ENERGY VAMPIRES... People who want you to "be there" for them, but don't reciprocate...

Okay... I'm still formulating the concept in my mind/life, but in all of this "shelter-at-home" time, it's sort of become clear that I've allowed people into my life/experience who are more than willing to dump their problems onto me, seeking wisdom or a new perspective, while being TOTALLY UNWILLING to reciprocate that sharing or caring.

It's not often that I need it, but on the occasions when I'd simply like to be "heard," they're either too busy, not answering, or frankly, acting like my "little issues" are somehow not worth bothering with or hearing..

Question: Have you ever dealt with people like this? Did you feel, eventually, that you were laying out more of an investment in them than they were willing to lay out for you? What did you do about it?

The longer this isolation lasts, the more I realize that I'm no longer willing to play the role of "Scapegoat" or "Sin Eater" for those who seem to have become accustomed to using my energy as a recharge.. I figure, if I've done the work to have a fat, healthy supply, why should I allow others---who are NEVER WILLING TO "BE THERE" FOR ME--- to benefit from the energy work I've done? Isn't it supposed to be "give AND take"???

Insight, please?

Imajen

Not that my insight even matters. But I'll give it a shot. I'm trying real hard not to post anymore. But this thread resonates deeply with the emotional pain I'm currently experiencing.

@ImajenMoon as I read your post, my mind flashed back to memories of past friends, acquaintances and family who did the same thing you described. And it does hurt especially when your kind thoughtful care isn't reciprocated. It really hurts. And as you say especially now with shelter in place restrictions it wears on your mind a little more than usual.

To answer your questions:

1. People who diminish your concerns or problems as "little issues" they don't want to be bothered with or are too busy to "hear" you are NOT worth your energy and time. So I gradually stop communicating with them. As I ease back my communication with them I busy myself with activities I enjoy and reach out to people who acknowledge my care to them and "make" the time to "hear" me out.

2. And yes I did often feel I was investing more of my time and emotion in these folks than they were able to give or capable of giving. I dug deep within my self conscious to figure out what it is that I was not taking care of with in myself that has me so driven to invest emotionally in people that were only consuming all my energy. What unmet need did I have that I was using my investment in them to fill? This is what I asked my self. Was I asking from them more than they could or want to give given where there are on their life journey?

3. When I asked myself these questions I felt a small sense of relief inside. I felt a small sense of self empathy and awareness I hadn't felt while I was in the anger and frustration zone. And it's this relief and awareness that pushed me to finding the energy and mental power to heal and grow from it.
4. I created the change in mindset for myself I wanted to see in that person. I learned to be compassionate yet detached. While investing my time and energy in my hobbies and interests. I engaged my mind in learning things I liked and found interesting. So I still heard these folks out but I no longer felt the need to be heard by them. They took notice. They didn't change their ways. But I had changed. Eventually I gently distanced myself: acknowledging their thoughts and feelings and changing the topic of conversation or ending it all together. At times acknowledging them yet remaining silent and detached. Or as I said before just not communicating at all.
5. I felt better because they no longer had that control over my spirit. I no longer had any expectations of them. My mental and emotional detachment gave me that clarity I needed in how I choose to respond to and interact with them.

That's my insight. I don't give advice because I'm not qualified to do so. And this is certainly no advice.

But my life experiences with such people has given me the experience in dealing with them in ways that has worked for me. Don't know if my insight is of any help to you because like I said I'm not qualified in such matters.

It's why I have no friends at this stage of my life and I remain detached, indifferent and cynical as I've gotten older.

But I feel you.

geoff1000

@ImajenMoon
I can't offer much useful advice, but yes, I've known such people. Good descriptive term, by the way.

You tell them that you have a problem, and they say that they have a much bigger problem ; which you end up having to fix, and that discourages you from mentioning your problems in future.

I did once bluntly ask someone for a few words of encouragement, only to be told that I was too demanding.

JoyfulHeart

@ImajenMoon You've described some of the friendships and relationships in my life. If I'm going to be fully honest with myself, there may have been a few times when I took more than I was giving, but my tendency more often has been to give and give with no idea that I could say no.

One of the benefits of being in this community is that I'm discovering how to say no when that's the right answer, and how to ask for the things I want.

I'm getting better at giving only what I have to give, and as I result, I feel less depleted by the relationships where people genuinely need what I can willingly offer.

Sometimes the people who fill my emotional needs are different from the ones that I'm giving to. That said, I'm very grateful for the friendships where the give and take feels balanced. It's not the case with all my friendships, but the ones that can be described that way are precious to me.

@Bles~ I sincerely hope that you don't stop posting here. Your words have often provided me with insight, wisdom, and more than a few times, an "ouch" or two. Even though you didn't mean it as advice, your willingness to share the Soul Knowledge you've gained on your journey is beautiful and needed...especially by those of us who have yet to gather the courage to face the Truth within, like you have...

