Dad

Gallowglass

I'm not sure what the ask is, in this post. I can easily see this running into very sensitive feelings and topics. This is a space I am floating in and struggling with. A Lot.

I guess I'm not looking for heartfelt encouragement. That makes me feel more guilty.
I'm not looking for a specific answer, since we are all different and in this I am trying to chose my own course.
I guess I'd just like to use you all as a sounding-board and just get some kind, food for thought. Contribute what is meaningful to you. I'm trying to find a balance of do-the-right-thing and my comfort.

I was raised by great parents. My mom has been gone for a while. My dad is slipping. I've been running, distancing.
My dad is in a home and Covid, illness, timing, etc have been very hard on him. I know that I will lose him eventually.

Having been in the cuddle space, a while now, and having become a new person because of a choice of self care which includes touch, I know how much difference it can help to bring about. Having been hurt by a man (stranger, not family/friend) in my youth, I do not have a solid set of tools for dealing with emotions, touch, care, love.

Lately (like starting today), a question has bubbled up. Is there some way that I can bring some healing or comfort, to my dad, through touch?

Keep in mind that I used to get physically ill at the touch of any man. I've come a long way from that. But it factors into the history. I haven't been close to my family in a long time. I show up in spirit. I show up when I feel I have to. I was seeing my dad weekly before covid. It would always be some talk and a little squeeze before I went home.

Call it survivor guilt about being able to leave. Call it patriarchal obligation. Call it whatever oppressive word you want. But underneath it all, I love my dad and I want to be there for him. I just don't know how to begin, how I will be triggered, or how to gently introduce contact/touch, to our visits. I can't picture it. I can't plan it. But, for my own healing, and for the love of dad, I want it.

I welcome your thoughtful replies. I may not personally respond to many of them. This is a deep, new, space to think about, to operate in. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks, Daniel

PS My post includes topics like molestation/abuse, family obligation, self discovery and healing, sadness and joy, struggle and triumph. Please be respectful of other people's response. We all come from a place. We all deserve to express ourselves and it won't look the same for any two people. I really don't want this post to generate any negative comments or feelings towards each other, other than what might get directed towards me. I'm a big boy and I can handle that stuff. Thanks.

BrianL

As someone who just lost someone close to two weeks ago (she was younger than me), all I can say is if you care for him and don't want to have regrets later in life (could be as soon as when he passes), stop running and distancing yourself. I will regret the rest of my life that I didn't see my cousin more, I will regret for the rest of my life that she went first when statistically I should have gone before her (being male and the oldest of the 8 of us cousins), and she leaves behind kids when I have none.

I can't tell you to initiate contact, or how, only you know what you are comfortable with.

TheMidnightOwl

You could ask him if there are any specific kinds of touch that he would find comforting and supportive and that you’d like to offer that to him to show your care and affection. Like perhaps holding his hand while you sit together, rubbing his shoulders/forearm/feet, patting his back, etc. And asking yourself what would feel natural to you.

Nature_Lover_

@Gallowglass You and I have only had the privilege of knowing one another this site for a brief time and I want to say I’m grateful we’ve connected and I truly feel you have a good heart and are an incredibly self aware and thoughtful individual.
It hurts my heart to know the trauma you have experienced and the situation at hand now. Please know that you are not alone and that while we all make our own path and can ultimately decide what’s best for our own selves I commend you reaching out for advice and support! Additionally proud of you for being actionable in not only your own self care but the care you extend to others. I’m sorry for the loss of your mother and saddened to hear of your father’s current plight.

I married right after high school and divorced by 19. Over the years my mother in law remained like a mother to me! As a young mom she supported me in every way possible - watching my child while I worked, driving me to work when I did not have a car, she taught me how to clean and take care of my home, my partner and children and I mean to say she set the bar high. She was a hard working woman and yet never slacked within the home. Truly a different breed. ♥️ Words cannot express the depth of love and care she extended to my children and I.

