Determining inappropriateness

Sounds easy enough, doesn't it? Just follow the rules, clearly stated, and inappropriate behavior is minimized, if not eliminated altogether.

I'm going to suggest not only is it not easy to determine, but that it is actually far more complex that many think, and that broad rules can only be a guide, not a guarantee.

First, the clearest rule-breaking inappropriateness, the one responsible for most getting into trouble on CC.....sharing personal info prior to a booking. This is easy to understand, providing revenue for CC, and keeping things formal until there is an approved meeting. It is inappropriate to send your e-mail, phone number, IG or FB, to a pro or a client, unless you are doing so after a booking proposal has been received and accepted. Then it makes sense.....we need to make sure that we have directions, a meeting place, etc for the upcoming appointment. But the action deemed inappropriate, the sharing of info, is fairly black and white. I was once flagged for doing so, as I did it prior to bookings being accepted, but without intent to harm. I was reprimanded, and I have followed the rules closely ever since. That was easy :)

But the next issue, the one that crossed most of your minds when reading the discussion title, well, this one is far less clear. Nor should it be.

We hear all the time, especially in this forum, that this is a platonic site, as though that itself is clear. I started a thread about the complexities of that term recently. Thus, anything remotely sexual is meant to be forbidden, right? Completely inappropriate, yes? Well, that, my friends, is a tall order to determine! Are words and/or pictures that for some, conjure up images of sexual connection inappropriate? Or is there a gray area? Are photos clearly portraying cleavage, or scantily-clad scenes of frolic, inappropriate? Or a tongue licking lips? Or as the inexplicable fashion these days, tongue simply wagging from one's mouth?

Or how about innuendo in the wording of the profile? The kinds of openness that the reader can interpret to their imagination's intent?

My point is simply this: "Inappropriateness" encompasses a large area, much of which is gray. One could do a fairly simple study to determine which profiles receive the greatest number of inquiries, in the shortest amount of time, and compare the pictures posted to see if there might be a connection.

But moving on to the real substance of this issue......what happens in the context of a cuddling session. Between consenting adults. What is inappropriate, bearing in mind the "clearly" stated rules of the site.....what, exactly, is sexual behavior? Is it the touching of erotic areas on each other's bodies? Is it cuddling without clothes on? Is it kissing? If your answers to these questions were a resounding "YES!", let us explore further. What about kissing on the forehead? Or the cheek? Or a greeting kiss on the lips but with a closed mouth? Those seem to be non-sexual to me.....but to others, it may be too intimate, and arousing. But isn't it possible that the touching of non-erotic parts of the body can be arousing too? More for some folks than for others? And isn't it possible that the touching of even erotic parts of the body can be non-sexual, and non-arousing? And isn't it also possible that cuddling without clothes can be non-sexual for some? While any kind of cuddling, even fully clothed, can be sexual and arousing?

This is the crux of the matter.....it isn't easy to determine what's inappropriate from the outside. If two consenting adults have the matter in hand, and their personal boundaries are not violated, perhaps, just perhaps, it's not inappropriate.

I already hear the objections! Wait, CC is explicitly a non-sexual site! Even if two consenting adults agree to engage in sexual activity during a cuddling session, it is inappropriate! What say you to that?!?

Here's what I say......sexual energy is present in much of our sessions, even when there is limited, or no touching. Perhaps our asexual friends in the community will disavow such a suggestion, but many will understand what I am expressing. We cannot eliminate our imagination, our visceral responses, or the enlivening universal life force that sexuality is part of.....in our cuddling sessions. Nor should we want to. Sometimes that play, that gray area, where controlled sexual energy is, produces the most delicious goose bumps. Or electrified hair standing on end. Or pulsing energy, filled with love, traveling throughout our bodies. Sexual energy is part of all that......and is incredibly enlivening as well! Inspiring. Heart-pumping.

Maybe, just maybe, we can become comfortable with the paradox that is being human....an embodied spirit.....a being filled with confusion, empathy, love, and goodwill....intermixed with a hormone-filled animal body....and just try to figure it all out as we go along this incredible journey. We will make mistakes. We will learn about our bodies, and the boundaries of others. Men may learn how to slow down, enjoy the touch of the goddess, not self-shame about their eager visceral responses......while gifted women learn how distant men can become from their intentions once their bodies are aroused, and help them return to balance, with a knowing and loving presence.

