In our defense

stormydaycuddle

I feel like pros are under fire quite a bit for charging money. If I may let me put it this way… I love cuddling BUT if I didn’t charge I wouldn’t be available to cuddle so often with so many awesome people. I work from home and have flexible hours which allows me to cuddle at any time in needed but I’d 100% need to work a full time job and have very little time to be even be an enthusiast if I didn’t make money to pay bills. I am basically free to cuddle at any time when people need me. That wouldn’t be true if I needed to have another job on top of the other one I have. I’d be at an office, come home tired and want to go to bed. I’ve done it before. I’m grateful to this site for allowing me to have such a cool and fulfilling 2nd job. We are not sex workers. There are places to find those and I think you’ll find that on top of it being illegal it costs a lot more. So please next time you get upset with a pro think of how much time we are able to take out of our schedules to spend time with you. It’s because of the fact that people on here are awesome and willing to help us afford to carve out so much time in our day to help, support and have friendships with you. So while I am defending pros I’d also like to say a wholeheartedly genuine thank you to the COMMUNITY that supports us. 💕💕💕

TheFunCartel

I hear you. I do not understand why people who are in a bad place think everyone owes them something because they are in a bad place. And when they do not get it they hate on pros as if the pros were the reason for their issues. Pros are great.

TheFunCartel

And let’s be honest, you and any other pro doesn’t need to justify why you are a pro or why you charge. No one tells them to justify what they do for a living.

CrossFitNLattes

@stormydaycuddle your rates are actually quite reasonable. I think most people wonder why some pros charge upwards of $200 for a cuddle. IMHO, it is up to the client to decide for him/herself whether that money is better served elsewhere. It isn't @Mark job to protect you from unwanted solicitation or even worse an escort service posing as a cuddler.

MarkBPhx

Well written @stormydaycuddle!

stormydaycuddle

@CrossFitNLattes I wasn’t asking to be defended about that. I’m defending pros and our community. The “in our defense” title is because my post is meant to explain and defend pros, the people who see us and the people who participate in this community. If I took your comment then wrong way I apologize. Ty, for the compliment on my prices. I am here to help people even if it is a second job. ☺️☺️☺️🙃🙃🙃

Lovelight

@FunCartel louder for the people in the back. :P

@stormydaycuddle sorry y'all have to deal with this. Hopefully by now those giving y'all flack for it get the point and put their energy towards things that will improve their situations.

Sheena123

@stormydaycuddle I second what FunCartel is saying. We as pros shouldn’t have to justify our profession. I totally am on the same page as you. I’ve been here over two years and I feel it’s never changed. Pros have always been the brunt of lonely, miserable entitled people blaming us for their situation. I feel sorry for those that get to that point of frustration that they start to point fingers at those who aren’t even responsible 😩

I’ve stopped trying to validate myself to that crowd. I used to. All the time, but it went nowhere. It was quite exasperating. Ive always said that a main goal in life is to find a job getting paid doing something we love. We found that. Lol these entitled folks need to realize that and move on! We owe them nothing! Either book us or try to find some enthusiasts. It’s possible to find enthusiasts, it’s just harder. But us existing isn’t the reason why it’s so hard. Come on gang. For real. 🤗

stormydaycuddle

@Sheena123 guess I might be a little new and still need to learn my lesson about people. 😂😂 I just do feel these posts against us may scare off new cuddlers who could find help through the site. And truth on all fronts.

Sheena123

I definitely understand that 😣 luckily, some of these people who try to villainize us show their true colors right off the bat, which I’m sure would have some of these newbies realizing these opinions of them aren’t to be trusted.

CuddleDuncan

Part of me feels sorry for those who criticise professionals' rates. They are destined to be miserable because they are determined to be miserable, to the extent of attacking people who are trying to help them.

I'm glad the site has a low tolerance for such nonsense.

You charge 65 an hour, which is one of the most reasonable rates I have seen on here (granted I’m from California). Even then pros really don’t have to explain themselves, they can charge whatever they want.

The only thing that bothers me are people in the forum like to come on here and pretend like most pros on here do it out of the kindness of their heart, and not for the money. Both can be true, even at the same time. But it’s hard to justify that with the recent price surges.

