials of holy water are probably a good idea…

😉

@NicoSnuggs

A recent example is the "Age verification" thread, which has been closed. rj88 (now banned) was the fellow doing the projecting in that case.

CuddleDuncan

@DarrenWalker you make very good points, and I can't help thinking that your use of the Spoiler tag is literal. By which I mean, if the projecting types read them, their view of the world will be Spoiled.

@CuddleDuncan: Ha. Well, an inaccurate view of the world is one that it's good to have spoiled, I think. (The first example of projection is my own: I was making that assumption about @aquariusrising6 and didn't even realize it until @Catloaf's comment!)

@DarrenWalker

"and "straight white cis man" is about as default as it gets in America"

Be more prejudicial.

@CuddleDuncan: Ha. Well, an inaccurate view of the world is one that it's good to have spoiled, I think. (The first example of projection is my own: I was making that assumption about @aquariusrising6 and didn't even realize it until @Catloaf's comment!)"

Me as well. @aquariusrising6 reached out and I also made with peace with @Catloaf I think.

My personal opinion: The starting of this thread is not better than someone projecting. The definition of projection and the accusation of someone projecting is no different.

"heterosexual white dudes who are doing the projecting"

Then, there's that.

And this quote without context:

"and "straight white cis man" is about as default as it gets in America"

This very could be projecting as well and also prejudice to stereotypes.

"I think it comes from insecurities, a place of vulnerability"

This is a contradiction. Insecurities implies hiding and lies when vulnerability usually represents someone trying to be open and allowing things to come in to process.

"Change in perspective can be slow and difficult. Often there's a lot for someone to deal with unpacking and denial/projecting their beliefs on others (because of course every one thinks the way I do, if they didn't I would have heard about it.)

This is kind of confusing. Please elaborate. I'm going through grief, trauma, a careen change, paradigm shift in perspective.I'll comment on this:

"(because of course every one thinks the way I do, if they didn't I would have heard about it.)"

This is assuming every is close-minded especially while under the stress of life. Believe it or not, there are actually people that don't rest on laurels.

And for the record, I'm open to ALL perspectives, ideas and understanding. I read a lot and what I've discovered is books are books and nothing comparable to ACTUALLY to speaking with someone with an open-mind. If you're chill to have a conversation without judgement and share, I'm down every single day.

@Saysoh

"Be more prejudicial."

How is pointing out that cis white men are the majority in the US prejudicial? Do facts make you feel sensitive?

"The starting of this thread is not better than someone projecting."

Ha. We have different views on this matter.

"This is assuming every is close-minded especially while under the stress of life."

Pretty sure the original comment was talking about people who project. And, another thing, the stress of life is a universal thing. Given that being alive is a prerequisite for what is being discussed. Personally, I've never witnessed a corpse doing any projecting.

You might not enjoy the snarky tone of this response. It's the stress of life. That is my excuse.

@Saysoh: It wasn't my intention to be harmful or detrimental (i.e., prejudicial) to anything but the social systems that put extra barriers in the way of anyone who isn't a straight white cis man (a well-documented phenomenon).

As far as the starting of this thread being no better than projecting itself... hmm.

Speaking as one of the individuals who was actually projecting, that makes about as much sense to me as "pointing out that somebody else's fly is unzipped is just as bad as forgetting to zip your own fly." Me, I'd just as soon somebody let me know!

Catloaf

I used to be of the mindset, “Why are we pointing fingers at cis-het white men, when anyone is just as capable of doing what is being complained about?” Sadly, as I’m getting older, I see that it is in fact a trend I can’t ignore, especially on this site. It’s nearly always this demographic that causes issues for me both as a cuddler and in my day to day life.

Having a man yesterday shuffle over his wife (who definitely noticed) to load the grocery cart so he could ogle my body at the self checkout? Grown white male who is probably straight to some degree.

People who felt the need to comment on my appearance or needlessly flirt with me when I worked as a cashier? Grown white men, probably straight to some degree.

People who have attempted to push my boundaries as a cuddler? All races, but it seems all of them were straight to some degree. And the ones who felt the most entitled? Sadly, the cis-het white ones.

Don’t get me wrong, I love males whether they’re cis, het, white, black or iridescent. But there is definitely a problem with cis-het white ones when the majority of them make me feel uncomfortable or unsafe just going about my day. And the fact that people get shit on for making this distinction and told that what so many people are experiencing is a form of prejudice? It sucks.

I’m not asking anyone to admit they’re trash for being this or that, I’m asking cis-het white males to own up, learn, and be better humans (lofty, I know). Let go of the entitlement, the TM, and the objectification handbook and see how much easier life gets for you. I promise.

This advice could go for any man, but if I’m being honest, in my experience, it’s cis-het, white ones who have the most learning to do when it comes to consent, and everything else that’s been talked about in this thread. “Boys will be boys” is no longer an excuse - at the end of the day a grown man, no matter his race or orientation, would do better to conduct himself with respect rather than boorishness.

