Do you think male pros should be allowed to cuddle only women?

nurturingman

Almost all the male pros I see popping up on this site all the time state that they cuddle women even though the site says they are supposed to cuddle everyone.

Requirements:
• You have a photo to attach.
• You can be affectionate to anyone.
• You are accepting of all races, ages, genders, and sexual orientations.
• You should be reliable with strong interpersonal and communication skills.
• You understand and agree to the Cuddler Contract.

(Emphasis added. Source: Become a Professional Cuddler)

I know the admins allow male pros to flout this requirement, but do you think they should? (I’m asking both whether you think the admins should allow it and whether you think male pros should do it.)

CuddleWho

Yes, I do. I think there are plenty of people who could provide a great cuddling experience to either men or women, but not both. Personally I think I am very good at cuddling women, I think they usually really appreciate their time with me. Although I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to cuddling a man, I don’t think I could provide anything near the same level of experience to a man. So if I were a pro I’d probably prefer to just avoid something I wouldn’t be good at.

That said, practically speaking the question is moot. The main function of male pros is to provide a small monthly income to cuddlecomfort; nothing else really has any effect on the world.

Sheena123

I used to report pros that were discriminating against sex/gender because it was a rule but I talked with Mark and apparently it’s not a big deal. So I’m now at a point where I feel bad because I know they won’t get as much business, if any, if they aren’t going to cuddle men too. It’s up to them… I was told you don’t need to report female pros that only cuddle one or the other either.

This is a tricky one. Have also noticed that the vast majority of male pros seem to just have women listed as who they cuddle on their profiles, have reported some of them for that as it does break the rules but not sure if any action was taken as a result.

I believe that professional cuddlers should be held to the same standard no matter what, and that while enforcing the rule for cuddling all genders would likely cut down on the number of existing and new male pros it'd also drum up business for the ones that do follow the rules + help them get taken more seriously as for many they seem to be more of an afterthought than on par with the female professional cuddlers which I believe is at least partially because of them not being held to the same standard with this.

At the same time, there's also the fixed rate monthly payment for male professionals vs the % based payments for female professionals. The site doesn't treat them as equal/the same standard there but it makes a fair amount of sense to do things that way there at least as it's based on the reality that the majority of male professionals aren't going to get consistent enough bookings (currently at least) for the % based system and the site does have operating costs afterall.

They aren't treated equally with the payment system because they realistically aren't equal when it comes to income from the site, so the question is whether they are or should be equal when it comes to whether the rules apply to them and how much freedom they should have for breaking them/whether different rules should apply.

I don't think there's sufficient reason for them to be treated differently when it comes to the rules though I'm interested to see if there are any points or arguments that run counter to that.

Being a professional cuddler and getting to pick and choose based on gender seems to go against the whole idea of being a professional cuddler on the site, not just in terms of the actual rules but also the concept. I think that they should either enforce the rules there as written or change them in a way that affects male and female cuddlers equally to allow for it if that's the direction they want to go in with what being a professional means.

EDIT: refreshed after posting in case there were other replies and saw what @Sheena123 posted, that does change some things and it's good to hear that they're being equally laid back about things though that maybe also brings about the issue of clarity/confusion regarding the rule and how it's applied.

JLM

I think everything that goes into it, as far as why you would pick only one gender or welcome everyone, could be very complex, so I don’t think it should be mandatory for any gender of pro.

And I don’t really think it’s very hard to identify a dude signing up as a pro cuddler thinking he’s going to suddenly get a bunch of bookings from lonely women and very obviously blurring the lines in his “about me” in his profile. It’s fun to think about how maybe they quit their job that they didn’t like because they were going to become a gigolo for hire, and now no bookings are rolling in. The apathy that a male cuddler who signs up to become the most highly sought after sexual commodity in Duluth Minnesota will be met with will be deafening and immediate.

A female pro that limits themselves to cuddling females is going to see it in their bottom line. But if they want to, then they have a reason for it, so let them. Let everybody pick for themselves.

Having said that, it is listed as a requirement on the site, so clarity would come if that requirement was either dropped or enforced.

Ahmedali999

CC they have their own policy and rules which i respect that and i know they want to be fair ☝️but in my opinion if male pros want to cuddle only women that's their choice or freedom. There are massage therapists female only massage women only as an example. why sexiest against men i have seen women pros only cuddle women what about men who want to cuddle women only

Ahmedali999

.

Libra0

Of course male pros should be allowed to cuddle only women. It’s their Prerogative to do so. Why would someone report that to admins? Karen much? You don’t like that, find someone who caters to your needs. Cuddling isn’t like hiring a plumber. It’s intimate at times, if a man doesn’t want to be put in that position so be it. What’s the difference between this and not cuddling someone if they haven’t been vaxed? Pros should be able to discriminate on factors they choose. The market will figure it out.

nurturingman

Here are quotes from professional training and certifying bodies, as well as from a conference of professional cuddlers:

The Cuddle Sanctuary Code of Ethics states "Besides the case where I am directing my services to a specific population, I am non-discriminatory when deciding who to accept as a client or event attendee. I welcome people of all ages, races, ethnicities, religions, gender identities and sexual orientations."

The Become a Cuddlist page states "Inclusivity is important to us. Our cuddle professionals are open to cuddling clients of all ages of legal consent, sizes, ethnicities, religions, genders and sexual orientations. This is a requirement."