Thanks for your post! While the entire post hit "home," the second and fourth really spoke to me. My journal's gonna be SMOKIN' for the next few nights! lol Then, I'll work on the fifth!

@geoff1000 ~ WOW. Just wow. "How dare you act like your 'little issue' of wanting a few words of encouragement is important??" Right? And, yes, I HAVE stopped even bothering to mention mine...they often get glossed over. At least I haven't had anyone tell me that I was "too demanding". Wow. Simple human kindness can be in such short supply, sometimes..

@JoyfulHeart ~ "...giving only what I have to give." <<Powerful statement.. Woo. I'm glad you're growing from your participation here. I enjoyed your post on how your attending a cuddle party helped you redefine your own sense of space and perspective. Got a lot out of that, myself. I'm learning that having a few, balanced, reciprocal friendships is far better than hoping for a huge circle. Sometimes, a few are enough.

Thanks, folks, for this amazing food for thought. Even though I haven't yet participated in a live-action cuddle session, I am SOOOO GLAD I FOUND THIS SITE. Y'all Rock!

Imajen

geoff1000

@ImajenMoon
A colleague once asked me "Can I help ?" and I replied "You just did".

MrPaul

@ImajenMoon
I think sometimes the best thing to do is let go of people who consistently bring you down. We only have limited time. It’s best spent with people who care and treat us well. Interactions should be mutually beneficial - perhaps not every time, but it needs to average out in the long run.

TheLilSpoon

@geoff1000 i love that. And I’m gonna start using that for people who ask if they can help.

@ImajenMoon i just want to say you are an incredibly beautiful soul. I haven’t been here too long but I’ve read some of your posts and you are such a wise and insightful and uplifiting person. I think at any moment sitting down and having a cup of coffee with you would be so healing. To answer your question, yes. All the time, and my whole life. I am a “go out of my way” to help people and when it’s my turn to ask for help, suddenly no one is there. So I stop asking.

@Bles please don’t stop posting. I’m also detached, without friends and 100% cynical. Easier to not be let down then.

I’m what you’d call a silent watcher. Usually don’t post but read a lot. This post also resonated with me. It’s nice to have people to relate to.

CuddleDva

Energy vampires are incapable of reciprocating, and in my experience tend to be quite selfish overall.

During this pandemic I've watched/listened to a lot of ppl I've known for a very long time and have become very disappointed in their behavior and has been quite depressing.

Discussing our innermost thoughts and concerns requires a level of trust and vulnerability - some people just don't respect or consider.

The good news: You can always make NEW friends! There are great people out there who are good listeners, patient and empathetic that have their own struggles and have the ability to reciprocate Just being here gives me a lot of hope

@TheLilSpoon and @ImajenMoon Thank you. Your heart felt sentiments sang to me. I'll keep them in mind when I feel discouraged. This is certainly one interesting community. I so appreciate.

UKGuy

All my life it seems like I have been the giver and other people have been the takers, so I sympathize with your sentiments. It's hard to believe there are actually any other givers out there.

Lovelight

Is that what they are called? I heard the term before just didn't make the connection. Pretty sure I've dealt with them time and time again:

They seem to throw a fit. I suppose in an attempt to gain apologies/my resources when I pull back: due to exhaustion from just being there for them. They are no where to be found most of the time when it comes to my needs. Some for sure as far as I know had rough experiences: though for how long am I supposed to be "understanding" "there" and they've little to no investment in me? A year? Done. Two? Probably done. Three? Maybe done too. Though no can do no more. I'm not getting paid to ONLY be their source of comfort. I too have needs, and I try to refrain from saying "once in a while I've needs" because I feel that I've been made (by whoever) to accept much less than I give. So I'm working on moving past that.

Challenges of Breaking Up:

At the moment, due to the unique situations of my relationships with them, and the difficult times we are in: I'm not doing anything clear about it. They've given me silence/insufficient investment for months, if not more. After reaching out a few times to one of them recently, I still mainly got ignored. Though just in case they've any feelings of friendship towards me, even if just for their selfish gain: I don't want to break up with them at this difficult time, because, I'm sure they are dealing with enough as is. I'll give them the silence they are giving me, and plan to break up at a better time.

A part of me feels that I should do the right(?) thing and have an in person breakup. Though with what they've put me through, the "broke up with you by not meeting your needs, giving you silent treatment, etc., though not going to tell you upfront." I question why do I've to be the one to give them the dignity and clarity of a open break up. In a way, I'm also concerned with them blaming me for ending our friendship. Though it seems either way, I'll still be breaking up by blocking/removing them online: which they might, or might not notice anytime soon. So perhaps I might as well be open about it: at least to as many as possible. I have to be as ready as possible and not fall for another apology, another chance.

