@Lovelight No worries. Thank you for clarifying. ?
@UKGuy
"'Platonic' means non-sexual but that does not imply that one's sex is not a consideration. Most heterosexual men are not socialized to be intimate and affectionate with members of their own sex. That seems to be something that far more women are socialized to be comfortable with. I'm surprised that so many women seem to be unaware or unaccepting of this fact."
As you may understand it goes beyond socialization.
I understand that there might be some societal pressure and such. Though as we also know generally men and women are different beyond just our body. Generally our voice is different, our mannerism, personality etc. Likewise, men tend to be more tough natured, women more nurturing natured. It doesn't mean either can't be the other way. Though in general the differences are there and we often find they complement each other.
Then there is the difference in body. The same way a man might not not feel comfortable with another man because of that, I am not too comfortable with a woman because of that and that. At the end of the day, it's perfectly alright to be with who makes you comfortable and not be with who doesn't without having to change or feel ashamed for "not being open-minded".
If I put on a cape and ACT like a superhero, does that make me Superman? If I walk on all fours and bark at everyone does that make me a dog? No, in fact, most people would assume that I had a mental health issue. Same thing here!
There are so many... upsetting (i.e. ignorant and/or transphobic) comments in this thread.
@Get2Me Uh-huh. Sure. Definitely the same thing. Definitely relevant to this conversation. Definitely adding positively to this discussion! Glad you’re an armchair psychologist! /sarcasm
@CreativeCuddles Please don’t call someone ‘a trans.’ It’s offensive. They are a trans person. It’s like calling someone ‘a bipolar.’ They are a person who has bipolar.
If you think someone is trans then you don’t have to cuddle with them! Or talk with them! (I would recommend not being hateful towards them, but that’s obviously going to be impossible for some of you.)
If someone is... _______ ...you don’t have to cuddle them. It’s your choice!
There are many reasons why a person might not put their sex/gender identity in their profile the way that YOU think they should!
Some people are just straight-up liars who love lying! They might lie in their profiles, in their messages, in their pictures... You can’t always tell! Be careful! These people, frankly, suck.
If you are a cis-person who thinks you have trans-dar: You’re just wrong. I’m sorry. There are some people who ‘look’ trans and there are some people that you will never know unless they tell you. I know you’re really scared about that latter situation. But, it’s already happening. Don’t worry about it — it is not affecting your life!
Can’t we be done with this thread already? I don’t see any new conversation evolving. It’s just nasty.
@AndiCuddles please dont put down @Get2Me opinions and thoughts, you want everyone to respect your opinion, then show some respect to others you dont particularly agree with
Let’s just make everyone feel good and happy and not worry about their accuracy of reality. We all have dreams and goals, so I guess that there is nothing wrong with someone dreaming about being something other than what they REALLY are. Kinda reminds me of the part in the movie “Catch me if you can” where Leonardo DiCaprio went all over the world acting like a pilot. He fooled a lot of people, but it was not reality, he was just a confused young man, it was all just a fantasy!
The ppl screaming for tolerance on here become the most intolerant whenever you dont agree with them
-dont judge me for my opinion-
To the slew of people on here who have recently added ‘don’t judge me for my opinion’ to their messages or are using it as a signature:
You don’t seem to understand how opinions work.
Well, I gotta go to work now. I do drive a nice car and I do have a nice home... some people think that I’m rich so I better go earn my keep so that they can keep imagining that I am something that I’m really not!!!!
@AndiCuddles , thank you for speaking up. These comments are so cringey, and this discussion is a dumpster fire. Mods really need to shut down these offensive and ignorant posts.
Though it is helpful for those of us who get to see the ugly sides to the transphobic and, somehow, entitled to others' private and vulnerable info on this thread.
Note to the men on this thread (can't speak to how men are perceiving of the women here) who would like to meet up with cis-women: your negative, ignorant, and/or entitled comments about trans-women are being noticed by all; very, very few of us are ignorant enough to believe you won't treat cis-women poorly in the way you write that you believe you're entitled to treat trans-women, so keep that in mind when posting (or not; it's a helpful barometer for all of us on this site).
To anyone genuinely asking about how to go about discussing this with someone, own your issues. "Hey, I know it's weird and probably offensive, but I have this hangup due to some issues and wonder if it's okay to ask if you are a cis or a trans-[woman/man/enbie]? I understand if you don't want to answer, but this does affect my comfort with others so thought I'd be up front about that. I hope you have a great day, either way."
Verbiage like the above may not get the results you're looking for but would most certainly help in not offending every single person you do want to cuddle.
