Sentiment check: Pro Cuddler moderators

Mark

I'm interested in the community sentiment around whether we should be open to considering moderator nominations of Professional Cuddlers. Please can you vote in the poll.

In such a scenario, they would have to send a disclosure document to their clients before meeting. This would attempt to address concerns around the potential of a perceived power imbalance. In addition, if a client were to report them, this would be handled by another moderator and likely escalated to me personally.

cde123

I was surprised when I learned that the moderation panel doesn’t include a pro. Enthusiast mods are great, but there should be representation for providers, too. Pros go to other pros for issues but the decider is always an enthusiast, which seems odd to me.

JohnR1972

There is a case to be made both ways. I’m guessing that is why the vote currently stands at 9 yes, 9 no and 1 undecided. I would love to see those numbers broken down by pro / enthusiast status. If I had to guess, the majority of yes votes are from pros and the majority of no votes are from enthusiasts but that is pure speculation on my part.

SuperManCuddles

Pros as moderators, good idea according to my opinion.

This is just my opinion and it might be an unpopular one but if I remember correctly, I thought this website was built on enthusiasts. It was the heart and soul of the website having to conduct a poll to see if pros should be moderators is a red flag because it’s already a known power imbalance.

sillysassy

@mark I appreciate your transparency and desire to do what the community needs.

I think having professionals on the moderator team is a good idea if they have the same expectations as an enthusiast moderator.

(They have been here for a determined time, seem to be kind and impartial, thoughtful in their ideas and show that they have the desire for platonic touch like you are intending for the site.)

What I personally would love to see is a more balanced ratio of men to women on the Mod team. Seeing as how there are a greater number of female pros it would make sense for that demographic to add to the possibilities.

I REALLY REALLY appreciate the change in policy that includes the moderator sending out a disclosure form to ensure power imbalance doesn’t become an issue.

Thank you!! 😊

Not to derail and therefore spoiled….

To @lonelytauros statement…. I agree that enthusiasts is how the site was formed but also so thankful that @mark is willing to help the site Morph into whatever it needs to be to help humans connect with humans…. Maybe there could be two separate sites???

I'm not sure if you can call it a power imbalance. Pros took root here because there is a demand for them from enthusiasts. Based on what I have read here, if the site was just enthusiasts, no one would be getting a lot of cuddles.

Hamtaro1

My simple answer is yes. I would say to keep decisions fair by having a split of 50/50 between enthusiasts and pro moderators. Mark you would split a decision when a vote were to be tied.

My fear is tensions between pros and enthusiast moderators would grow because pros would be a majority female and enthusiasts would be a majority male. A long as those discussions do not bleed onto the forums unintentionally this change would be beneficial to the site over all.

UREverything

Do any of the mods, forum posters have a financial reason to direct the flow of what is acceptable and what is not? Should those that make money from the actual site be on the panel?

_marC

💯
I'm for the diversity, power to the pros! I'm sure it gets heavy to swing that hammer around. Let's let the worthy lift it as well

TheFunCartel

As with anything including death and taxes it depends who it is. There are some that would be great and some that would be appallingly bad.

SunsetSnuggles

Since the (currently) 42% of people voting No don't seem to feel comfortable enough to comment on this thread, I'll take a deep breath and say it...this seems like a sticky situation to open up.

Some very vocal Pro's seem to share an us vs. them mentality toward enthusiasts, especially men, and I think if a Pro were to be placed in a position of power, they would have to be chosen extremely carefully to avoid bias (in support of fellow Pro's) and sexism.

The financial facet, as @BgstickTeddyBea mentioned, is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

I do think the female Pro's have a no nonsense vibe to them which would make for excellent moderators, and frankly I would appreciate seeing more of that. I do appreciate the idea of diversity and equality, this just seems like dangerous ice to tread.

For the record, I have never hired a Pro (thus obviously never had a negative experience with one). I'm just looking at this scenario from what I've witnessed on the boards.

~ Sunset Snuggles

TheFunCartel

Maybe create an ombudsman position for a pro. The problematic part of this equation is pros are essentially small businesses and the site is like an eBay to sell their services. As a moderator they are now the service and part of eBay at the same time. I think long and careful consideration should be given to the pitfalls of this.

pmvines

The only way to truly have mods who are completely neutral with no pretense or dog in the fight is to have a moderating team that has no connection at all to the site . Since that is not likely to happen, I see no reason for pros as well as non pros to be mods . I am sure they are just as capable as being objective. It is irrational and silly to imply that they arent. I am sure that admin wouldn't consider somebody who they feel isn't capable of representing the site appropriately.

TheFunCartel

I am sure that admin wouldn't consider somebody who they feel isn't capable of representing the site appropriately.

@pmvines Yet we all know this hasn’t been the case in a couple of instances in the past as far as the “appropriately” part goes.