Also I need to choose* my words well when breaking up, perhaps something like: "This friendship no longer meets my needs, I've been patient and gave chances. Now I need to move on and find connections that meet my needs. Take care." As much as it's hurtful to feel unwanted, ignored: I still make an effort to be kind in my break up because we never know what someone else is truly going through.

Mental Illnesses:

Unfortunately, there are also the challenges of mental illnesses. Some times someone could have mental illness(es) that you might NOT* know about and which result in difficulties in relationships, be it: "lying" something that very well seems real to them, though, to us doesn't exist, being too distant, etc. I've been in situations that I didn't understand before, they seemed very much like lying: until I found out that this individual has a mental illness that seems to cause them delusions.

Sometimes it can also be challenging to know what part of the difficulties is because of their mental illness(es) and what part is their unwillingness/inability(?) to sufficiently invest. Though either way, with or without mental illness(es) on the table: we don't have to invest, nor stay anymore than we can, and are happy to. We need to take better care of ourselves and find mutual connections that meet our needs too.

Moving Forward:

Sometimes I feel cynical, I want to shut down, or I shut down: though I understand that this is a self-sabotaging phase that I need to get past. One of the new seemingly hopeful connections I've made, he seemed to want to be friends with me. Though because I'm not ready and emotionally open to proceed, I've informed him. Even though in this connection we are having difficulties with it, he seems to want more than I can give: We seem to be taking connecting slow, and we'll see if that issue resolves. So being open about our unavailability (emotionally/whatever) is important.

@geoff1000~ See? See how such a small act of genuine consideration can really do a body good??? I'm glad you told your colleague the effect those words, that interested willingness to reach over to your situation, had on you. And I hope that your words touched the place in your colleague that knew that offering was the right thing to do! I can only hope that I can do that for someone who might need it, one day.

@MrPaul~ "...perhaps not every time, but it needs to AVERAGE OUT IN THE LONG RUN." << Right here!!! This is what I was talking about--- like a dynamic, living balance of give and take-- I think of the active choreography of a fencing match. Some for you; some for me. I gave up on that, a long time ago, and just resigned myself to patching up my own raggedy Self. But I'm questioning that decision, these days. Thanks, Mr. Paul!
I'm beginning to see the value in finally releasing those who are either unable or unwilling to return care to me. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe my "loner-hood," throughout life hasn't been because I was trying to limit the number of new people asking for help!
I think, in the time I have left, that I'd like to have a few folks around who call JUST TO CHECK ON ME. <<<<<This statement REALLY triggered the "YOU'RE SELFISH" program, right then! Much work still left to be done!

@TheLilSpoon~ @geoff1000 's kind of awesome, isn't he? He has given me so much, too!
I want you to know that your words hit right where you aimed them, with the proof trickling, warmly, down my face.. Thank you. I'd be HONORED AND DELIGHTED to have a cup---or five!-- with you, just for the pleasure of your company, and for the chance to enjoy all that I KNOW you'd bring!
"...when it's my turn to ask for help, suddenly no one is there. SO I STOP ASKING."<<This right here. I "stopped asking," years ago. I thought the problem was me--that the utter insignificance of my needs was so great that THAT'S why no one ever seemed to care about them. So, I bound up my wounds, wiped away my own tears, and limped on...my own cynicism making me numb to the pain, like being frozen solid, emotionally.
It's only been recently that I've discovered that this wasn't the case; that the people I grew up around were injured, badly, too, and simply weren't capable of healthy interaction with a child. Does that erase the damage done? No. Does it help me come to a place of understanding and strength, where I can finally let it go and begin re-writing my Life Story? YES!!!! Am I beginning to melt down through the ice... Slowly. I'm glad I found this site.
Am I glad you are here? YES!!! I, for one, am grateful that you felt sufficiently comfortable to come and share the clear-eyed, thoughtful insight your silent observation has granted. I'm glad WE all have found a place where we have others to relate to...and with! Thanks, LilSpoon!

@CuddleDva~ SAY THAT!!! "...great people out there who are good listeners, patient and empathetic that have their own struggles and have the ability to reciprocate." Hey, @Bles~ now she's got ME over here SANGIN'!! lol I've seen them, but they're usually "over there," while I'm usually over here, trying to pull someone out of messes of their own making! lol I thought it was just me-- this "quiet time" has left me with nowhere to hide. I'm seeing what I've been able to shield from even my own self, for so long. Some of it ain't pretty. Neither is the work that I now see is coming. In researching this thing, I've repeatedly come across the idea that people who are incapable of reciprocating, who are overall selfish, are those who are deeply wounded, from their childhood experience. It's like they've been pegged to the ground at the age the trauma happened, emotionally. While I can fully understand the concept, the experience of trying to fill such a bottomless hole has left me spent... I'm no longer willing to try to "fix," anymore, those whom I wasn't responsible for "breaking." I gotta do my work...they've gotta do theirs.

