"The origin of cuddling"

"The origin of cuddling ... gave some beasts an evolutionary edge. Living in tree holes and burrows, out of sight of hungry reptiles, brought mammals into close physical contact. That shared warmth was a boon to offspring that often have difficulty staying warm on their own. Staying safe led to staying warm, locked in through natural selection as a behavioral trait that has made mammals more mindful parents than some of the terrible reptiles roaming the world. Affection and survival have become intertwined."
-- Riley Black, The Last Days of the Dinosaurs

GreatHornedOwl

That sounds quite reasonable. However, to state it as if it were a proven fact is, to say the least, rather questionable.

By the way, some fish, most crocodilians, and virtually all birds are excellent parents.

Arguably, anything that takes place prior to human history is going to be somewhat speculative. But Black is a very well-esteemed author in the field and I give her the benefit of the doubt. Small spaces would necessitate touch, touch does provide warmth, and warmth would be beneficial to young.

GreatHornedOwl

Yes, but to suggest that "affection and survival have become intertwined, seems a stretch.

Why? An endothermic creature that was struggling at an early stage of development to maintain its body temperature would have a lower chance of survival without touch. And I can't see why touch between an animal and its young would not constitute affection. A behavior can be both emotional and have physical benefits as well

SunsetSnuggles

Cool excerpt, thanks for sharing!

~ Sunset Snuggles

GreatHornedOwl

That's all very true, but stating that you can't see it, is not a very good argument. Because "A behavior can be both emotional and have physical benefits" does not mean that it does. There's a big difference between Can and must.

CuddleDarlyng

@GreatHornedOwl

As a lover of all animals, the "terrible reptiles" comment ruffled my feathers too😂

While Black's conclusion is interesting, it does make sense that endothermic animals learned that cuddling is beneficial from a survival standpoint

GreatHornedOwl

@CuddleDarlyng - You're absolutely correct. It makes sense, but making sense doesn't make something true. For a lot of human history, it made sense that diseases were caused by bad air. It made sense that bleeding a patient could cure him. It made sense that the earth was flat. It made sense that the earth was the center of the universe. It made sense that heavy objects fall faster than light ones. The list of things that make sense but that are actually false, could go on for pages.

CuddleDarlyng

@GreatHornedOwl
you're right, of course. I was trying to be diplomatic

achetocuddle

@CuddleDarlyng Thank you for being diplomatic! So Darlyng isn't in your username for nothing!

Thanks to all posters on this thread for being diplomatic, thoughtful and interesting. I enjoyed this thread.

CuddleDarlyng

@achetocuddle thank you😊 diplomacy is generally more well recieved than intellect in a female, according to my personal upbringing. It's a hard behavior to overcome, and in many cases it's the right choice that allows me to stay in the background and unnoticed. I have an extraordinary person in my life that is helping me overcome that, and I'm hoping that law school will further beat that tendency out of me and help me to be diplomatic without also silencing my voice. 😅

To that end, I must politely disagree with @GreatHornedOwl that "virtually all birds are excellent parents." In my experience most birds are terrible parents. Why do you think ducks and geese have so many babies? Evolutionarily speaking, they know that most of their offspring will not reach reproductive age. Many prey animals follow the model of "create as many offspring as possible so that at least a few will survive and reproduce." The majority that don't survive supply the food chain. There are of course many "good bird parents" such as raptors and many parrots, and perhaps some seabirds (penguins too, of course🥰), I'm only disputing the "virtually all" part of the statement. 😉
Crocodilians are more of an exception to that parenting rule and truly fascinating for it. There are also other species of lizards and snakes that exhibit good parenting behaviors too, but the crocodiles are the most charismatic, thus well known example.

(Sorry for nerding out. ❤️ you guys.)

DaringSprinter

@CuddleDarlyng: I love it. Nerd out all you like!

The phrase "terrible lizards" has to be taken in context. That section of the book is looking at the world from the POV of small mammals, for whom the dinosaurs were fearsome and terrible.

CuddleDuncan

From the OED:

terrible
A. adj.
1. Causing or fit to cause terror; inspiring great fear or dread. Also: awe-inspiring, awesome.

TheFunCartel

I hesitate to put too much stock in drawing parallels between humans and animals. Animals develop traits through environmental conditioning over time and are not making cognitive decisions on affection. They may show affection instinctually but it is really not a choice they made to protect the breed, it is animalistic self-preservation dictated by the environment they find themselves in. For example, animals in protected refuges are less fearful of humans there than in the wild. Anyone who has ventured into a national park can often see that first hand.

Humans, on the other hand, are not necessarily affectionate. They develop and choose affection. We even evaluate who we will cuddle, because if you choose poorly, you may cuddle a terrible predator of your own species. Choice and evaluation are key differences.