I recently had the honor of bringing her home with me for end of life care. I played her favorite oldies, sponge bathed her, changed her clothes, fed her. I brought out all the photo albums to her bedside and we looked through each and every one together. I braided her hair and painted her nails. I gave her foot rubs and rubbed her whole body down with lotions after sponge baths. I slept in the hospital bed with her, she was unable to be left alone as she was scared and confused much of the time. I did my best to keep her laughing and I cuddled her. I big spooned her and cuddled her. I joked that I would send her a bill 🤣 which she and I thought was pretty comical.
She was a religious woman so I had the chaplain visit twice and call to do prayers for her over the phone. I read Comforting Bible experts to her.
Here’s the thing …. She didn’t ask for the morphine she was taking in the very end. She asked for cuddles! She would say, ‘rub me,’ and I would. I would just gently rub her back or drop anything I may have been doing to do that. 😭 😭😭😭
She passed away peacefully in my arms.

Not every person wants or needs touch to the degree that she needed and I needed it but I implore you to take this time to tell your father anything that needs to be said and to offer him anything he could find comfort in be it his favorite music, food, and perhaps touch to what ever degree you both feel comfortable.

There is no right or wrong way to say goodbye, to walk someone home, to show love and compassion.

I wish you the strength and comfort you deserve in this challenging and difficult time. Please don’t hesitate to message me if you need or want to talk.

♥️

Rezz

@Nature_Lover_
Just wanted to say I can't wait to meet you. You're an amazing soul.❤️ Next time you're in Nashville my friend.

Nature_Lover_

Grief therapy is also available! You may be able to enroll now. I know this is offered through hospice, hosparus -

@BrianL I’m deeply sorry for the loss of your young cousin and wish you the comfort and healing you deserve as well.

@TheMidnightOwl those are excellent recommendations.

Nature_Lover_

@Rezz I hope you meant to tag me! 💗💗 big thanks and I would love to connect. Appreciate your kind words.

CozyWolfy

I work in a nursing home and try to give hugs and hold hands when I can.. I know it can be a lonely place especially during these times.. I think emotional connection is equally important so if your uncomfortable with touch just talking with him im sure is very meaningful and soothing.

Nature_Lover_

@CozyWolfy that is so wonderful to read 💗

Gallowglass

Thank you all. I'm mulling. That's like mulletting. but with less hair.

I wasn't expecting the comment on grief therapy. What an interesting idea. Great food for thought. Thanks, all.

Nature_Lover_

@Gallowglass You are very welcome - I actually have had to clients who themselves were referred to try professional cuddling by their grief counselors.

blisscuddles

Closing the distance by just your presence even without touch at first may help ease into it. A small conversation, maybe sharing some great memories of you and your dad could possibly open the door to comfort through touch. Your heart is in the right place and that will lead you to what works best for you in your relationship with your Dad.
Peace and strength to you and comfort and healing for your Dad.

quixotic_life

@Gallowglass ~ 🫂🫂🫂

SleepySheep1

End of life care is such an under talked about topic in this country.

I am humbled by the love in these comments.

I can't even offer any coherent advice as I'm so moved, but this is an excellent thread.

I'll just leave this quote here.

