Just Listening

JoyfulHeart

In the world around me, and sometimes on this forum, I see a demonstration of a human tendency to try to "fix" things. Someone shares a struggle, and someone else makes suggestions about what they should be doing differently.

Speaking from my own personal experience here: When I share about a struggle, I'm seldom looking for advice. I'm usually looking to have a fellow human acknowledge that my feelings are reasonable under the circumstances. I'm seeking to find reassurance that I'm not alone in this world.

There are some dangers in giving advice:

What works for one may not work for others
The suggestion being made may already have been tried
The suggestion being made may not be possible for the person receiving the advice
Giving advice can sometimes have the effect of minimizing the struggle, and making the person feel devalued and insulted

There are times when advice is needed, but I hesitate to give it unless the person has asked for it AND I'm demonstrably qualified in the area in question.

I appreciate the people in my life who have been willing to simply hear and see me. It has enriched me hugely, and so I try my best to do the same for others.

Mela_B

Holding space is profoundly important, and often hard to remember to do without infringing on boundaries.

CuddleDuncan

Sometimes I am guilty of that.

calmcontact

Oof. I’m definitely guilty of this. 😔 I know I can be too vocally pragmatic. I know that internally I’m very empathetic to anyone’s struggles yet my instinct when hearing about problems or injustice is to offer potential solutions. It is always well intentioned, but thank you @JoyfulHeart for the reminder that it’s not always the best way to support others. I’ll try to be more mindful of this.

BoomerSpooner

Everyone is guilty of it except me.

(Fingers crossed behind my back)

calmcontact

@FunCartel teach me your ways!

JoyfulHeart

@FunCartel Baaaahahahaaaaahaahhhhhhhhh!!!

quixotic_life

Eeep! 😳

@JoyfulHeart ~ Thank you for the reminder! It can be soooooo hard to [only] hold space and listen sometimes. Especially true when able to 'see' a clear fix.

I used to ask people, who would come to me with their struggles, what role they wanted me to play... Asking if they wanted me to confirm if their feelings/interpretations were reasonable or not, pitch the bright side, offer advice, just listen, etc. I'm not sure if I've been doing this recently or not, but since I'm not aware of doing so intentionally, I more than likely haven't.

So again, thank you for this!!

MissAdventurous

The whole concept of asking "do you want my advice/opinion? or do you want me just to listen?" is, and remains, a vital part of my own self-growth in relationships with others. It helps eliminate a big chunk of miscommunication, with little energy exuded for it.

BoomerSpooner

@calmcomfort @JoyfulHeart Obviously I have been guilty of it too…but…if someone is telling you their problem and they say “My advice to you is to just listen” aren’t they giving unsolicited advice??? 🤔

Funny thing about advice…most of the people I have blocked were people compelled to constantly offer me unsolicited advice. I am sure people have blocked me for the same thing. That is why I stay off the “I am struggling threads”. They can be a minefield for miscommunication.

The others have probably blocked me thinking I am an asshole. But I have had proper training in that and a willingness at times to wield those skills.

JoyfulHeart

@FunCartel I believe that there are times when advice is exactly what someone wants and needs. My post is mostly concerned with observations about myself in regard to being on the giving or receiving end of advice.

I know that there are those who feel differently. I think that asking, as suggested by @quixotic_life and @MissAdventurous , is usually a safe course of action. That way we don't have to guess. 🙂

BoomerSpooner

@JoyfulHeart I think it is self-evident to ask. But I think the better tack to take is to just listen THEN ask do you want my advice. That’s my unsolicited advice.

I think the real problem, which is definitely not exclusive to you or anyone, is becoming so smitten by wishing to help someone that asking never enters into the equation. I have been doing this lately—taking a deep breath and counting to ten and then just listening. Works for anger and kindness alike—two sides of the same coin: spontaneous ego emotion. Kindness can be ego driven as it can make you feel good as well, but kindness is not kind if unwanted.

JoyfulHeart

@FunCartel I agree

nurturingman

I caught myself getting caught up in an “I’m struggling” forum discussion or two recently, which had me writing postscripts and post-postscripts to try to say the right thing, for fear of saying the wrong thing to a stranger about personal issues. I discovered I’m not comfortable engaging with, nor even just holding space for, a stranger in that kind of Internet discussion forum. I would not feel right just saying “I hear / see / feel you” to a new member since I’d feel bad if what the person needed was professional mental health care.

JoyfulHeart

@nurturingman Much respect!

I have to challenge:

"There are some dangers in giving advice:"

Change advice to perspective and think about this; Why is it dangerous to share perspectives? Is the delivery in sharing perspectives now some hot lava game which is very detrimental to communication as a whole or are you forming the idea of, "advice," is another thing we have to be aware of the other person's ego and not to poke at it?

Example:

Friend:

"Man, my wife filed for divorce. I'm in shock."

Me:

"Bro, I can't offer advice, I don't want to hurt your ego."

Or

Friend:

"Man, my wife filed for divorce. I'm in shock."

Me:

"Well, here's my perspective, blah blah blah."

At what point can we ACTUALLY talk to our friends and not have to think about their feelings when it comes to truth or do we always have to be a blind shoulder because honestly, that shit gets annoying. What if my friend's wife filed for diviorce because he was cheating, yea? Why can't I say, "You f***** up, my man. You kept cheating on her and you deserve it." According to the OP, I can't say that because I'm supposed to protect their feelings and that's F***** up.