@Bles~ I've often mourned the loss of our Crone Energy, as a society. The wisdom of the old women---who could guide us with the knowledge gained through their own journeys. Most of those that I know who could have done so much good, have gone and "found religion," and refuse to tell the secrets they learned in their not-so-holy days. What a loss... But when you share what you've found, I'm reminded that there just might still be a few left! SOOO glad!!
Also...
The Wise Women have been hunted, harassed, burned, drowned, and persecuted for thousands of years. There is something powerful, almost frightful, about a woman who has faced her Shadow, and is willing to speak of such things. Persecutors abound, even today, but once you've been to hell and back, YOU get to call your own shots. You keep posting. Petty Pixels on a backlit page are nowhere near as terrible as the tortures some of us endured, in older, darker days! And some of us still need to hear what YOUR Soul has to say!

@UKGuy~ That's just the thing---- I've SEEN, from afar, people being mutually caring, looking in on one another, practicing a beautiful, balanced almost "dance" of reciprocity. They really do exist! It's like we've been so busy giving that we never stopped to realize just how "hungry" we, ourselves, were! Maybe, during this time of introspection, some of us "givers" will realize that it's better to be fed than to be "right" or "strong," so much of the time. Maybe I haven't allowed anyone to see my need... is that their fault? No, but being vulnerable can be scarier than starvation, I guess.

@Lovelight~ THANK YOU! Those spoilers were amazing!! "This friendship no longer meets my needs. I've been patient and gave chances. Now I need to move on and find connections that meet my needs." <<<< I feel like I just heard from my Spirit, through your words!! Thank you for LITERALLY giving me the words I needed for this next phase of Life. "Exhausted" and "ignored" are not the words I thought I'd ever end up using to characterize my experience. Changes are needed.
That phrase, "Energy Vampire," was what kept popping up when I'd type in my search questions, as I've been researching this thing. It seemed rather appropriate!
I also hear you, loud and clear, about the possibility of mental illness potentially lying at the base of this type of behavior. While I am a naturally compassionate person, I think I'm just plain "tapped out." After fifty-something (lol) years of habitually and willingly handing over my veins, I think it's time for me to find a few folks who'll let me keep some of my energy for my own use. Maybe even exchange some..
Imajen
*Note: As I've been reading and responding to the heavy-hitting insights provided in this thread, I'm sort of seeing a connection between having been raised under Narcissism and how I seem to have, subsequently, populated my Life with those who replicate the behavior of my caretaker. "Your needs 'don't matter' now because they seldom mattered then," my Inner just whispered. I need to do some deep breathing!!!

Feels like "The Meg" just surfaced!!! Whew!!!

geoff1000

@ImajenMoon
I've used this quote before :
"It is always consoling to think of suicide : in that way one gets through many a bad night."
Friedrich Nietzsche

I similarly think that recognising someone may well be a lost cause, that we would be fully justified in dropping ( which would be a irretrievable act ) ; can help us to deal with them. If we are choosing to feed, what might well be an "energy vampire" ; it means we are choosing to act that way, rather than being a helpless victim of circumstances.

We can say we are choosing to act the way we are acting, as long as we want, but no longer. We can then honestly say to the other person, that our support for them is precarious, and they need to pick up their end of the log.

JoyfulHeart

Well stated, @geoff1000

That's the thing, isn't it? When you know better, you can do better. If it's never even been recognized as a choice, how do you un-make it, or choose differently? I'm wrestling, now, with that very thing. Being treated this way has seemed "normal," for so long, to quote a title, "I didn't know I had a choice." Like it was my own familiar kind of crazy. But, oh, when we realize that we actually do; that we are the only ones who have the right to make the choices that straighten out our paths... That's when, I think, things can get better.

Thanks for the thoughts, @geoff1000~

Imajen

Lovelight

@ImajenMoon I've yet to refine that bit. Though I'm glad our thoughts have been of help to you.

General post:

The thing about choice here is that I doubt most of us who have these issues knowingly choose to get used (intentionally or not) by others. Many of us however choose to love, and take care of them: not yet knowing that we'll barely get much in return whatever the reasons may be. Or that this friendship can not be fixed, and have been inexperienced as to when to let go.

Some of us go through stages in which we think: "you take care of the people you love" so we do. Then we think "if I do more, if I just support sunshine Joe, and Samantha rainbow over this, that, oh and this huge hurdle, they will recognize me as valuable and take care of me too!" Though we might (due to lack of experience) take long to figure out that Miss rainbow only comes around when she needs us to fulfill her needs. That Mr sunshine might not even consider us a friend, though hand him a million dollar (money/idea/whatever) and he'll take it: with little to no care as to whether or not we too need anything: because he doesn't have those emotions towards us. Perhaps he doesn't have them towards anyone.