In my experience cis-het white men have the least amount of tact in this area.

Sheena123

@Catloaf preach 🙌

"How is pointing out that cis white men are the majority in the US prejudicial? Do facts make you feel sensitive?"

I am a sensitive person (in the good way). I'm also very empathetic and more. I'm complex just like most people. The issue I have is "cis white male" is often used with a negative connotation and often used to project as well or just flat out insulting. I definitely don't fit into the body oogling, cat calling population, etc. I take into mind context, but it's very easy to assume that "cis gender" the be understood as as insult the way it's used by a lot of people. I am white, I am hetero and the truth is I'm too shy to approach a woman and just hit on her. Me meeting a woman has always been by happenstance or introduction. I get we could been things like privilege into the conversation but to ask if facts make me sensitive is pretty condescending. You could have just excluded that and it would prompted the same above response.

Like I said. i'm open for conversation, I'm open to learn especially since so much is changing so fast with a generation gap expanding rapidly and apparently I'm falling behind.

nycuddlerny

As a straight white male, I have never done any of those things mentioned.

Neither have I ever seen any white guys do any of those things either when I was out in public.

Neither have I ever seen a guy behave badly in public either of any race toward any woman.

So I must be living on another planet

I live in New York

Catloaf

As a straight white male, I have never done any of those things mentioned.

Probably because as a straight white male, you aren't used to having to be so aware of who or what is going on around you. The average woman's perspective will differ vastly from yours simply because we are harassed much more often and therefore we're looking out more often.

nycuddlerny

I notice everything around me when I go out, regardless of who it is.

I have never witnessed a woman being treated badly by any guy in public.

And this is why “eyewitness” testimony is no longer given much weight in trials…

nycuddlerny

I stand by what I have said.

I have never seen a woman treated badly by any man in public.

I'm not saying things happen or not.

But I have never seen it.

I am living for many decades.

I have gone out often

Have a nice weekend everyone

pmvines

One person's lack of seeing and / or noticing does not mean something does not exist . Many white people will also tell you racism isn't a problem , and many hetero people will tell you homophobia is not an issue. That is part of priviledge, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

TheFunCartel

As a white guy I cringe at what I see white guys doing all the time. We even had a thread removed yesterday featuring a video of a white male kid mocking Jamaican culture and speech. The OP was white, thought it was funny, and still doesn’t think there was anything wrong with posting the video on CC. More than the mockery of a culture it was disturbing that a white parent thought it was cute and endorsed that type of disrespect and bigotry for their child to engage in. And then to post it on YouTube….just sad.

I believe in introspection and I will freely admit to missteps in the past that I used to think were ok until I truly practiced this pesky little thing called empathy. What sucks about empathy is it transforms excuses into lies until you finally get it. Not fun discovering you are a wellspring of misery for other people. Damn empathy forces you to be a better person and there are no pills to cure the “Empathyrhosis” once you catch it.

cuddles_ndream

The word “Fixated” was right… you didn’t get your desired outcome yesterday & you continue to carry it on, you are holding your own assumptions as truth and want others to accept it as just that, the white kid could very well be Jamaican (your assumption that Jamaicans have to be Afro is sooo wrong) Jamaica is multi cultural & there are Asian / white / latin & (AND) Afro community there, Jamaica (as many other of the islands) is an infused culture) … if you were to look up the video on YouTube right now you will see many people saying the are Jamaican & how they find the video hilarious … after the thread was closed you proceeded to go to my p.m.’s baiting for an argument & an entire level of immaturity (which I would have never expected from you) followed … I will not post the screenshots here because it is against the T.O.S as I don’t have your permission, but you are more than welcome & have my permission to screenshot them & post them here, have a nice day all.

TheFunCartel

@cuddlerforu24 Thank you for proving the point being made on this thread. I kept you anonymous. Where did I say Jamaicans are all Afros? That is you trying to defend a video there is no defense for. Go ahead and continue practicing your entitlement—no one is stopping you. But thank you for outing yourself and being an illustration of what is wrong with white male entitlement. I don’t hate you; I am just extremely disappointed with you that you can’t see what is wrong with a white male kid making fun of Jamaican speech in a derogatory manner. No different than the cringeworthy Johnny Carson doing a Chinese face and accent. It is sick.

And what kind of defense is not all Jamaicans are black so that makes it ok? That is white make entitlement at its most malevolent—finding loopholes to justify racist or sexist behavior and language.

cuddles_ndream

Ummm you’re the one that’s disappointed? lol I refuse to keep entertaining this as I know what your ultimate goal is & im not gonna give you the satisfaction… have a nice day : )

TheFunCartel

@cuddles_ndream You entertained it yourself by jumping into this thread when I was keeping you anonymous—so yeah, quit while you are ahead. And no more PMs from me because I am not going to engage someone who insists on defending racist views but claiming that is not what you are doing.

pmvines

@FunCartel yeah that vid was rather cringe inducing