I wish there were a way to block this discussion so I wouldn't have to see it any longer, but I expect I won't be commenting again.
@PinkLipstick22 +1000
@AndiCuddles I'm going to take your advice from one of your previous messages lol because I was gonna get nasty, but I rather be positive lol, have a wonderful day :-)
(Just for you) -dont hate on me for my opinions-
Also, FWIW — I am not going to ‘respect’ people’s sexist, racist, transphobic or any other -ist-type ‘opinions.’
Full stop.
I would like to add that these ‘opinions’ are often stated as fact.
Lastly, I really don’t care if people ‘respect’ my opinion or whatever. As long as they debate me in a style that adds to the discussion. (What about my response to @Get2Me? Well, if someone is going to use a STRAW MAN LOGICAL FALLACY then I am going to respond with SARCASM.)
Please, judge me on my opinions. That’s what they’re there for. I’ve created my opinions. I can (theoretically) change my opinions — which is why they’re worth arguing over!
And it’s absolutely no fun at all to argue over FACTS. Pft.
'These people don't/shouldn't' exist isn't an opinion. Sure, you can go around thinking trans people don't really exist, just like you can go around pretending to be Superman reincarnated as a canine. But it won't change the real world. All it really does is change people's opinions of you.
I really don't think I'll be meeting anyone from this site now. I totally agree with @PinkLipstick22 . As a cis woman who doesn't look conventionally feminine I am now extremely wary of the kinds of people I might meet from here. Who knows what they'd do if one of them got it into their heads that because I don't look feminine I'm somehow lying to them?
One puts “I am only stating this because I have heard it, so please don’t criticize me for mentioning it” is because it wasn’t mentioned in this site and it isn’t stated as a fact it’s a question bc it’s something I have heard. I have stated I honestly don’t know. If it’s fact please tell me if it’s not please tell me. Those of us that are new to these forums don’t know the proper verbiage to use for trans women which is why I stated I wanted to utilize the website someone posted so I can learn as to not offend anyone. I’d rather teach someone things they have admitted they don’t know about then tell them they are ignorant for words they use. Call me sheltered I have never had to use the word trans in any aspect to know it should be trans woman. I use these forums to learn or give a thought. If I have offended a trans person it was not intentional and I apologize for my ignorance for not using the proper verbiage.
Okay, I am commenting again because...ahhhh
You all have Google at your finger tips, which contains all the knowledge this planet has to offer; use it. Ignorance is no excuse for being transphobic, using dehumanizing language, or being a general jerk here or anywhere else.
No one has to educate you, for free, especially when most of the responses are sarcastic and rude. Take some initiative, and you might be astonished at what you will learn.
@snughugs " 'These people don't/shouldn't' exist isn't an opinion."
You have deliberately twisted this discussion into something completely different from the original premise. Didn't you wonder why as the OP I went silent? Because I refuse to have the argument that you're obviously trying to turn this into in which you get to make up my argument and place them in my mouth before shooting them down with your perfectly timed responses. I am not interested in taking part in your strawman arguments.
@CreativeCuddles I’m sorry that I put my comment to you as tersely as I did; I know you are trying to learn, and I appreciate that. I don’t put you in the same category as people who are just being unapologetically transphobic. As far as the content of my message, I know that most people who are transgender don’t want to be called ‘a trans.’ But I know the ideas (and language) are constantly evolving, and if you’re not someone who has contact with people who are transgender, it may be difficult to know what is and isn’t acceptable to say.
While it is not the same, for Americans it may be useful to think of it similar to the evolution of thinking and terms that African Americans have gone through. At one time, ‘negro’ was okay. (To most white people, at least.) Then colored. Then black (which seems to be an okay term still where I live, a little Northwest of Detroit). But I cringe every time my father (who is 81) says ‘a black’ (rather than saying ‘a black person’ or that someone ‘is black’ or whatnot — or not mentioning their race at all unless it’s actually pertinent to whatever he’s telling me!).
Also somewhat similar is how white Americans relate to African Americans — there are just some things that are not okay. Touching their hair, or asking one black person about ‘the black perspective’ as if one person can speak to the experience of millions of individuals. And black people don’t owe us an explanation about their culture. White people can educate themselves. And while some folks of color are willing to talk with white folks about their experience, I wouldn’t generalize and say that MOST of them are.
My analogy has major limitations. I hope everyone can understand that. I hope it’s useful, though.
And, if you’re interested in learning more about the LGBTQ community, I would try to educate yourself as best as possible without relying on a trans person to educate you. If you’d like some good online resources, I can point you in that direction.