Confront them, and most likely they'll be apologetic, they'll make promises to improve: they might be knowingly lying/manipulating. And do the bare minimum, enough to get you (their source of fulfilment) hooked again. Or they too might not be so aware of their limitations, that what you'd like doesn't come naturally to them to give to you. Or they might not be in a position to tell you that upfront. So they might try to meet your needs, then back to square one.

There are thoughts such as: "you don't give up easily on those you love." Though there really isn't a universal measurement as to when is too easily/too much, unless someone actually tell us, or we reach our limit: so it seems to be subjective.

With no adequate guidance, and experience: we are often bound to lose balance, until we get better at balancing.

So from experience overtime we learn that the people we've been wanting in our lives, to care for are not conducive to our needs, etc. It is then that we can begin to make changes.

I guess people are like that sometimes, sometimes we’re assholes and sometimes other people are assholes, and if you don’t like someone you can try to move on I guess
Or find something a hobby or food or anything that helps you cope.

Lovelight

Unfortunately I also came to learn (took me a while to get it) that there's some truth to this.. (more or less) concept of: "asking for what you want is better than saying what you don't want." From a few videos I came across, they said along the lines of, saying: "I don't want x, is telegraphing to the world that you've dealt with x. Perhaps so many times."

Perhaps it's not what they meant by it. Though how I take it is that by telegraphing explicitly/implicitly messages such as: "I don't want liars, users, etc." We are more likely to attract those same individuals, they see that we've dealt with that because we are essentially handing to them our insecurities/. They are attracted to the weakness of others, not as a chance to help heal them. Though as a chance to feed off of it.

Part of the issue is that, some of these people (for a lack of a better word) _______ profile others. So they see you've an insecurity, or they might think that "most/all people who are overweight, disabled, freshly out a break up, etc., are likely to feel like a/be an outcast, lonely, emotionally damaged, have low self-esteem, etc. Which is why users, etc., can very well be drawn to people they think fit that image. Some will listen to our difficulties just enough to think that they can treat us however they want: put us on the lowest of priority, and just show up to use us. So it's paramount that we love ourselves enough to not settle for less, and to recognize that we are loved, wanted, respected...: even if just by ourselves. Then going forward, to focus more on asking for what we want. Though the latter "asking for what we want as opposed to what we don't want" is something that I've to think more about, because it seems that too comes with a caveat.

@Lovelight So very true! We attract what we manifest. We become what we believe.

Every approach we manifest comes with a caveat.

You ask for what you want you are also saying this is what I need and demand. What I'll only settle for.

You say what you don't want you are also saying this is what I'm used to and is willing to put up with.
Either way you're manifesting a value or sentiment about yourself: positive or negative.

I so agree with you that the focus should be on loving oneself. As the only respect one really needs is the respect one gives to oneself.

I spent the better part of 20 years with a man I loved more than myself. Raising his children with his family I loved and respected more than my own. I cut all ties with my acquaintances and close friends after I committed to him.

When our relationship disintegrated my self esteem fell to the sewage line. I withdrew into my mind and stayed there for almost a decade. I started hugging oak and Willow trees for comfort. I walked up to 10 miles a day to self meditate and release. Self talk became my go to therapy.

I caved in. I lost half of my body weight. I had no appetite. I saw my children and felt no emotion towards them. I refused to hug them. I refused their gifts. I begged them to stop calling me mom. I would sleep in underground garages and in fire escapes for days. I worked different jobs that took up all 24 hours in a day , seven days a week. So I didn't see them. So they couldn't see my sunken tear filled eyes. I sat for hours at a time when free in the same spot staring into space.

As time went by I realized I was slowly dying inside. I watched my replacement take my spot in the bed. I listened to her moans and groans as she enjoyed herself. I said nothing. I did nothing. His family laughed and derided me. They thought I was the dumbest woman alive and said so many times to my face. They tried to turn my children against me. Pointing out all my shortcomings as a mother. I said nothing.

But slowly I was learning from the experience. I was slowly teaching myself how to love me. How to respect me. How to stay strong for me then my children. I was slowly picking up my self esteem out of the sewage line.

I'm still a work in progress. I'm still manifesting and learning how to affirm myself. I'm still growing.

But I've also come to accept and embrace that the only respect I need to earn is my own. The only respect I'm entitled to is my own. No one else.

With that self respect I can manifest any thing I want including the respect of others.

Lovelight

@Bles I could be wrong, though it sounds like you've dealt with (a narcissist) someone who initially made you feel much valued (thus you felt like giving more) or overtime he begun to give you less and less: so in an effort to get that back, you gave more of yourself. Only to end up chasing a dangling carrot. Maybe he covertly set you up to give more: happens.