SunsetSnuggles

@pmvines posted: "The only way to truly have mods who are completely neutral with no pretense or dog in the fight is to have a moderating team that has no connection at all to the site ."

This would absolutely be ideal, as everyone has friends and connections here and could be biased, for sure.

Adding financial gain into the mix clearly changes things, though. What if one of your clients is reported? You make money off of them, do you really want to ban them? This is ripe for a "dirty cops"-type scenario, unfortunately.

~ Sunset Snuggles

TheFunCartel

Just brainstorming here but wouldn’t a committee of 2 or 3 pros be better than making one a moderator? You could take a report and then send the report to these 3 pros with names and places removed and get their response to it as to what they feel needs to happen and then our regular mods can make final decisions based on TOS and pro input. Less chance of dirty pool going on. The possibility of financial motivation by a pro who is a moderator is not a good look for the site if something goes wrong. What if one were to be charged with a sex work crime and it comes out that they were a moderator of the site? How would that look for legitimate pros and the site?

stormydaycuddle

Good question. I almost clicked no but it's not because I think pros are shady. The opposite. We see all sides of the cuddling world. Some of us are deeply invested in this community. My no vote (which I didn't go through with) would have been because of selecting a pro may be hard. Personally, I would nominate a few. I would also skip town if the pro was too...serious? Idk if that's the right word because people who have done wrong deserve to be banned but then there's the forum side. I've gotten into fights with people I WOULD LOVE to see banned but that doesn't mean they deserve it for having a different opinion. She grumbles into her morning cup of tea

Yes, I think pros are under represented.

No, I don't think pros are sketch (they won't cause a Charlie Sheen like drama) @FunCartel This site does a good job of preventing that. I saw one inappropriate pro pop up and within two seconds she was gone... it was so fast MY head almost spun. So... while mods can't tackle everything they do try.

Also, I think a pro on the up and up would be super on top of making sure the integrity of this site is held up for those like them. So that would be a plus. I really want to start listing names of the good pros to counteract the "Pros are possible sex workers." Enthusiasts have been in the past. So that a pro could tarnish the site comment should be void. Maybe not entirely void but there is a possibility in the enthusiast realm too.

Yes, I think a pro can do it. I have a few suggestions. Not that anyone is asking.

Yes, I think some pros care about this site as a whole. It would need to be one of them.
I'd be careful because even the most well meaning one of us has dealt with some things and I think some could possibly be a little trigger happy when the topic requires thought.

Mods have to hold back their personal opinions more and a lot of us who engage with this site may have a few...personal opinions. That's true of enthusiasts too though.

Objectivity, and a sense of humor is probably what I'd look for. The second one being just as important as the first. (return to my skipping town comment).
I've got two names. No they aren't me... And I've got one I'd probably bail on the forums over. There's my 2cents or more like 1.45$

cde123

@SunsetSnuggles I would imagine pros are swayed more by an incentive to create a safe and platonic environment than financial takings from clients, who are plentiful on this site. Many pros even deactivate because on the balance the financial incentives don't make enough sense. That said, it may be better to choose a more independent pro to avoid cartel behavior.

@FunCartel I don't think it's realistic to hide case details from mods or a panel since decisions should be made with full context including profiles, messages, pictures, and previous incidents. Plus, wouldn't having a separate panel be more work for everyone?

Lisa123

Unsure here as well. I think it would be difficult to find the appropriate pros. I do, however, think there should be a female presence in the mods. I like the idea that @FunCartel mentioned about a pro panel. Maybe there's a comparable solution?

I will add , that I have only been here since November, but I think the mods are doing a great job. The fact that this is even being brought up for discussion is wonderful.

TheFunCartel

@cde123 Read carefully. I didn’t say to withhold details from mods but the names should be withheld from a pro panel because it could be a client of theirs that they like or maybe someone that insulted them during a session. A pro panel would only offer input, not make decisions. A client of theirs does poison the waters of objectivity.

stormydaycuddle

@FunCartel I think if it's a client the pro should automatically pass to another mod without comment. That should be a rule.

MissAdventurous

Intriguing -- yes, I'm open to it, if it's a right fit. 💕

PeopleLikeUs

I don't see this poll as anything but a gathering of agreement. Of course, it's going to come out a yes vote. Anyone posting this poll knows that. This feels like more of an announcement.

I would be in favor of a pro moderator. They would have to recuse themselves in any case involving a client just like an enthusiast should regarding someone they have cuddled with or become true friends with on this site.

CuddleWho

I voted "I'm not sure."

I think the current moderators do a good job overall; however I personally do perceive a little bias and a level of personal investment in their moderating ability and choices that is very distasteful. While in principle it would be great to have a pro moderator, many of the potential pro moderators would just escalate that bias and personal investment to a whole new level. And the contrapositive also holds: many of the pros who I think would make the best moderators wouldn't be interested in doing it.