JoyfulHeart

@Saysoh The scenario that you are describing is quite different from the one that I had in mind as my main focus.

I'm honest with my friends. The people I meet online have multidimensional lives that I know very little about.

The scenario I had in mind also didn't include people who are being jerks, but people who are honestly doing their best to cope with life's challenges.

If my original post didn't make this clear, I'm sorry.

You are correct in saying that sometimes people need to hear hard truths. I'm speaking for myself again here, but I don't believe that I'm automatically the best person to point those things out in every case.

This world needs all of us, and we are all different. I'm not remotely suggesting that I think that others have an obligation to see things the way that I do, or that they should behave as I do.

@JoyfulHeart

That's all fair. I agree in part.

"You are correct in saying that sometimes people need to hear hard truths. I'm speaking for myself again here, but I don't believe that I'm automatically the best person to point those things out in every case."

In respect to being human in sharing I have to ask- What about sharing perspectives in equally rough situations, but not directly related? Would that be considered advice (which is ofensive to some) or just sharing an experience (which could also be perceived as offensive)? Obvoiously we'd have to talk about the ego here that often creates deliusion, yea? So, wehre's the line drawn in the sand of allowed/disallowed communication?

JoyfulHeart

I think the answer to your question will be different for different people.

@JoyfulHeart

So, how do we feel that out? My Mom died not too long ago, so I'm all in the grief. Not just me, but my Sisters as well. This week, I have two friends that had a close friend that had an accident in his apartment (not drug or chemical related because he was an advocate for sobriety), but was found dead in his apartment and my two friends are crushed, crippled. How do I apply my experience with grief to the newly grief they are experiencing. Everyone says, "if you need to talk, call me," right? In this situation, how can you offer an ear with a perspective without it being perceived as advice? Is it the responsibility of the person that offers to know the rope to walk?

I guess my point is human communication is so skewed to the point...Well, I don't even know where it's at.
Books are offensive, perspectives are offensive, simple words are now turned into, "unwelcomed," advice. I think you raised a good point, but I think there's a bigger picture here. I'm no scholar, but I even recognize it, (I'm sure scholar have much more to say about it).

My whole point is all this is that's there's some kind of detachment that has evoloved and people just write it off, as an example, "unsolicited advice," when advice was never the intent, but only sharing was. Something has happened.

JoyfulHeart

I'm sorry for your loss.

My hesitation to give advice doesn't come from a fear of causing offense. My hesitation is because I know that there are times when advice isn't the best gift I have to offer. There are times when it is.

As for the fact that so many people seem to be sensitive, I remind myself that my only responsibility is to act in accordance with my personal moral guidelines. Although I'm not thrilled when that offends people, I do recognize that I'm not responsible for their reaction.

In short, if I can avoid causing harm, I will avoid it. Trying not to offend someone is entirely outside the original intent of my post.

BoomerSpooner

Everyone says, "if you need to talk, call me," right? In this situation, how can you offer an ear with a perspective without it being perceived as advice? Is it the responsibility of the person that offers to know the rope to walk?

Lending an ear is listening. If after they get their grief or feelings off their chest they ask “what would you do” or “what do you think” that is the time to offer advice and even then, they may only want to hear “I hear you and that is awful.” Too many times we think that our advice can ameliorate someone’s depression or grief, only to find that our brilliance only intensifies their feelings of hurt, or even in some cases, brings out anger because they already know the advice given and knowing only makes it worse. This is what women often accuse men of—trying to fix everything rather than just listening and letting them purge their ill feelings through verbal expression. The shared knowledge of the hurt after it is shared is frequently the healing balm sitting right in front of us.

I don’t think language is off kilter. I think emotional, humane language is evolving for the better as we communicate what we actually need, instead of old expectations to Ward Cleaver the problem and fix it with a few patronizing words, an all better now pat on the back and then back to reading a newspaper or now days a smartphone. I think it is presumptuous and foolhardy to even pretend to know what someone who I really do not know online in a forum really wants without asking first or being invited to share one’s advice. I think that is @JoyfulHeart’s point. I concur.

JoyfulHeart

@FunCartel Yes, you've captured my point well. Thanks.

quixotic_life

@Saysoh ~ I think in any scenario, the key is to treat others as they'd like to be treated. And since that may change from one interaction to the next, unless they've specifically said what they hope to receive/gain, we best serve them (and ourselves) by asking. It's really the only way to actually know, and to avoid any harm in the exchange.

ernesto_2

A couple thoughts on the subject:

1. I try to ask before responding, if input or advice is desired. Likewise, I try to preface when I am seeking input, or just an ear.

2. Seeking "validation" often plays out as "seeking feedback but only if it agrees with my bias." When I ask for validation, I make sure I am prepared emotionally for the possibility my audience does NOT agree with me.

3. I, too, am a solution-finder. But I have had to remind myself many times that even if my advice IS sought, the other person is under no obligation to follow it.

4. The most important thing (to me) is knowing that I am being trusted by another person with their story (their life details, happy moments, hard times, etc). That trust is invaluable, and i wouldn't trade that trust just for the chance to inject my own viewpoints into their story.

JoyfulHeart

@ernesto_2

and i wouldn't trade that trust just for the chance to inject my own viewpoints into their story.

Beautifully stated.

quixotic_life

@ernesto_2 ~ Well put. 🤗