Whatever the exact case has been for you, I'm glad that you are getting better and stronger. Keep up the good work everyone.

@Lovelight I wouldn't call him a narcissist though he may have exhibited such tendencies. I am just a natural giver. He misunderstood my giving nature and took it for granted. At times even perceiving it as a sign of weakness.

I blamed myself for a long time because I knew what I was getting myself into. I knew I would always be second and third wheel to his first family. I knew that would never change. I just didn't know the extent to which his first family would have been so intrusive in our relationship. I thought I would have been able to navigate it in a win win way. Only I couldn't have anticipated that without boundaries no such navigation is possible. You can't have a win win when folks resist boundaries. I honestly never understood that until I walked away.

So that gave him the platform to do whatever he felt suited his needs. They didn't care until they saw my gradual deterioration in physical and emotional health over time. They never attributed it to their own actions. Still don't.

I spent many many years in my hours of pain and darkness self studying cognitive behavioral therapy. I still keep those books handy as reference and a potent reminder of where I've been.

I reframed my mindset and shifted my paradigm towards self love and self compassion. Self talk is a tool I I've used to live and navigate life on my own the last few years. It's what pushes me to continuously invest in my mind.

These last few years I've invested in my education, career and community volunteering. COVID-19 has halted some of it. But thanks to Zoom and Microsoft Teams I still keep up some of my volunteer activities sharing with others. Listening strategically and empathetically to others in their hour of need. I truly enjoy it. It's been part of my healing to just be present with and for others as they share at times very uncomfortable and intimate experiences. To be mindfully present with them as they sort through their own messy emotions in an effort to problem solve. Has been an enriching experience for me. I am as always eternally grateful. And I am not required to share any of my own.

So I keep going. My sharing this is not a sign of mental illness nor weakness. It is an opportunity for others to appreciate the continuity aspect of healing from whatever life experiences one has. Growth happens unevenly along the way but is never finite.

It's self awareness and mindful living that keeps us strong. That keeps us open to new experiences and hopefully learning from it.

We need to stop perceiving folks who boldly share their experiences and personal musings and lessons from it as damaged goods to be avoided. Broken hinges and scratched up LP's to be shunned and condescended to or insultingly pitied. If COVID-19 and the shelter in place restrictions teach us anything let it teach us to mindfully appreciate the humanity of others despite the face their deep inner wounds put on their actions and personas. Let it teach us to stop making assumptions about who or what a person or his or her life is.

May the light that shines in me shine in you also and be with you always! 🙏

I personally don't mind insult and disrespect generally speaking. I learn and thrive from it. I even embrace it.

After years of self muting self degradation and self annihilation I'm pretty much prepared to deal with anything. I don't have expectations. I just take one moment as is. Here today gone tomorrow. That's been my life mantra. Nothing is real. Nothing is promised.

I give with the satisfaction of giving my best effort, acknowledged or not. It's the giving that keeps me going. Just the ability to give and nothing else.

Likewise I speak with the pleasure of being able to not the expectation of being responded to. When I message these days I don't expect or even at times want a response. I respond out of respect for having been messaged . And I find a strange kind of pleasure in giving myself that kind of liberty.

So now I feel no unmet need for reciprocation of any kind. If I do it's only because I fleetingly want it. As I focus my thoughts on other things that matter to me, that engages my mind in useful purposeful activity I forget about that desire. Whatever that desire is and it just goes away . Life goes on with the next thing.

TheLilSpoon

And just like that, @ImajenMoon you have somehow put back together a little bit of my brokeness. I agree with all of your words. To be able to achieve your mentality is my new goal in life. To have a cup with you would be my complete honor.

What a time to be in need of a physical hug or cuddle.

geoff1000

In "Schindler's List" Oscar Schindler explains that if a person always exercises their power ( be it physical, emotional, legal etc. ) to the limit, they are a slave to it, and they actually have no power. Much like Golum in Lord of the Rings with his "Precious" ; it takes them over, and they eventually lose control of themselves. Pull the pin out of a hand grenade, let the lever fly off, and a few seconds later, it will explode ; the grenade has no choice, the power lies with the person pulling the pin.

People who are unpleasant, similarly have no power, no choice to behave in an unpleasant way. When we say to ourselves "This
person is not deserving of my efforts" because they are being ungrateful / non-reciprocating / unpleasant ; we can nevertheless continue to help them, and we are choosing to go against the "expected response". We are choosing to exercise, less than our power ( to justifiably "dump" them ), meaning that we have control over it.

Every so often, this works out well. Thomas Edison said ( roughly ) that there comes a time in every endeavour, when success seems impossible, and that is when one must be determined.