All this is possible, in the context of the incredibly rich cuddling journey, even while we walk the tightrope of appropriateness, trusting our instincts and intuition, to guide us along this complex path. Rules may provide some security, but their application may differ as they're applied uniquely and artistically.

Grist for the mill, hey?

Comments

  • @beaubliss thanks for the DM making me aware of this one. LOL. Response coming... No its not negative.

  • I think sexual in the blurred area is whatever it means to the two people cuddling. Pro cuddlers have to toe a much stricter line in my opinion. I've had people try to kiss my forehead etc. or actually do so and my reaction isn't great. Between enthusiasts ... more power to you if its consenting. I find that while ears aren't a zone for me I don't like it because it feels too.... idk. And I think that's where I'm going to land on this one.

    Enthusiasts consent, consent, consent... have fun

    Pros same BUT don't break the rules or the law. In the sense no fetish, no bikini zones.... etc. Maybe that's simplifying it by saying don't break the law and whatever people are comfy with but that's what I'm thinking right now.

    Has different meanings for different people. I suppose making sure the basic lines are clear is what matters.

    Ty, for being kind earlier and ty for the DM. Hugs.

  • I think you're great, @stormydaycuddle ! I love your passion and your determined way of expressing yourself. We need to create environments where people are safe responding with respectful words. I completely get that pros, especially women, need to be clear on their boundaries. I just wanted to begin a conversation about the energy that may arise even within said boundaries, and where energy may not outside those same boundaries.

    As I said, being human is complex.....we are filled with emotion that sometimes only arises within the context of specific energy. The task is to know thyself, be aware of where comfort is, and where it is not......and communicate accordingly :)

  • The rules on this site is pretty clear. No kissing, no touching of certain areas, and wear a minimum amount of clothes. What two consenting enthusiasts do shouldn't be intervened by the cuddle police, but pros also have to follow local laws since money is involved.

  • You miss my point entirely. I know what the rules say. I know what behavior, in general, is permitted. I am simply trying to encourage a thoughtful dialogue concerning very complex issues.

    So, in your own words, for example....."No kissing", really? Isn't it a specific kind of kissing? The kissing of the hand is certainly allowable, or the forehead, always with the consideration of consent, yes? It's not clear, nor simple, @Mike403 . There is a whole gray area that some of us might feel is fun to discuss! Especially the sapios in the community....

    To me, this seems exactly like the place to discuss the energy surrounding intimacy, and how Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs may all be met through cuddling.....

  • Kissing the hands and kissing the forehead is not "certainly allowable" - pros are well within their rights to report you for either, since the client terms say quite plainly, "no kissing is allowed."

  • Yeah. It isn't up for discussion on this site. On a dating site, yes.

  • I don’t know what caused me to wander over to this part of the forums but @beaubliss i understand everything you are saying. It’s difficult to discuss these things because people have such rigid definitions of things, and most things(words) aren’t so clearly defined in our usage of words.

    I think the way people would display themselves are trying to convey a message. How it’s interpreted is not in their control at all. I may throw on a blue pinstriped suit with a crisp white shirt and a dazzling tie with a few colors splashed in. I may want to look fashionable, business minded, serious, powerful bit someone may look at me and think I’m scrumptious. I mean i am, but that’s not what i meant to do.

    Someone can post a fully clothed shoulder up picture with a bright smile and sleepy eyes and i may think that woman is gorgeous and sexy! She just wanted to look pleasant and happy.

    I may be walking with a lady, and attempting to help her through a crowd and may try to guide her by touching her back. She may interprets that as a caress or an attempt to touch her inappropriately. I’m just trying to say that it’s not that easy to define.

    I mean sometimes the things i say sound flirtatious, but i don’t always mean them that way. I just have over time developed a manner of speaking that others may not be familiar with.

    Maybe i missed the point and maybe i used bad examples but it’s the best i could come up with.

