What Safety methods do other pros use?

AngelCuddler11

As I'm sure we've all experienced those interesting, unfun moments, or times when we don't feel in a good situation when we meet new people or even those we already know who now want something different. So, I was wondering, what methods do others use for their safety or ways they use to filter the potentially bad from the good?

Sheena123

I ask for name, picture and meet in public first. During my public meeting with them, I let them know I have safety contacts that are aware of him, the address we are cuddling, when we start, when we end and I’ll usually throw in some info during our convos like how I have friends in law enforcement and friends that teach self defense. I have some moves I wouldn’t ever want to use but it doesn’t hurt to have that knowledge.
If you’re telling them about your safety contacts and they are uncomfortable with that, don’t continue. They don’t respect what you do for safety. Only cuddle with those that understand why you do what you do to stay safe.

JohnR1972

I ask for name, picture and meet in public first. During my public meeting with them, I let them know I have safety contacts that are aware of him,

Serious question, do you let potential clients know before they provide their name and photo that you will be sharing their personal information with multiple people (I.e. do they consent to having their information shared or do you notify them after the fact)?

CuddleDuncan

You might find this thread helpful:

• Meeting Somebody From The Internet – Safety Precautions

cuddlefaery

@JohnR1972 , I can't speak for OP specifically, but it's a fairly standard practice to have that info available to safety contacts in the event they need to go to the authorities on our behalves. The pros who treat this more as a business and have had training tend to have more formal agreements, including privacy clauses, that states how and when that personal info would be shared. For instance, I always kept mine in an encrypted and password secured folder that my safety contacts have access to in the event that they need to provide more info to the police. At the very least, I have always given name and meeting location to my contact(s).

For less formal businesses it may just be agreed to verbally, but if a pro really wants to cover their ass, they put it in writing and get it signed. But again, this is only the pros who actually do their homework on how to run a small business legally and ethically.

Morpheus

@JohnR1972 this is why I’m not okay with sharing DL info. That info or pics of clients DLs is gonna end up on other people’s phones and who knows what from there.

cuddlefaery

@Morpheus if you don't think that information isn't already out there and able to find by motivated individuals, you're kidding yourself. Names, addresses, phone numbers, emails, social network usernames, DL numbers, and partial socials are all easy to find even for a lay person. Spend a little money or know the right channels to use and you'll have full credit history, family members, work history, etc.

What exactly do you think a pro cuddler or their safety person are going to do with the basics beyond use them to confirm your identity or give them to police? Make a fake ID? That's not how they do it 🤣

And is trusting them with your name and DL number somehow more weighty than them trusting you with their bodily safety? Do you give your social security number to your insurance company? Do you trust the person on the end of the phone half a world away more than you trust the pro cuddler you are meeting in person to put your hands on?

Every time you have ever given your social, DL, or credit card number out over the past 40 years or so it has been entered into databases, and those databases have been shared and reshared ad nauseum. A lot of data privacy at this point is futile, so best practice has become how to utilize it transparently and effectively - like an obscured ID that proves who you are without revealing more than necessary, or the last 4 digits of your social/credit card number.

Sheena123

@cuddlefaery yea, I really doubt my husband is going to use one of my cuddlers pics to do something nefarious. It’s obvious that most pros that care about their safety, will want a photo and name. And if someone is pissed about the idea that my husband or my safety contact has that very limited info so I can have some type of assurance before being intimately smooshed into a stranger, that’s just sad….

cuddlefaery

@Sheena123 yeah, and I never saved the DL photos to my phone, either. Google isn't exactly known for their data privacy practices (lol), and I want to prioritize my clients' privacy as much as possible. Any forms I have saved as encrypted PDFs, and DLs have address and other info blacked out or covered with a finger, it's just pic, name, DL number. Then those are in a folder on a hard drive, not out in the ether other than however the client chose to send to me. Some chose to have me take a pic in person even, so least amount of transmittance over the net, and they did paper forms 🤷🏻‍♀️

I haven't yet had to have one of my safety people access them, but if they did they'd have to go to my actual computer, log in, put the password into the folder, and then another into the file. It's pretty damn secure, but still accessible if absolutely necessary. And as I trust both my people with my life, I know neither of them would be fooling around and risking my reputation or legal action if they used that data.

