@stormydaycuddle haha, those who think Nietzsche is a nihilist either didn't read his works or didn't understand him. He wanted to save humanity from nihilism. Enter my favorite philosophers, the absurdists whose take on the Sisyphean nature of life parallels my own outlook.
Thank you everyone for having this fun exchange with me, but alas, I am behind on work and though I would love to write a whole paper on how objective truth can not exist thus my report is ultimately meaningless, my employer would be rather displeased with me. As the dredge of society, I must make value for my corporate overlords less I be cast to the streets. I can't abide by this as I am creature of decadence and require excessive amount of pampering to function.
I loved that last line. I'm not tagging you because you're working.
I misread the subject line as, “Do humans actually have free wifi?”
(Also an important question.)
@stormydaycuddle love the way you think and would grab a coffee with you any day if the opportunity ever arises!! 🤗
Yes. But if the will if others is stronger or the person is unable to understand the importance of free will it does not matter.
@stormydaycuddle right!? I get so worked up when someone tries to shirk responsibility because they think nothing is their fault ....even the choices (or lack thereof) they made themselves. It's everyone else fault because.... 🤷🏻♀️
And I totally agree that being responsible for your life is absolutely freeing! Getting stuck in the belief that you have no control over anything is like a weight that just pushes you into the ground for life. It's a terrible way to live like you have zero control.
On the other hand....we definitely cannot control the universe simply because we want things to be a different way. Your example of genetics and illness is perfect! LOL I have so many illnesses that I would LOVE to be able to control (or make disappear altogether)....but alas, that's also not how this all goes.
We can control ourselves to an extent. Like, I can take a walk and propel my legs and have the desire to walk all the way to the east Coast....but my genetics and illnesses (and many, many other factors) will most likely make me unable to walk farther than my state line (and probably not even my city boundaries LOL) 😅
No matter how much we want something, we cannot control most things, besides ourselves. And even then, there's lots of limitations.
And yes! @MonkeyNeedsAHug I saw that in the title too 🤣
What about our bodies being "built" different thus impacting our decisions or choices?
Like what if say someone's body is abled, super strong, and more capable of being fast that they perhaps become some sort of athlete or going into careers that require that? Whereas another may be the complete opposite and no matter how badly they may wish to work as a pilot or whatever, they find they can't because they lack the physical or mental aptitude to do that... Similarly with someone who might end up with a mental illness or condition that results in them doing things they might otherwise never.
Doesn't have to be work related, just using that as an example. So wouldn't that point to there being at least in part a lack of free will, or our choices in part being predetermined?
@Lovelight Id call that circumstantial lack of choice. We all have choices that aren’t available to us. Free will is having autonomy, and thinking for yourself. It can effect the physical world but going back to acting or being acted upon. Free will would be the ability to make choices not what’s available to us to choose from.
@stormydaycuddle
What about people who mentally can't choose and makes choices that they otherwise never would, though? Like someone who say has a psychotic break?
psychosis is a separation from reality not thought. Free will is the ability to think, feel and choose not quite being limited/impaired.
Edit: because I read that wrong the 1st time.
Freedom and clarity are a little different. How you define free will is ultimately yours to choose though
If you’re thinking of it more like an impairment in reality. I’d actually then say we all have a different reality so you’d be right. none of us have free will in that case.
I do certainly feel like I do have free will and can be as silly as I wish in my ripened age... though, certainly, our choice of actions may depend on our upbringings, experiences, yes, health wise chemical balances, eg I work with people with dementia, and that illness may change a person's character, eg becoming not appropriate .. however, in a healthy brain intentions can be strong, but the individual certainly able to determine their actions : no excuse for criminal behaviour...
@MollyT I totally agree with that last line. Also, I answered your other question. Sorry it took a min.
Yeah @Lovelight I think bodies being built different and/or unable to do certain things (like someone who wants to be taller, but can't simply make their body "be" taller) is more of a circumstantial lack of choice. Not a Free will thing. I wish it was tho! 😜 Free will has to do with the choices you have available to you at the time, and if something doesn't exist as a choice, it's not free will. The way a person's body is made is not something they choose, like race, cognitive abilities (if they have impairment from birth), genetics, sex, etc. But dang, if we could choose ☺️
Regarding mental health and free will...that isn't exactly what it's called in that situation. It's more of "does the person understand the choices they are making" type of thing. Like, a person with cognitive disabilities might not be able to understand that animals are living things, and might sometimes pull their tails or ears (a little bit like it is with babies and toddlers), and we just make sure we supervise them better around the family pets and try harder to help them understand. 💗 Someone who can't understand their choices, may not be held accountable for bad ones they make....but it will make others aware that they need more supervision or possibly to get help at a facility in order to make sure they don't continue making certain choices that might be harmful to others.
Hope that helps! 🤗☺️
I have read about determinism and free will . I have read about people such as Paul Henri-Thiry , Baron D'holbach and Sam Harris . I think SH is listed as being an atheist and determinist . there is some video on Youtube about why he thinks all people , except him , should be vegan . The former was an atheist and was against religion . Based on what i read , he is described as having made voluminous writings against religion . Baruch Spinoza from the Netherlands was a thorough going determinist , or something like that . Again , based on what I read . I think he died in his forties .