biancalovecraft

I've made the mistake of distancing and going into denial, and I'm here to tell you to do everything you can to knock that off. If you lean into the pain, you can mourn properly. It will be intense but if you don't, it will come for you mercilessly, in places you don't expect it, for a really long time. Just being there and bearing witness is the most important part.
If you have the will to go beyond that, There are lots of ways you can create a comforting, supportive, intimate space with him if just reaching out to touch is too awkward, and It will be good for both of you, Even if it's overwhelming in the moment.
Some examples from my own experiences are feeding or tending to areas of the body that he can't reach on his own. When my own Grandfather was in the hospital, I would come in and bring him a milkshake and help him eat it, or ice chips if he couldn't. I felt so stupid that that was all I had to offer, but I know it meant a lot to him. There were a lot of moments that I didn't know the appropriate place to put myself between looking after him and respecting his privacy and dignity. I was also a selfish, hypersensitive 22-year-old who in addition to having some of that family obligation rage, could easily go hysterical just thinking of this stuff.
When he was obviously dying a week or two later, it all mattered much less.
I remember visiting in ICU, The surgery had failed and he had caught MRSA, I had to wear a full-length gown gloves and booties. the room was stuffy and miserable and he was delirious, hot, his feet looked a mess. I got him a fan, put lotion all over his face and limbs, ointment on the spots he'd been poked and prodded, cleaned up his feet. It was HARD. I had my own complicated feelings about the guy, and had never committed an act of service so intimate, or hard on me.
I'll never know if he was aware of my presence, and I sobbed The entire hour and a half home, and off and on through the rest of the night. I found out about a day and a half later that I wouldn't be seeing him again, and sobbed a lot more, But was so grateful to myself for working up the courage and maturity to be there with him, And I know it helped me heal properly. My regret, was that my attention up till then had been awkward and reserved.
My perspective today is that the closest you can get to Divinity is to serve and bear witness to the dying. It's funky that our culture has outsourced it to strangers.

Gallowglass

@biancalovecraft respect. thanks.

Nature_Lover_

@biancalovecraft I’m sorry you went through those tough experiences. All of which you expressed so respectfully and so beautifully. I learned in providing the care I did for my mom that hearing truly is the last thing to go - having never been solely responsible for providing such care I had heard that before and assumed it was just said for the benefit of loved ones who came to say goodbye ect. It’s true through and regardless the tremendous strength you showed by showing up and attentively caring for your loved one speaks volumes to the contents of your heart.
The milk shake got me though … we always brought my mom milk shakes When she was in the hospital and one of her sisters in particular usually always did it! The last once we brought her was a peach cobbler one at the hospital and her sister brought one to my house - a peanut butter one but by this time she could not longer eat. Here’s the thing - sometimes the rituals we do like, the milkshakes, the lotion and massages, ect. Sometimes that can be more about the giver than the receiver. In all actuality just being present with someone as they approach or make their transition is an honorable thing. It’s that which is truly FOR them. Just being there.

@SleepySheep1 I agree, it’s not always an open and available talk but I’m glad it is here because what greater place to talk about it than within a community dedicated to comfort by way of connectivity and cuddle “therapy.”

TheFunCartel

I have an easier time tending to dying loved ones because I was able to see pain early on from dying. When you grow up in a military environment during war time you see it first hand. My best friend next door lost his dad in Vietnam five days before his tour was up. I still remember seeing the big black Lincoln pulling up and two soldiers in full dress uniform getting out—even as kids we knew. When my dad left for his second tour I was 9 and my heart pounded every day from sheer fear the closer to coming home came. Back then casualties from war were way more common than recent wars because fighting was in closer quarters. So the possibility of loss was there 24/7. No kid should have to live in an environment of death but that is what it was like back then. Moreover, my dad was special forces so they were very much in the thick of it and it made the fear a living accoutrement because communication from him was sparse.

But what it did do is communicate the very tenuous nature of life and the need to connect before it is too late. I went to 8 funerals in one year during the war. Time with loved ones is a commodity in short supply. I have no problem or hubris about caring for a loved one. I have held hands, hugged, fed, wiped asses, and learned how to administer medications and I was the better for it. Connecting before you die is the beginning of the grieving process, but it eliminates the guilt.

Stop overthinking it @Gallowglass and do it. The past will fall away and what is left is far more beautiful. Do what you would want done for you in your final days. I know what it’s like to be in your own head—that is fear pushing you there. Be a bully to fear and just grab your father’s hand. Then brush his forehead. The more touch, the closer the two of you become. I have no doubt you will feel better about yourself and will make your fathers transition a better experience.