If some pro wants to claim they are on this site because they know there are people out there who need physical touch, and they care for others, while at the same time charging 175 an hour… that’s just amusing.

But then at the same time you have a sea of male enthusiasts who come on here and pretend to be asexual, and that most men on here are only in it for plutonic purposes…. Then I hear the stories of my pro friends who have felt with a lot of creepy men while having cuddle sessions…. So I can understand the argument from my pro friends that if you are going to meet strangers for cuddles as a pro and have to deal with these issues you have to make it worth your time.

Lovelight

@Sheena123 Yeah but like...

"I'll not hire a pro, I'll also not be open to cuddle someone of the same sex or of a certain age, body type, etc., Though I'm so open minded and accepting and everyone else is like a fruity potatoe! Ugh."

In all seriousness, I can understand your frustration. I believe some of those being hurtful will come around to being understanding and respectful, even if we may not see that transformation. So hopefully all is not lost.

@stormydaycuddle I totally agree.

The disconnect, which I know a little bit about from my profession as a musician, is that people that DON'T do that thing professionally have no idea what goes into being prepared and skilled enough to provide a professional performance, or for a cuddler, a session.

The potential clients, or flat out "haters", think of it as being "too much fun to be an actual job". All while demanding the highest possible standards for almost no money, or worse, the dreaded "exposure". (Which I suppose translates as Karma for a cuddler...)

And exacerbating the issue is that there are no end of eager amateurs, not terribly experienced musicians, and flat out ripoff artists, that are more than willing to charge a little bit less while bad-mouthing the actual professionals trying to make a living.

What I don't understand, and I wish professionals would stop, is getting into the debate at all.

Charge what you charge, the market and clients will bear you out, or you will adjust your rates as a professional.

Reputation, referrals, repeat customers and so on will take care of the rest.

But you won't change anyone's mind. Those who appreciate your skills, talent, and professionalism will hire you. The others are simply wasting your time, energy, and perhaps your confidence.

As a musician, I charge what I charge, I have a contract drawn up and signed.

For those who aren't willing to pay my rate, I recommend buying a boom box and whatever cassettes they like...

Sheena123

@Lovelight lol oh my god I know!! 😂😂
I really hope that cuddling becomes a mainstream thing ya know? There are a sprinkling of business here and there of cuddling and with there being training and certificates and whatnot for it, I truly think it will eventually become a natural thing. Remember! Just a few decades ago, chiropractors were constantly being attacked because their practise was seen as useless, just a hodgepodge of nonsense. And now it’s highly respected. (Not that I am comparing myself to a chiropractor in the sense of training and schooling. Calm down y’all lol 😆)

sillysassy

@CharlesThePoet

a boom box and CASSETTES!!!!

stormydaycuddle

@CharlesThePoet Sorry if I get into the fray too much. I love people but I guess I’m a little uppity when something upsets me.

Sideon

@stormydaycuddle - no need to apologize. Your post is strong and appropriate.

What's not appropriate, and will get shut down every time, is kvetching and complaining about:

• Pros and their prices,
• comparing platonic cuddling with sex work,
• and bemoaning community when they haven't done a damn thing to be a part of it.

This is Sid on coffee. The earlier unfortunateness of the locked thread was Sid without coffee. Can't tell the difference? It's because my 'tude isn't from lack of or having coffee.

Melancholy

@CharlesThePoet
I've been here for a while now, seen a number of pro cuddlers over the years both on this site and 2 other sites.
I think your comment is well written but you're missing something fundamental.
From 2018 to just before the pandemic in 2020 cuddling rates on average went up by somewhere between 40 to 50%.
Inflation only went up by 2%.
Speaking from experience, the pro cuddlers in 2018 were great. I would say some of them were my favorite and I miss them a lot. I think we have great pro cuddlers today, but I don't see them as being better or more professional than the 2018 pro cuddlers.
So I think there is no valid reason for the price difference of 50% increase vs 2% inflation. That is a legitimate concern.
I think I figured out the reason for this change....its an economic concept called price fixing. When competitors all raise their rates, it can cause an increase in prices without any justification.
So I think that's probably what happened here...and no wonder there is some unhappy people. Who likes price fixing?
But I don't think its right that CuddleDuncan calles people miserable.. That seems unfair. People are desperate for cuddling and can't afford it anymore...so why call them miserable on top of that?