Sometimes I give people the benefit of the doubt.
Other times I give people what they ask ; fully expecting it to be unreciprocated, so that I can confirm my low opinion of them. Every so often, this "fails" and they surprise me. Many years ago, when I had fallen out with a young lady, we met at a party. I asked her to dance, fully expecting her to say no, which would have given me the chance for a very juvenile and crude reply ( paraphrased as "Then I guess intercourse is out of the question" ). But she said yes. Perhaps my subconscious had decided it was time for a reconciliation, and found a way to circumvent my conscious opposition.

More recently, I had to decide whether or not to help someone who was in a predicament of their own making. I recognised that they were undeserving of my help, and I would be fully justified in telling them straight, that they had abused my trust, and I wanted nothing more to do with them. It wasn't easy, mentally preparing myself for that severance ; and I would normally only have done that, if I had decided to give up on them. This time, I chose to see how the confrontation went, to effectively let them decide, what outcome they wanted.

They have chosen to take my help, and chosen self-imposed conditions to demonstrate they are "going straight". I feel as if I am in the middle of a story, anxious to see how it works out.

Anyway - The hard part for me in this, wasn't the choice to be supportive, it was the serious contemplation of not being supportive. However, I think it was my demonstrable willingness to let go, which made them realise they had to change. Hanging a sign on the wall, saying "Last Chance Saloon" is sometimes necessary.

Lovelight

@Bles

"I wouldn't call him a narcissist though he may have exhibited such tendencies. I am just a natural giver. He misunderstood my giving nature and took it for granted. At times even perceiving it as a sign of weakness. ..." I agree with much, if not all of what you said in that section. Sometimes we need to step back and look at the full picture. Or others to help us do that. Sounds like you're on a good path, and I'm on a similar path to recovery, self rejuvenation, etc.

Finding the balance between being supportive and knowing when to let go can be tough. Personally I'm at a point where I don't see much use in telling others how I feel about essentially their abandonment of me, which most have mostly shown through their actions. I get that there's still some importance in finding out that perhaps they just need some space: going through really difficult times. Though even that could fall into my other category.

In a way I try to take elements of business/work with some more flexibility/compassion/ sprinkled, because I get that social life shouldn't be as rigid and cold as work life. I try to make a habit of asking questions such as: "what would a decent, well rounded boss/employer say about this (~work equivalent) behavior?" and throw a bit of compassionate concepts like "What would (someone compassionate, caring, etc) say?" for some comfy measures. Then try to find the more or less comfortable outcome. Alternatively one could look up to healthy relationship role models, or combine all these concepts if it suits.

I also think people can either naturally meet much of my social needs, or they can't. One of those factors which I've yet to improve is not wasting too much time waiting (or chasing) 'friends'* who lack much of the necessary (for whatever the reasons) communicational skills to say for themselves what's up. Or who aren't meeting much of my other needs.

If I'm feeling the need to constantly bring up how they're mistreating me/our relationship, how they aren't doing this or that for me: then I think it's best I let go after giving some time to see if they improve on their own. Because otherwise they are likely to be trying to do things that just isn't in their nature, and I don't think that's for me. I acknowledge that there isn't perfection. So I try to figure out more of the level of imperfection I'm willing to tolerate, and why.

geoff1000

A joke went the rounds when I was a kid :
"How do you keep an idiot in suspense ?"
"I don't know, how do you ?"
"I'll tell you tomorrow"

A bad experience costs us time, money, effort, emotional resource etc. etc.
What can be more "expensive", is the endless soul-searching and rumination, spent trying to make sense of it.
The plot of a Cold War novel, is the "accidental" loss to Russia of a complex US-made electronic device that has no function ; intended to tie up the best Russian brains trying to understand it.

A psychological experiment was done in which the "participant" was given the choice of two electronic switches, and presented with a series of 6-digit numbers. A press of one switch gave a food reward, the other gave an electric shock. Sometimes the switches worked one way ( A = food, B = shock ), and sometimes the other way ( A = shock, B = food ).

The participants who suffered most, were the ones who considered themselves "intelligent", and reasoned that there must be a pattern between the 6-digit number, and the effect of the switches, if only they could understand it.

There wasn't a pattern, it was random. Maybe sometimes we have to stop trying to understand things, which seem to have no pattern ; like we do with lottery numbers or roulette wheels.

Lovelight

@geoff1000 interesting!

I feel like I've had Psychic Soul Surgery performed on my guts!!!! You folks ROCK!!! I'll be reading AND RE-READING these very posts for a few weeks to come.. After reading these, the first few times, it felt like I got sucked into he!!---like I finally really met my "shadow". A crippled, raging, ugly, hateful thing, that I'd hidden, so carefully, from even myself. The RAGE...right in the pit of my stomach... Almost made me sick, and it lasted for a few days. Been dealing with that..