Gallowglass

Removing duplicate post.

Gallowglass

@FunCartel good stuff. thanks

UCpaaHVg6u0

I was privileged to have been my mother's caregiver for her final years. There were many cuddly moments. There were occasional travels, and on a few occasions I needed to walk her into women's restrooms and generally strangers were supportive and accommodating, which frankly surprised me. I spent many hours taking her to medical appointments, including a few on my own. We were joined at the hip for four years. It did become exhausting at times, and I did not have much time to myself at all. The thing that's strange is despite that, offers to help me seemed like an encroachment. I guess that's therapy stuff. So there some bumps, but it was a special time that I wouldn't trade for anything. I know that without my commitment, my mother would have needed to be in a care facility. My recollection of working in such places meant that I would do anything to prevent that. My mother had aphasia but she was able to convey much to me because I'd been with her while she still had some speech ability. She was a captive audience for my absurd sense of humor, but her laughter signaled to me that she appreciated it. We had built an apartment for her in my sister's house. She would come home from her law office and we'd be bookends on either side of Mom, cuddling and watching her shows, letting my sister catch her up about everybody upstairs. I hadn't felt that closeness since childhood, and not again until I came here. Years earlier, my father had a rapid descent into dementia, a vicious form called Lewy Body dementia, we suppose. His wife had put him in a nursing home. I would drive up from out of state each Sunday just to feed him. He couldn't talk, and it's doubtful he knew who I was, or who anybody was. I needed to do it for myself. This was the only way that I could get closure. I hadn't been the ideal son in my teen years, and I carried much guilt. This time spent was important, and I'm grateful that the opportunity was given to me. It's not like I felt absolution for being crappy as a kid. That was something I needed to work out elsewhere. It just brought home how short and precious time is to spend with anybody you love. I certainly don't regret time spent with them in their final years, even if it was difficult doing it at the time.

Gallowglass

@UCpaaHVg6u0 I was the one that got called if mom had fallen. I know from her passing, some of what I have in store. I also was hospice through 5 years of cancer with my pet lab. The guilt thing is weird. No tools in the toolbox. I appreciate your comments and sharing. Thanks.

JohnR1972

@Gallowglass
“But underneath it all, I love my dad and I want to be there for him. I just don't know how to begin…”

I feel for your situation. I lost my dad about 7 years ago to a combination of Alzheimer’s and Diabetes. Both of my brothers and I offered to have him move in with us but our sister (our oldest sibling) had legal control over his medical decisions and she chose to put him in a low quality nursing home close to where she lived.

I visited him when I could which was not all that often due to the distance. Growing up, he was “old school” and never the type to show much affection or any emotion for that matter. There were times I visited him that, even though he was awake, I really don’t know if he recognized me because he was so silent. Other times, he was more of his old self and we had some good conversations on those days.

Because he was never the “touchy feely” type, our touch was pretty limited to me putting my hand on his shoulder while standing next to his bed or giving him a hug when I arrived or was about to leave.

I don’t really have any advice other than to say start small with things like putting a hand on his shoulder or forearm and see how he responds.

@Gallowglass

"I guess I'm not looking for heartfelt encouragement."

Yes, you are, and that's okay. Don't deny yourself the desire to connect. I've read tons of books and the best books are another human's perspective. You can take it with a grain of salt or you can apply their experience to your's and build character from it but also taking a grain of salt will build your steadfast. Double-edged swords are a motherfcuker.

I know it's rude to try and relate in conversation. It devalues the experience. It's this dance (which is cringe) of, "one-upping." Also, unsoliticitied adavice is also unwelcome and me writing this is hypocritcal (another dance).

Here's my unsolicticed advice that I can relate to about a Father: You're going to be good, homie. We always work shit out.

