Dissenting point of view on pronoun usage

edited August 2025 in General

Touchy subject in a place like this, but it might be helpful to provide a dissenting point of view on the topic. Recently had a phone call regarding a mishandled shipment (Fedex, UPS, etc) that was supposed to be delivered to me and ended up being held for pickup. I had no idea that the shipment was being held and was expecting it to be delivered. Got a phone call that went something like this:

Me: “Hello?”
Agent: “Hi, I’m calling from XYZ company, trying to reach John Doe.”
Me: “Yeah, I’m John – what’s up?”
Agent: “We’re holding a package delivery for them at [address location] and they need to come pick it up by [X date].”
Me (very confused): “Wait, what package are you talking about?”
Agent: “It’s packages for John Doe. They need to come pick it up.”

Y’all get the gist – it took me almost a minute of this kind of back & forth to finally realize that the agent was using third person indirect plural form to refer to me even though he was speaking directly to me individually. Gotta say, it was insulting to be addressed in the inanimate form and I told him so. He then switched to passive voice (“Well, the packages need to be picked up”) but not once did he address me directly. Frankly, I’d almost rather be addressed as “someone” rather than “they” when a person is speaking directly to me. I still don’t understand why the agent didn’t address me as “you” since he was speaking directly to me and had confirmed who I was.

Before anyone says it, this is very different from being referred to indirectly in the third person. Say person A posts in the forums that she met me and says something like “I met the client and we watched a movie together”, then person B responds asking “what kind of movies did they prefer?”. In that case, I’m the subject of a conversation between other people, and am not being addressed directly.

I’m not going to pretend to understand all the variations of pronouns discussed on this site, but my default when addressing a person directly is “you” or by name, and generally I try to be polite to individuals unless the person has given me a reason to be rude. It was, from my perspective, very rude for the agent to speak to me that way - "degrading" and "dehumanizing" both come to mind as descriptives.

Ok, I’m putting my soapbox away now.

Comments

  • edited August 2025

    pronouns have been a part of the English language for eons. This is unacceptable for the forum. -Stormy

  • "They" is not an inanimate form. It's the common way of referring to unknown or indeterminate (including non-binary) gender. I would consider "it" to be the inanimate form. And yet, I know people, usually agender, whose preferred pronouns are it/its.

    But your complaint isn't actually about pronouns. What I get is that your objection is being addressed directly in the third person. Regardless of pronouns, that is rude and can be seen as dehumanizing. It was very unprofessional to confirm that they are talking to you and then fail to talk directly to you.

  • Why post if it's a touchy subject?

  • @craM In the words of Spider Robinson, “Shared pain is lessened. Shared joy is increased. Thus we refute entropy.”

    Venting about something that's hurtful can be an effective way of lessening the hurt.

  • [Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)

    @Jubal I get your frustration. Glad you got it off your chest.
    @cram With the exception of religion and politics touchy subjects are not verboten.
    @IronLemon Good point

  • @Jubal Actually, your experience wasn't just rudeness, they were, ultimately, misgendering you.
    Because you're absolutely right, being referred to by a pronoun that isn't yours feels awful. 🤷🏼 It feels rude and even maliciously dehumanizing because they know your preferred pronouns, you told them you're John, which usually triggers you/yours pronouns, but the person on the line stuck with they/them, which proves they didn't believe that you are who you say you are.

    When people think of "the pronouns question" it's usually focused around things like going against the gender binary we were all raised in. Person has ______ characteristic, so they must be a man/woman, and that feels wrong to challenge. We get stuck on the man vs woman question, when genuinely, in every instance where people purposely don't use someone's pronouns correctly, the center of the pain it causes is because it's dehumanizing. It's not being believed and being treated as an object rather than a person that hurts, especially when it's even just plain rude to do it in the first place 🤷🏼
    Cuz again, I your experience on the phone, even if the attendant didn't believe that you were John, the polite thing to do would be to say "You need to come pick it up", that's just correct etiquette. So for them to go out of their way to say "they need to" when that's clearly not the polite thing to do, just feels spiteful, ya know?

  • edited August 2025

    The person referring to you indirectly has nothing to do with changes in pronoun usage. None of this post has to do with conflicting ideals around pronoun usage unless you’re expecting people to use the universal “he”. Using “They” to refer to someone who hasn’t been identified isn’t new.

    The political aspect seems ham fisted into an issue about someone being overly formal.

  • Mm ham fisting…

  • I would've been the agent to call you they as part of the script but then referred to you directly as you after being corrected. Tisk tisk tisk. Hopefully you won't have another dehumanizing experience like that this year. That one would be enough for me

  • I probably wouldn’t have even noticed nor would I take it personally, But if I did, I would put it on the agent as just being weird and part of their script/training that they got wrong. Then I would move on to the next weird experience of the day. I have to agree though that human behavior is often difficult to explain.

  • Mm ham fisting…

    🤣🤣🤣

  • I ham fist every Easter

  • OK folks, I know this is tough, but let me clear it up for all of you.

    Pronoun when addressing a man .................... you.
    Pronoun when addressing a woman .................... you.
    Pronoun when addressing a non-binary .................... you.
    Pronoun when addressing a trans-sexual .................... you.
    Pronoun when addressing a gender-queer .................... you.
    Pronoun when addressing a gender-fluid .................... you.
    Pronoun when addressing someone of indeterminant gender .................... you.

    The guy on the phone was just an idiot, plain and simple.

  • @Runawaycuddles Huh, I wouldn't have thought that. My understanding of 'misgendering' is different than what you're saying. Will have to mull that over.

    @IronLemon "they" has always been an inanimate form of address in my experience (it/they/those). That's why it was insulting to me.

    The guy on the phone was just an idiot, plain and simple.

    @ChemicalBob no argument from me

  • edited August 2025

    OK, so here’s the thing. This topic is so very close to being part of the LBGTQ intolerance rule (meaning leading towards intolerant conversation) that I’m going to lock it. I am not going to issue timeouts at this time.
    It its already landed one person in timeout and I don’t see it going anywhere positive.

This discussion has been locked.