(If this sounds like overkill, I worked in hotels and with kids for decades - data protection of clients has been drilled into me since my teens haha)

I can understand client trepidation, I guess, but the way I look at it, with all the data breaches all my info is already on the dark web. Hell, someone tried to file for unemployment under my name at the end of 2022. You're not going to give your SSN to a cuddler ... if you host at home, they already know your address ... and everybody from the supermarket where you have a loyalty card on up already has your data. Stock up on identity theft protection, that's all you can do.

JohnR1972

It seems to me the concept of “implied consent” is being invoked here. A client does not explicitly agree for his photo and other information to be shared but because “he should have known” it was going to be shared, by providing the information he implied his consent. That is not how I thought consent worked on this site but I get it, safety of a pro is more important than consent of a client. 👍

BTW - my earlier question was just for clarification. I was not complaining about anyone taking steps to help ensure their safety. I understand the need for all cuddlers (pro, client, and enthusiast) taking whatever measures they deem appropriate to protect their safety. To some, that may mean asking for a copy of a government issued photo ID. To others, it may mean asking for a name, address and photo which is shared with safety contacts without the expressed consent of the person who may have thought their photo would only be seen by the cuddler they were communicating with.

I further agree it is a huge red flag for anyone to question the steps someone else takes to protect themselves. If a person doesn’t have bad intentions they shouldn’t mind their photo and other personal information being collected / shared with people they don’t know. This is about safety and safety is always more important than privacy. After all, “if you have nothing to hide you shouldn’t worry about privacy.”

I am a fit, healthy male who works out regularly so I am not worried about my physical safety. However, I am very concerned about the safety of my reputation as one false accusation of SA would irreparably damage my career and cost me my security clearance so I also take safety precautions to prevent false accusations.

In Indiana, it is legal to video record people without their knowledge as long as they are not in a location with a “reasonable expectation of privacy” such as their own home, a bathroom, locker room or a changing room at a clothing store. I asked an attorney if a visitor to my home had a “reasonable expectation of privacy” in my living room and he said no because it is my house and a living room is not typically a private area like a bathroom or bedroom.

Based on his legal opinion, theoretically I might have 3 hidden cameras in my living room. One that covers the front door and entry way. One that covers the couch and the 3rd with a wide angle lens in the corner that covers the whole room. I might record everything from the time I open the door until my cuddle partner leaves. If she goes to the bathroom I stay in the living room, in view of the camera so at least one of us is always being recorded and she can never accuse me of doing anything inappropriate in a different room of my house.

I never share the videos with anyone. They are just for my safety in case I am ever falsely accused of inappropriate behavior I will have evidence to clear my name.

LadyVel

@WriterGF I agree... With all those data breaches, hackers and scammers know more about us than our own families in some cases.

SunsetSnuggles

@JohnR1972 I'm confused; you said "theoretically", then you said you never share the videos. Do you record your cuddle sessions?

~ Sunset Snuggles

🦄 Enthusiast 🏞 Travel Fiend 🐘 Animal Lover

JohnR1972

@SunsetSnuggles
Before posting that comment, I added a paragraph to my profile and took the screen shot attached below.

To be clear, I have NEVER recorded anyone (even though it would be completely legal to do so in Indiana). Also, I have only hosted one cuddler at my home, and she is someone who knows me extremely well over the course of many cuddles in a state park.

LadyVel

👀
If I ever hosted at my house (which I don't so far), I have exterior cameras on every entry that gets uploaded to a cloud. If anything ever happened to me, they'd know who was last at my house. It also helps me see who is outside and converse with them without opening my door.

SunsetSnuggles

@JohnR1972 Very interesting social experiment! Sorry to have blown your cover so early with my question. 🫣 It confused me that you said "theoretically" and "might have", but then your ending sentence sounded as if it was not theoretical.

Regarding your comments in your profile about Pro's being able to do anything in the name of safety while men cannot protect themselves from false accusations... I'd say it's women at large, not just Pro's, first off. 😬 And yes, there are certainly a lot of gender-based inconsistencies.