I'm just going to simplify this. Grief will take control of you and put you in places of reflection that you probably aren't comfortble with if you allow it. You can compartmentalize all you want, but there's going to be a day when it just hits you. Regret, behavior, character, it all becomes real and you will feel it. There's no escaping anything and there's no, "sugar coating," it. Just feel it. You'll be a better person in the end.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice.

Gallowglass

Nothing is unsolicited, since I did post. I'm grateful for the responses.

I did hospice for my dog for 5 years and held her when she passed.
I went through years of this with my mom. So I know to expect confusion and grief,

There isn't anything "I don't want" about your replies. Feel free. What I am specifically looking for, and have been grateful to receive, are the thoughts about seeing beyond the grief, to my needs and my father's needs. To putting myself out there. To avoid some regret. To be more resilient when my dad goes. To have him experience love in this time, and physical contact, which old folks don't get enough of.

I've received so much spiritual healing and physical healing, that's been manifesting since I took-up cuddling. I want to bring some of that to him before he leaves. I have some regrets about not being there more, for my mom. I know how scared she was at the end. I would like to have more tools, more perspective, on how people here, have related to incorporating physical touch/embracing of their loved ones, in spite of the impending loss.

The one about getting grief counseling beforehand, has been a really interesting concept, though it frightens me.

Thanks, all.

My Mom told me, after beating cancer and getting pneumonia a few months later, "I beat cancer, but this is going to kill me," and it did. I wish I hugged my Mom more (she's in my profile pic). My Dad f***ed me off and I regret not trying harder. Just do your best, man. That's really all you can do.

If you ever want a chat about this shit, I'm DM'ing you my number just in case. I could use a chat myself.

waynewv

I just finished a long comment on the death post and now I see a “Dad” post.
I lost my dad when I was 20, and my family was not the hugging type or evening saying the word “love” I never heard my mother or father say. I love you and the men never showed any type of affection to another male. Over the years it took me a long time to hug another person. The one big thing I regret is not telling my dad I loved him, he had a massive heart attack and died instantly so time to say it then.
So I would highly recommend if your dad is still alive let him know how you feel !!!!

Gallowglass

Hanging out with Dad. Thanks for all the food for thought. Especially the voices that said, just stop procrastinating (in my own words). For what it's worth, I feel Blessed. Thanks to everyone.

quixotic_life

Oh yay!! Hope it's going well!! 💓

PeopleLikeUs

I am reading a book right now by bell hooks called "The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity and Love." I'm only halfway through and can say that it's already light years beyond any book I've ever read about men. She has also expanded on everything you mentioned in your post. I don't expect to spend more than a week reading it. It's short, to the point, and easy to read.

I was lucky to have been cuddled, kissed, and hugged by my father and I could crawl into bed with him whenever I wanted. I think my Dad really got that because his father died when he was 15. My father died when I was 17.

I think in retrospect the greatest form of healing has come from other men. I have always been the one to initiate physical contact (...and I'm intuitive about that) with men. I have done groups with men mostly through The California Men's Gathering and led divorce recovery groups. With your background and experience, you have a lot to offer other men.

I would pay close attention to your father's needs at this point by capitalizing on what you have more than what you think you might want. If he's not privy to touch, go for what the two of you have developed. I would paraphrase the following 6 ways of saying "I love you" by Thich Knat Hahn (RIP). 1) I am here for you. 2)I know you are there and it makes me very happy. 3)I know you suffer and that is why I'm here for you. 4) I suffer, please help [In other words, provide him the opportunity to reach for you]. 5) This is a happy moment [Point out and make reference to every happy moment you have together]. 6) You are partly right [Even if you feel he's wrong. Try to convey that you hear him by echoing back what he says to you]. If you can weave these ideas into conversations with your father, you'll be surprised at his response.

In doing some of these things you'll be able to enhance your relationship without trying to change anything but rather, accepting where the two of you are in the here and now.

"At the center of your being, you have the answer; you know who you are and you know what you want" - Lao Tzu