@natural_oceans When you ask for opinions on a message board, people are going to weigh-in.
And just like an in-person conversation, the discussion is going to take twists and turns that you can’t control. It’s organic.
Additionally, when you’re having a conversation with a group of people, other people are going to find that they have related questions or opinions, which may then get talked about.
And, without @snughugs @ing you, I don’t think you should automatically assume she’s addressing you.
@AndiCuddles That may be the case for a disorganised offline discussion but it should not be the case for online discussions on a well organised server such as this one. The topic for discussion is printed at the top of the page. If you wish to have a different discussion then create a new one.
@natural_oceans
That may be logical, but it’s not pragmatic.
If you want to steer things back to your original question and intent, you are welcome to do so at any time.
I already said everything that I need to say needs on the original topic. And then all sorts of words shoved down my throat I didn't say so I've had about enough of this discussion.
Please close this thread!!! @AndiCuddles is saying some crazy stuff lol
In a world where everyone born into a male body is always a man, and everyone born into a female body is always a woman, and there are no other options for sex or gender, someone claiming to be trans is definitely insane.
That's not the world we live in, though. Ours is more interesting.
@AndiCuddles and @PinkLipstick22 - Thank you for being voices of reason in this discussion.
@DarrenWalker , Your thoughtful perspective has just influenced my opinion on this. That is saying a lot since I was 50 when the DSM-5 was adopted and that WAS the world I lived in. Our world is more interesting now, and you have made this discussion more interesting as well. TBH as of this morning I didn't know any trans persons (that I knew were trans persons) by nature of the circles I walk in, but perhaps now I think maybe I do just a little bit. I also appreciate the honest nature of your profile.
I was under the impression forums were to discuss things, get opinions and not call people ignorant because they don’t know something. Ignorant is not wanting to know If you don’t know what words to google because you have never heard of them until this thread. You don’t know what the term transphobic means, if you did wouldn’t it be kind of odd that I would be interested in learning.
Take some initiative and read my comments and tell me where I left a rude or sarcastic comment because you won’t find one. When it was pointed out that I was using incorrect verbiage I corrected it but for whatever reason you find just cause in criticizing every comment. It’s so nice when a new person comes to a forum, wants to learn but is suddenly ignorant because she asks questions. Call me whatever you like but I was taught in kindergarten that no question is a stupid question and unlike some I wasn’t born knowing everything. @AndiCuddles thank you for clarifying. I live in a very small town and no I have never been exposed to anyone transgender and have been in the medical field for 27 years, hands on care. I spent some time learning what the terms under “other” were because no I have never heard of the majority of them and for others to advise me to google things if I have never heard of things how would I know what to google. In the medical field you take care of whomever is in front of you no matter who they are and I have never nor will I have a phobia of anyone but I can’t be expected to know something I haven’t been exposed to. I will absolutely take you up on your offer and would love if you could forward some good online resources.
I would hate to know if you guys are school teachers and how you would make a student feel for asking questions.
John Rambo: Go live your life 'cause you've got a good one. Sarah: It's what I'm trying to do. John Rambo: No, what you're trying to do is change what is. Sarah: And what is? John Rambo: That we're like animals! It's in the blood! It's natural! Peace? That's an accident! It's what is! When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing. When the killing stops in one place, it starts in another, but that's okay... 'cause you're killing for your country. But it ain't your country who asks you, it's a few men up top who want it. Old men start it, young men fight it, nobody wins, everybody in the middle dies... and nobody tells the truth! God's gonna make all that go away? John Rambo: Don't waste your life, I did. Go home.
I'm 65 years old. I've had trans people in my life on and off since I was 19 years old.
One can insist it should not matter and to some it doesn't, but to some people it does, just as it matters to them if the person they are cuddling is male or female. I don't think we get to decide for someone else who they do or don't want to cuddle with.
Cuddling is very intimate. If all parties involved aren't comfortable, it's not going to work.
You can't force someone to be comfortable with something they aren't. This isn't jobs or housing, we're talking about personal preferences about how we relate to another human on a physically intimate level. I'm open to cuddling people of any age, race, sex, gender, body type, ethnicity. I also accept that others have different criteria and there's nothing wrong with people having their preferences about who they want to be that physically close with.
Someone might not want to cuddle with me because of my age. That's their choice. I'm not going to mislead them about my age because of it. The people I want to cuddle with aren't going to care about that, either because they're close to my age, too, or they aren't but that's not a limiting factor for them.
A good cuddling relationship requires mutual trust for it to work. How else is one going to be able to relax?