  • It's not simple, no matter how much you want it to be, @cde123 and @Mike403, though I get why you want it to be. Most men do. You want it to be black and white. Like the censors for TV in the '50's. This behavior is "bad" (inappropriate), and this behavior is not. "It's not up for discussion on this site" you say, smugly. It's easy to say such when you are so certain. I long to be certain sometimes......it's just always so much more complex.

    @cde123, "pros are well within their rights to report you" as "no kissing is allowed". Wow, even the TV censors allowed a kiss on the hand as a greeting! When I mentioned it, I said "always with consent". So why would it be reportable? It was not inappropriate. There was consent.

    My point is this: There are actions that may be inappropriate, that are just not reportable. Because the actions are not really actions......they are energetic. You may not like that term, because it doesn't lend to binary thinking. You cannot observe it physically; in fact, completely appropriate actions that you can observe MAY be inappropriate due to the energy, while observably inappropriate actions could be received and given completely appropriately due to a different kind of energy.

    I have a friend on this site who received a text from his favorite pro cuddler, letting him know that they will no longer be having sessions. She FELT his sexual energy. He was flummoxed! He literally did nothing, certainly nothing that can be reported. No unwanted touching. No requests for "extras". Nothing the rules forbid, period. I asked him about his feelings, and he indeed had feelings. He really cared for her, and he was really attracted to her. I told him that women, for the most part, are incredibly sensitive. They can feel your need without you saying or doing a thing. She sensed his longing, though he didn't want/ask to be sexual. For her, his DESIRE was inappropriate.

    Now, a completely different guy could possibly hug her tighter, maybe even be more affectionate, but not exude this desire, and be completely appropriate. It's not black and white! I told my friend that I could help him transform his desire into celebration....and that with a little work, he could become worthy of his favorites company. But he would have to be honest and candid with her, letting her know that he unconsciously brought that energy into sessions, and that he be honored to be given a chance to work on that.....with her help. It's a longshot, but she may welcome the challenge to help in his transformation. Most, if not all, men need this work and support.

    I have another friend on CC who actually did report a guy for inappropriate behavior. We talked about it. I encouraged her. He massaged her, but she felt his energy. She felt that he was grooming her. He didn't touch any forbidden areas, but she could feel he was right on the edge, and that he was wanting to arouse. She reported. Mods said he had over 50 appreciative karma, most all of whom mention "massage". They accepted her report, considered it an alert in case anyone else reported him being "inappropriate".

    It's a gray area.....massage is not forbidden, if consensual. Yet it's a perfect activity to slowly, almost unobserved, cross the line. I have another pro friend who shared with me about a massage in her session. She was asked, she consented, and he happened to be excellent. Was a certified massage therapist. She loved it. Then, at one point, his massaging hand slowly moved to her inner thigh. She calmly re-directed it without needing to say anything. He responded appropriately. She's an expert in dealing with male energy, liked him, and didn't feel threatened by his subtle energy shift.

    I could go on and on.....and the pros willing to discuss this could go on in way more detailed manner, probably talking about the bulk of their sessions, where it has become custom to sense energy and desire. THIS is what I was raising by this thread.....and THIS is what would benefit most through conversation.

    Is desire itself inappropriate? Can it be transformed? Is cuddling a perfect opportunity to connect us to that whole reservoir of unexamined energy? And can we learn to express it appropriately, or, as the alchemists did 800 years ago, learn to transform lead into gold?

  • edited August 2023

    The goal of the mods on this site is to keep things strictly platonic. If they tolerated certain actions whether or not the pro in question consented, guys will start to believe that they can do that with anyone. This is supposed to be a safe space where everyone is only here to cuddle. If you want a massage, go to Massage Envy.

    As crushed as I would be if a pro decided not to see me any more, they have the right to make that decision for any reason. If the client didn't do anything wrong, he still has an account on this site and can find another pro cuddler. It's probably best to space out sessions so they don't think you're getting too attached.

  • Also, if you constantly think about the person you were with when not in a session, that's not healthy. It's fine to look forward to your next session, but you aren't dating them. Platonic cuddling is supposed to put you in a relaxed state even after the session is over. If she senses that you are not being fulfilled the way that is intended here, she may stop having sessions with you.