As for men protecting themselves from false accusations, I honestly haven't really heard any men put forth suggestions of what they might do, or how they might protect themselves. I've heard them express nervousness over the potential of false accusations, but never put forth solutions such as your hypothetical scenario. I can only imagine how terrifying it would be, to feel that any woman could make an accusation at any time, and pretty much everyone would believe her. We are trained on the importance of believing victims (thank God), but it could certainly be used for evil purposes by a scammer or jilted woman. Very scary, indeed.

Regarding the "anything to protect themselves" bit, I will honestly say that I would find it unethical to video record anyone without their consent, during a cuddle - whether the recording party was male or female. To me, cuddling, as an act, gives one the expectation of privacy. Maybe not from a legal perspective, but to me, it's ethical. If I heard of a female recording men without their knowledge, I would feel it was absolutely wrong.

I think the difference between, for instance, @cuddlefaery giving a guy's photo and number to her safety contact, and a man recording a Pro's cuddle session to prove his future innocence, is that in the first scenario, the guy willingly gave his photo and number over, while in the second, the recording was done secretly.

When you willingly hand over identifying information (let alone the fact that it's often posted on their profiles publicly, or else transmitted through the site where the mods can see it), you know there's a likelihood of it being shared. But walking into a private house to cuddle on a couch, no one would think there's a likelihood of being recorded without their knowing. I don't see them as being the best comparisons. (Also, many women here share right on their profile that they have a safety contact that knows who they're with at all times.)

I guess the question I have at this point would be, if there's an ethical issue with giving someone's picture to a safety contact, is there also an ethical issue with all the girls who gush to their friends about their latest crush, and share his photo? If so, I think we're all guilty of sharing without consent. 😋

~ Sunset Snuggles

🦄 Enthusiast 🏞 Travel Fiend 🐘 Animal Lover

JohnR1972

@SunsetSnuggles
I 100% agree my theoretical scenario would be highly unethical (though legal in my state). But I also find it unethical to ask for a name and photo without informing the person providing that information that it will be shared with other people.

That is why I began my 2nd post in this thread pointing out that “implied consent” is contrary to the principle of true consent espoused on this site. Saying it is OK to do something because the person “should have known” is a DANGEROUS standard.

Anyone remember the Mike Tyson rape trial (it was held here in Indianapolis). His defense essentially amounted to a woman going to his hotel room, on short notice, late at night, “should have known” what he was wanting and since she went, she gave her implied consent. Thankfully the jury didn’t accept this logic and he went to prison for rape.

Consent needs to be explicit, not implied.

starrynitecuds

Safety is a 2-way street. I find it interesting that guys are often required to provide their name and ID to a Pro as a "safety measure," but the same Pros aren't willing to give up their names and IDs because of their safety. It's an abomination to even suggest that.
The laws agree that "Consent needs to be explicit, not implied."
Pros need to remember that when they are collecting IDs, they have to follow state and federal laws, like fully disclosing how it is used, securing it properly, who has access to it, any security breaches (like a stolen or lost phone or computer), etc. Background checks also require full disclosure, by law.
Ignorance of the laws isn't a defense.

(Feel free to hate on me, but just remember I'm NOT complaining or being hostile day after day about the horrible men I may, or may not, meet here. Oh yea, and I meet without payment. My only incentive is friendship.)

cuddlefaery

@JohnR1972 I'm not sure why or where "implied consent" regarding sharing of personal info entered the conversation?

If a pro asks for ID and you're willing to consider it IF you know that it will be kept private, that needs to be discussed. If the pro doesn't explicitly state it, don't assume - ask. If a pro sharing your info with their safety contact is a deal breaker for you, then you have the option to not book with them, privacy intact. (General yous here)

@starrynitecuds yes, safety absolutely is a two way street, but when you hire a professional for anything you are agreeing to their terms and conditions. If you don't agree, either negotiate or don't hire them. So if a pro asks you for your ID and you'd feel more comfortable if they shared theirs as well, explain that. If they decline, then you can likewise decline to hire them. You're better off hiring pros whose business practices you feel comfortable with than trying to force either yourself or the pro to move their boundaries.