The Code of Ethics developed at CuddleXpo 2018 states "As a Professional/Therapeutic Cuddler, I acknowledge the inherent worth and individuality of clients by not discriminating solely on the basis of gender, religion, nationality, race, disability, sexual preference, sexual orientation, body size, and age (above the age of consent)." This is a proposed industry standard created by trailblazers and leaders in the cuddling industry, including Samantha Hess (Cuddle Up to Me), Madelon Guizanno (Cuddlist), Kitty Mansfield (Cuddle Professionals International), Lisa Meece (Holding Space, LLC), Maryelen Reid (Capcuddlers, Canadian Association of Professional Cuddlers), Keeley Shoup (Cuddlist), Janet Trevino (ReTouch), Samantha Varnerin (Snuggle with Sam), and Fei Wyatt (Cuddle Sanctuary). (Source: Snuggle with Sam | Code of Ethics)

The first two companies I mentioned above list trained and certified professional cuddlers on their websites and none of their pros is allowed to state the gender of the people they will cuddle. If it were to be discovered that one of their pros was discriminating on the basis of gender, their certification could be revoked.

The carousel at the top of the Cuddle Comfort homepage featuring male Pros who cuddle only women belies what Cuddle Comfort says their professional cuddlers are required to do. If Cuddle Comfort is sincere about their requirements and they want to be taken seriously as a site that features ethical professionals, they will stop allowing Pros to select gender in their profiles.

@SnugglewithSam
@KeeleyShoup
@HugsFromFei
@LisaMeece
(Sorry if I missed anyone.)

Bella_Sera

It is great for these flagship organizations to have clear and inclusive codes of ethics, but the fact remains that they likely include this language to reduce their liability. In both the US and the UK (where Cuddle Comfort is based), it is illegal for private businesses to refuse service to people due to their race, religion, ability, sex, gender identity, or (at least in the US) veteran status.

Even when it comes to cuddling, federal laws still apply—you can refuse to cuddle someone because they’re being obnoxious, but not strictly because they’re male or female.

What does this mean in actual practice? Probably not very much. It seems highly unlikely that someone would sue a cuddle professional for refusing a session, as that cuddler likely wouldn’t have enough money to bother with, but someone who felt they had been wronged could certainly try to sue both the cuddler and the platform, seeking higher damages or the prospect of shutting them down.

For this reason, the platform needs to be able to point to the policy and say, “It’s not us. We have a policy of inclusivity. We can’t fully control our independent contractors.”

CC really doesn’t have much incentive to police this policy, as it makes people unhappy and they get away with it because they can say (truthfully and justifiably) that most of the site’s operation is managed by a small staff of volunteers.

Here is a pretty straightforward guide to business owners rights/obligations when it comes to refusing service:

https://www.hourly.io/post/right-to-refuse-service

nurturingman

It’s one thing not to police it; it’s another to include the choice in a pro’s profile. Just as pros do not have the option to select the age range of clients they will cuddle, they should not have the option to select the gender of clients they will cuddle. It’s a simple, systemic software change the developer could make — one they already have in place when it comes to age. The claim that giving the choice allows female pros to choose to cuddle only women is a red herring, if you ask me. A company’s word should mean something, not just be lip service.

Screenshot from a Cuddle Comfort professional’s profile edit page

(Even the wording “your ideal cuddle buddy“ on a professional‘s profile edit page is inappropriate since pros are attracting clients, not seeking cuddle buddies.)

CuddleDuncan

The cuddle world as a whole (including CC) universally agrees that, ideally, professional cuddlers should cuddle everybody. However, there is a cold, hard reality that this is a functionally impossible requirement for many people. And the problem then is, are you throwing out the baby with the bathwater? Are you losing people who would be wonderful cuddlers of 50% of the population just because they can't cuddle 100%?

Take me, for example. The question of me becoming a professional cuddler is brought up by somebody every few weeks. However, the 'no man-to-man physically intimacy' thing was hardwired into me by society as a young child. It took me 15 years to get comfortable with simply hugging a man. I subscribe wholeheartedly to the ideal, but it's just not realistic for me, and I believe many others. Yes, for a million bucks I could put my arms and legs in the right place, but I'm not sure the man would feel cuddled. And yes, I am working on this but it will take years and I have more urgent problems to worry about.

@BellaSera you are right that veteran status is not a protected characteristic in the UK, but that's only because it hasn't come up in public life. I've never heard of anybody here being refused service because they were a veteran, or not a veteran.

It's also worth remembering that CC is just two guys working part time, and much of that time is spent defending the site against various types of undesirable member. For example, it was mentioned once that the "vast majority" of applications for professional status are rejected.

Bella_Sera

@CuddleDuncan, I think veteran status became a protected class in the US following the controversy around the war in Vietnam. Soldiers were pariahs upon coming home because of the massive opposition to the war and the struggles that many of them faced with undiagnosed and untreated PTSD left many homeless and/or fighting substance abuse problems. This led to soldiers having a reputation for being drug addicts and defaulting on home mortgages. The government passed a law in 1974 giving businesses tax incentives to hire returning veterans and making it illegal to pass them over or charge them higher interest rates due to veteran status.

CuddleDuncan

@BellaSera I did wonder if it was something to do with that, thank you.

I feel like with most men, and with society as a whole (at least from what I've heard) there's something in our minds that make us view women as the "safer" choice. People are generally more comfortable with female LMTs, waxers, gynocologists, urologists, cuddlers, etc. On the flip side of that, people also tend to view women as "weaker," "easier to take advantage of," "easier to dominate."

So it depends on the person.

If it's a guy who genuinely will give his best cuddles to only women, put your best foot forward! However, if it's a guy who's trying to leech and take money and take advantage - I doubt they'd go through the hoops to be a professional anyway. But if they do and they are on here, I hope that women will also be proactive and speak up for themselves and report this account, leave reviews, etc. Abusers should be shut down.

android3665

yes I think they have the right just like you can't impose a price on someone

Melancholy

Cuddling is a very intimate close contact activity. I would find it extremely horrible if anyone was forced to cuddle with someone they don't want to.