  • @beaubliss I think you bring up an interesting topic and one that probably comes up quite a bit. It is a topic that people are afraid to discuss here I imagine. Things are rarely black and white. There are always many shades. I'm a big fan of giving massage myself so these issues do have to be addressed.

  • @jplemmon Thanks for your comment....yes, rarely black and white indeed :)
    And I think you're right about many not feeling safe to discuss here due to judgment......I have already received several messages from pros who want to discuss this topic more, but who don't want to engage in the forum. I think that's unfortunate; all in the community should feel safe to discuss such tender topics, as that is how we learn perspectives different from our own.

  • @beaubliss perhaps it's more that people don't want to leave their own personal feelings out there in the public forums.
    My personal circle is very small, not many know how I feel about some things, and this isn't something I'd leave lying around for random internet strangers to find.

  • @KaaGee You make a very good point.....I am a bit too trusting in assuming that a topic as sensitive as this should elicit candid responses; the internet is not a particularly safe space, certainly. I just love conversation within community, the more provocative the better!

  • @BeauBliss, this is a fascinating discussion -- thanks for starting it!!

    My thoughts here, and in a lot of similar situations, is this -- whatever happens behind closed doors between two (or more) consenting adults is no one else's business. I understand why the rules of Cuddle Comfort exist -- pros need to be protected from clients seeking services they don't offer. And, because exchanging sexual services for money is illegal in many jurisdictions, CC can't come anywhere near a suggestion that sexwork is being offered.

    And, I suspect in the vast majority of pro cuddle sessions, nothing like that is being offered. But, if both parties are consenting, how would I know? If a pro cuddler and a client decide to "take things a little further," and both are consenting -- they're not ever going to tell anyone about it. So while I don't think it happens often, I also don't think it never happens. That just seems unlikely, given human nature.

    Enthusiast sessions are different -- and to be clear, I've never had an enthusiast session, so I don't speak from experience. But without money changing hands, if two people decide to move from cuddling to something else, more power to them.

    But to @beaubliss 's original point, there's a huge gray area between purely platonic cuddling and sexual activity. I've had some cuddlers nuzzle their face into my neck, or vice versa. Is that truly platonic? I don't know. Did it feel good, did I really like it in the moment? Absolutely.

    Is it inappropriate by the rules of CC? Maybe. Will I do it again if I have the opportunity with a consenting partner? Again, absolutely.

    What's appropriate or inappropriate is up to the people involved. And unless one of the people disagrees on the level of appropriateness, CC will never know about it, and that's the way it should be. It keeps the private details of individuals private, and it keeps CC from any accusations of fostering illegal activities.

  • @WiserGuy3000 that is totally the reality 100%.

  • @beaubliss You have really put the truth out there. You're cordial and explain the reality that most won't touch. After reading this thread, I applaud you for the confidence to speak about it. I see and agree with your views on the subject.

  • Thanks, @DavidBiscuits01, it really means a lot to receive your acknowledgement......my hope is that this thread inspires others to reflect and perhaps dialogue on a subject filled with paradox :)

  • @beaubliss another reason one may not want to discuss such things publicly:

    Cuddler: when a cuddler does a thing it makes me feel a certain way which makes me want to do other things

    Queue cuddler's inbox: I'll do a thing for you! When can we get together! × 50

  • But @KaaGee , playing devil's advocate: isn't it beneficial that the people who want to do other things find each other? Because then they won't be bringing those things up to the rest of us.

  • @WiserGuy3000 people that want those other things will always find each other lol.
    What I was referring to is being able to openly discuss where your own personal lines may blur in an open forum, and how that would send all those creepy folks directly to your inbox to see if they could be the next one to "help" you find your way over that line.

  • @KaaGee I got it, that makes sense. Sort of a "give someone an inch, they'll try to take a mile" type things.

  • @WiserGuy3000 even worse, it's more like "In a given situation I might give cuddler X an inch." And then the inbox blows up with people crawling out of the woodwork wanting to take that mile.

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