@Melancholy - in case you missed it - but complaining about prices is a no-no. Don't do it. Not here. Not in other threads. Just don't. CC does not dictate or endorse Pros and their rates. [-Sid]

stormydaycuddle

@Melancholy a lot of pro cuddlers lost their day jobs. That should probably be a consideration when we think about prices going up. Some people needed to.

Morpheus

Yup it’s not charging that’s the issue, it’s the inflated prices as well as all the additional charges such as travel fees. I used to cuddle with pros once a week back in the early days when prices were reasonable, now I do it maybe twice a year. I can afford it, it just isn’t a smart financial decision in my opinion to may $120 an hour with a $40 travel fee when I used to pay $80 an hour with no travel fee. I still love pros, don’t hate me for what I said but it’s my honest opinion.

Cessna_guy

@Melancholy, price fixing requires collaboration by all parties raising their prices. That is not possible in this community due to the quantity of participants. To follow your example, home prices in my are went up 32% vs. Inflation of 3%. There is no price fixing in the residential home market. Other factors are in play, as in the cuddling market.

WriterGF

It's all supply and demand at work. But writers and artists go through the same thing... people expect us to work for free in exchange for "exposure." But exposure doesn't pay the bills. I say do your job, do it well, and charge what the market will bear.

cookiecrumb

Just because a few people generalize badly about pros, I don't think it's fair for pros to generalize badly about a community, based on those few people. There are bad apples in both bushels, but both bushels came from a good tree, never mind the bad apples.

@CharlesThePoet if you release your music on cassettes, I will dig out my dad's SONY AM/FM radio with dual cassette, 8-track, and record player. I know mix tapes are hard to make, especially when you had to record from the radio.

Bella_Sera

@Cessna_guy is right. There is a certain degree of price-fixing in pro cuddling, but that keeps rates from going too low, it hasn't caused the perceived increase that @Melancholy and @Morpheus are describing.

Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that raises, lowers, or stabilizes prices or competitive terms. Cuddle Comfort makes this rate explicit by requiring that pros charge a minimum of $40/hr. The other mainstream cuddle site, Cuddle Companions, requires that pros charge at least $80/hr with a 2-hr minimum, but then takes 40% of that, causing rates to rise even higher there to compensate.

The rate hike phenomenon being described here, though, is unlikely price-fixing. There is no pro cuddle cabal. CC suggests in its literature received upon signup that the average rate is $80/hr. We do occasionally talk to each other about pricing in the public and private forums, but the conversations are more logistical than strategic.

My guess is that the shift is a result of standard economics. Back in 2018, cuddling was priced on a consumption model. The majority of pros were looking for regular customers, so they priced their services in a range that would allow their clients to repeat several times per month. This led to high client satisfaction and widespread stability for pros. When the pandemic hit, though, the supply of pro cuddlers fell drastically, as many experienced cuddlers took time off out of caution or started experimenting with virtual services that varied greatly in price and quality.

When new cuddlers came in and clients started returning in force, the dynamic shifted to demand-style pricing. Cuddlers basically started charging the highest price they could reasonably get, not because they were greedy, but because it helped them to control the amount of work they needed to do. This is completely rational in an environment where both demand and risk are high. It's also a model that favors the inexperienced as they can trade on the perception of their "product" rather than experience or long-term reputation. There is a perception of specialness or luxury that unconsciously accompanies that higher price tag and it attracts new clients in droves. These high-dollar cuddlers have fewer repeat clients, but they survive and sometimes thrive by charging higher prices to more first-time clients.

I would guess this is why you see more of these high-dollar cuddlers in places like California and New York. Yes, there is a higher cost of living, but more importantly, there is just a higher availability of new clients.

Will cuddling switch back to a consumption model? Perhaps. There are some pros who are full-timers who will raise their prices or minimum sessions for a time after they become quite popular, but then will eventually fall back when they find they start losing regulars. These folks tend to settle around the $65-100/hr range.