Even more than the excitement and delight I felt upon finding this site that offers long, lazy, extended physical, platonic cuddling, I realize that THIS is what I was really after... THIS kind of kindness, sharing, this amazing and truly beautiful, very human ability to bind up one another's woundedness----THIS is (and even more, now) that for which my Inner led me to join.

You all have NOT disappointed!!

Imajen

P.S., Oh, and @TheLilSpoon? I think you're aiming too low. I think that when you find your own Deep Gift, we'll ALL be blessed and touched by its Uniqueness and Power! Thank you!

I hope that all of you find someone who is worth the time and energy.

(This is a long post divided in two parts because it was too long, be ready for it. Scan through first.)

I have been in this situation for a couple of years.
One big mistake is thinking that the people who show faulty behaviors like not responding time after time, only showing up/texting when they need something, frequently canceling meetings a half hour before the meeting for lame reasons such as ‘I did not know what to wear”, bringing you down etc will change if you tell them/show them with your actions that you care and look out for them.

At 13 years old I noticed that I would barely hang out with friends if I did not take the initiative. I found it strange that it was always me who needed to take the initiative and that I would not hang out if I did not. Back then, everyone always responded and me reaching out to them resulted in hanging out so I took it that I was the “Initiative -taker’ and was okay with it.

At 16 years old I noticed that half of my friends ignored me and that a lot of people I talked/ hung out with were not real with me. I also thought that my friends would by now show a little initiative but they did not except for when they needed something or one of their plans got canceled. I kept giving them attention and showed them that I was fond of them believing/hoping that they would come around.

At 19 years old almost nobody responded to me. Even my close friends did not respond to me most of the time and when they did I got a “I’m busy” and that’s it. I tried to reschedule every time ,but that would lead to them canceling a half hour before the meet up or telling me that they would let me know and then never come back to me with the answer, even when I asked them again. They would respond with a ‘I don’t know’. I tried asking them face to face if something was up because they did make time for others. One thing was for sure, I had not changed or done anything to hurt them. They would say that they did not have time yet hang out with others. They are not overly occupied with school, sports, hobbies or anything. I was sure of it.

Later in my 19th year I was tired of this and decided to let those people go. Because of what happened over the years. I did not care as much about interacting with others like I used to. I came to the conclusion that a lot of people are not that special and that I should not waste my time and attention on people who do not reciprocate as it has no use. I did however not lose sight of the fact that good people are definitely out there and that I will meet them.

This is what I have learned
1.Don’t wait until/hope/ think that people will change.
Let them show you that they are changed without any influence from you and let it come to you as a surprise. I can tell you that this will not happen most of the time.

2.Don’t invest your time in people who do not reciprocate.
It is good to take the initiative but do not be needy and naïve. You should only take the initiative twice in a row. Thrice max if you really like the person. If they don’t reciprocate accept it and cut them loose. They will take from you what they can get and then disappear. Leaving you confused and feeling empty.

3.You yourself decide what is acceptable and what is not.
It is you who must set boundaries and decide if you will put up with something or not. If you let somebody take advantage of you once they’ll know that they can come back later to try it again and it will be clear to others that they can use you. So don’t allow others to dump their problems on you every time and disappear when its their turn. Next time you will not listen to their problems anymore. Let them know that you have changed.

And last
4.Never, really absolutely never settle for someone who behaves badly because you are bored/lonely/emotional deprived.
This will not resolve your boredom/loneliness/emotional state because you will think that your needs are going to be met but they will not which will make it worse.

The key to dealing with energy vampires is to just let them go when you see that they do not care for you as you do for them. Some of you will then think “but that means that I won’t have a lot of/ any people to connect with” It is better to only connect with those 2 or 3 people who are worth your attention. Sometimes there is nobody around, I give you that. My opinion is that its better to be alone than to be with people who behave badly and don’t add much to your life. One thing to remember is that you don’t need other people. It is just fun to have some good ones around but they should complement your life not be the main thing and not even come close to disrupting it. Don’t depend on them.

Want to see a movie? Go watch it by yourself
Want to eat at your favorite restaurant? Go eat there by yourself.
Want to spend the day at the beach? Do it by yourself.

I always saw it as failure to do such activities on my own. I was even ashamed of it as I thought it was the one way to show others that you are the worse kind of loser who nobody wants to be with. Heavy right. Its weird I don’t even remember how I came to think like that. I decided that it does not matter what other people think of me and that should just enjoy the things I like. If that includes going to the cinema to watch a movie on my own or eating in a restaurant at a table for two alone. So be it. I don’t care. A lot of you will be scared or maybe feel weird about doing these things on your own. Especially at the beginning. I have been doing this longer than a year now and I am more than pleased. You will see that the movie is still great, that you still enjoy eating the food of your favorite restaurant and that the sun on your skin still feels amazing. And all of that without others who behave faulty or are complaining.