So in sum my real feelings are "Probably not, but if you find a great candidate, sure."

@PeopleLikeUs

Of course, it's going to come out a yes vote.

Uh... why so sure? I almost voted no. Currently no votes are over 40%... doesn't exactly seem like a landslide for yes.

I would like to comment however, I feel I need to digest this and come back to it with my opinion.
I’ll log on with my laptop to address my thoughts either tonight or tomorrow.

netrunner

To correct some misconceptions:

@cde123 While there can be speculation, my personal view is a Pro hasn't been previously been considered for a Mod due to potential professional conflicting priorities and an imbalance of power compared to other Pros. The same could be said for Non-Pros, but since there is a financial difference it's a stronger case against Pros. If a Pro/Mod has to send a disclaimer document like the rest of the Mods when booking a session stating the other person is meeting with them not as a Mod and they are free to report should something happen and expect the report to be fairly handled by another Mod or Admin, then this, along with some other rules we have, could open up a Pro being a Mod.

@Hamtaro1 Currently we have 3 male Mods (myself, @Sideon, and @Shake49), 1 woman Mod (@Babichev) who is not a Pro, and 2 Admins (@Mark and @Gary) with Mark being the owner of the site. It's being considered to add 1 Pro as a Mod, which even with the drastic rise in male Pros on the site over the last year, odds are would be a woman Pro. Also, while the Mod team does have discussions on certain matters and we can present our side or view of something to help with a discussion, ultimately the final call on matters of the site is still on Mark. Any Pro who would be joining us would be doing so mostly to help with the existing work of addressing the 40-60 daily reports coming in and monitoring the forum.

@BgstickTeddyBea No, any Mod (myself, Sideon, Babichev, and Shake49) does not make any money from being a Mod; Only Mark and Gary make money from the site. A Pro becoming a Mod would still only be making income from sessions and still have to pay the booking fee, but they would not be paid directly from the site.

@SunsetSnuggles I appreciate your detailed input on this! I will say, when I first started as a Mod years ago it was very much a 1-strike and you're out... I did A LOT of bans daily. After taking a step back for personal reasons outside of the site then returning, the mindset for the role changed to be a bit less harsh, giving Warnings more on certain issues and under certain circumstances over banning. Unfortunately it took me awhile to adjust to this and I could see most Pros still expected instant bans for majority of issues reported. So if a Pro is chosen, setting aside that instant ban for everything mentality will be one of the main obstacles they will need to adjust to. There are still plenty of things I will instant ban people for, but there are guidelines we follow on when it might be better to give a Warning instead. The good thing is, when in doubt Mods do discuss issues and for advice on how to address them so it's not like we're given a list of guidelines then left to figure it out.

@stormydaycuddle I liked your post and specifically the part saying "Mods have to hold back their personal opinions more and a lot of us who engage with this site may have a few...personal opinions. That's true of enthusiasts too though." As I mentioned to SunsetSnuggles, I think the biggest obstacle for any Pro joining as a Mod will be holding back from the "instant ban for everything mentality", which is common, but possible. I think we have some good Pros who could separate their investment as a Pro and their role as a Mod to be a good Mod. I won't list them here, but I'm sure if Mark does take in recommendations their names would show up on the list.

@Lisa123 We do have Babichev as a Mod and she's been here awhile.

@PeopleLikeUs Not an announcement, but more for hearing the opinions of the community if it would be accepted should we decide to consider looking into adding a Pro as a Mod. If it was simply announced and a sudden flood of posts in outrage voicing concerns not previously thought of or considered, then that would be a hard thing to backpaddle, but to first ask before investing too much time into it since it can be a hot subject for some is the better alternative.

@Mman Mod don't have to stop booking sessions with Pros, but we do have to send them a disclaimer document stating if an issue comes up and they need to report us that another Mod will handle the report and that Mods cannot receive any discounts or get free sessions just for being a Mod.

EDIT:
Removed the editing so those in dark mode aren't blinded lol

SunsetSnuggles

@netrunner I appreciate the time you took to respond to everyone, and your even keel.

~ Sunset Snuggles

Lisa123

@netrunner Thank you! I was not aware @Babichev is a mod. Good to know. Appreciate the in depth response to our questions/concerns. I'm sure there's a lot to take into consideration that hasn't even been brought up on the forum here

dave31415

I thought I posted already but don’t see my post. I don’t see why there is even an issue. If someone is trusted enough to be a moderator, you wouldn’t expect there are going to be many reports against them. And I’d assume that you would have a policy that no moderator is going to handle a complaint against themselves. So I don’t see why a cuddler would need to alert their customers that they are a site monitor. The worst thing I think is that the moderator might see the report against themselves but, is that really much of a problem?