I think it's unlikely, however. It's a profession with high turnover. Many pros who are not dyed in the wool cuddlers or who value their day jobs would prefer to cuddle a little less for more money. And as misperceptions about cuddles and sex work wrongfully stigmatize those with higher rates, they are more likely to be harassed for non-platonic services and thus dropout.

It's just one more industry that was changed by the pandemic.

CuddleDuncan

@BellaSera what an excellent analysis, thank you!

CuddleWho

IMO people who express resentment and anger towards pros are often somewhat misdirecting their feelings, or not clearly stating them.

I believe the real source of resentment is the fact that many people find it so hard to find the simple physical affection that in an ideal world everyone would freely have in abundance. And then on top of that there's the realization that finding affection is hard for many men, but easy for many women.

I have absolutely zero anger towards pros themselves that they charge for cuddling. But I do feel an abstract resentment at the state of the world, that the level of desire for affection is so vastly different between us, that you can charge for it but I have to pay for it. And to be honest I think I'm way above average among men in terms of attractiveness to women (platonically or otherwise), and yet given my time constraints and lifestyle it's not feasible to get as much cuddling as I really want without seeing pros. I can only imagine what it's like for men who are less desirable, who maybe go through their lives basically never feeling wanted.

I think many others feel similarly, but what sometimes gets expressed is just anger that people charge for cuddles.

MrMarkAndrew

To me, the issue isn't so much a case of pros vs. non-pros, but the fact there is no standard licensing or curriculum to become certified. Unlike an officially-trained Yoga teacher or Licensed Massage therapist, you can't really point to a recognized industry standard that makes one a "professional cuddler". Neither is there any measurable consistency in rates. I get that it's "supply and demand", but again there is still a range in other fields for a practitioner, based on documented years or training, experience, location, and industry standards. You can charge whatever you want, but don't be disappointed if people don't take you up on it.

Bella_Sera

@MrMarkAndrew, hard disagree. The licensing issue is a red herring. There is no licensure or certification to open a restaurant. Sure, there is education and training, but many industry leaders learn on the job. Restaurants set prices independently and they can vary wildly, yet people are willing to pay ridiculously high rates when the dining experience is superior, whether because of flavor, novelty, notoriety, or ambiance. There are cuddlers with very high rates. Some price themselves out, but many make bank. Just because you might be an Applebee's guy doesn't mean people don't regularly spend the equivalent of a year's salary at Alinea.

Anybody can cuddle, it's true. But, theoretically, anybody can cook. And yet, we recognize the value of paying someone to do it for us so that we don't have to expend the energy and can sit back and enjoy the experience. I think cuddling is soul food. Some simply eat to live and don't feel the need to seek out luxury. Others will pay big bucks and go to great lengths to chase transcendental experiences. Sometimes the end result is just ok, but the demand remains. Don't get mad at it. Be happy that variety exists.

Ahmedali999

I'm very grateful to pros because there are amazing pros who will help and puts efforts,honesty towards thier work and make others happy,valued,welcomed cared.☝️ But some charge alot but not our business to judge ☝️☝️☝️ no no no if you don't like go somewhere else ➡️. Because of 1 pro who helped me and supported me, My life changed completely and have 0 suicide thoughts from death to life ,darkness to lights. have a better job and targets,felt I'm welcomed,cared and valued after I thought society abandoned me because I needed someone to cuddle me at the same time advice and support me. You are not alone be positive.
It's not about cuddle,it's about human needs human in life. How can pros arrange comfortable clean room,flat. they must eats so can they have energy to put efforts and give their energy and emotional to heal or give , if room cold,hot ,they put a heater air conditioner.clean bed sheets hygiene, some have shower 2 3 times a day. Nothing is free in temporary life.
I send big greetings 🤚and love ❤ hugs to true pros who help others.

@BellaSera

Well, no license or certification to open a restaurant besides a few dozen of them…

This is a quick jotting down.

It fails to mention insurance, the individual certificates and licenses that food handlers must have.

https://www.lightspeedhq.com/blog/restaurant-licenses-and-permits/

Not a biggie, but that so many people here compare cuddlers to food service people is a bit weird.

“Are you worried you might become emotionally attached to your waitress?”

Well, yeah! Seems equally inappropriate.