Requiring payment before meeting

edited September 2020 in General

EDIT: The below were my feelings at the time. My position now is that I won't pre-pay before hearing or seeing someone real-time in some way, am open to partial pre-pay after that, and will only fully pre-pay in-person (all if I'm still comfortable with you of course). My post was not meant to interfere with legit pros, just scammers and shady ones. Yes, guys can be shady and scammers too. PS it's OK to express your opinion on topics but not attack people, especially not repetitively or across threads. Thank you.

ORIGINAL POST:

Don't do it. It's how scammers operate. I've been scammed before this way. Unless someone's got an established business location that you can go visit, don't ever pay before knowing they're real. It applies in anything, real life, online, and here. I've been paid for services and I never needed the money first. Neither does anyone here.

If someone here requires payment before you can see or hear them interacting with you, state you'll do it when you know they're real. Even then I wouldn't recommend it until you're halfway through. If they decline or are rude or block you, be glad you kept your money. It's an unreasonable expectation. Most have been nice and trustworthy here. Trust but verify. That's all I have to say about it.

  1. What has your experience been with pre-pay?5 votes
    1. Good enough
      40.00%
    2. Not good enough
      60.00%
«1

Comments

  • @davebutton - Are you trying to stir up something?

  • edited September 2020

    ....

  • @Mike403 No, are you? Maybe you disagree with my assertion.

  • edited September 2020

    Thanks @pmvines for your unsolicited negative assertion as usual against something legit that's allowed on this site that probably shouldn't be. Guess what, maybe my post will make someone think twice about people requiring this, and they won't get ripped off. Do you think people don't get scammed easily this way? Next time take a second thought at what I post.

  • @davebutton - With that logic, we shouldn't buy from an independent reseller(Ebay, Amazon Marketplace) unless they send us the product first.

  • edited September 2020

    @Mike403 Guess what I've been scammed on eBay too. But a phone call or video chat is a lot different than sending a product or meeting in person, right? Thats how you verify. If someone won't even do that, they're not legit to me.

    Strange that I'm getting such negative resistance to his.

  • @davebutton - You said you still wouldn't recommend it until you're halfway through. Halfway through the session?

  • @Mike403 Halfway through a video session, yes. But realistically that hasn't been needed, I've paid after connection up through the middle to afterword. I absolutely pay for what people deliver. I don't pay before connection anymore, period. Maybe you do and support and promote that, I dont, I'm recommending against it.

    Anyway, you're obviously not my target audience, but I'm curious why you're resistant to my recommendation.

  • @davebutton I'm not getting into a back and forth with you. Your posting history says enough about your knee jerk histrionics and entitlement when things dont go your way . Night night

  • @davebutton - If they been on the site for awhile and have positive karma rating, I'd feel more comfortable prepaying. People should make their own judgement calls. This post is just coming across as negative to this profession.

  • @pmvines I was never interested in going back and forth with you, but you are the type to dredge up anything you can to criticize someone you don't fully agree with instead of just stating why you disagree or any logic against the initial assertion, unlike Mike thankfully. At least he made some cogent arguments against my assertion.

    You attack the person instead of the assertion.

  • edited September 2020

    You are in your mid 40s and start threads devoted to smearing 19 yr old women who dare to block you and tell you they didn't feel comfortable around you . Yeah. You don't have a ton of credibility with me when you start these rants and then go off when people dont pat you on the back or say something contrary to you . But again I am not doing this with you ...

  • @Mike403 I understand, and I've been scammed by people that are popular or have been established or have good ratings. You can't leave a rating if you're blocked, right? I'm not just talking about here, either. I wouldn't even be posting this if it just happened once here.

    I don't feel comfortable anymore pre-paying, in fact I'm vehemently against it with the negative experiences I've had, including people who knee-jerk into bad-mouthing and blocking when I just state my rule that I started a while ago (that I don't pre-pay). Somebody here thinks I'm knee-jerk? Boy would they be surprised at what I've seen.

    You know, I've stated my rule and recommendation before, as a reply to a post, and I didn't get attacked for it. Thank you Mike for at least being centered on the issue and not bulldogging the person.

    Anyway, I have a right to post a thread against something I dislike and distrust now, warning others less experiences against it, especially with the reactions I've gotten outside of the forum to my rule, learned the hard way. Maybe it doesn't happen to you, I'm glad for your fortune or whatever. Now I'm glad for my fortune. I hope someone else finds the same fortune.

    And honestly I have a hard time feeling like I'm doing anything negative to a profession when an unreasonable requirement is so easily used to scam people while they continue doing business. Yes, it's less here than other places thankfully. But I still think an unreasonable requirement is unreasonable, and it's OK for me to say so, and for others to disagree without it getting into the dirt or off-center.

  • @davebutton - Somebody being a legit pro then later deciding to turn scammer later I think is probably not that common unless their account got hacked. There are bad pros who shows up then leaves before the session is over without a good reason. Anything you do involves risks.

  • edited September 2020

    @pmvines Here you go making it personal about issues outside of the thread and in the past again, like you always do instead of addressing the issue... Do you actually have a cogent argument against what I said, or are you all about targeting side/past drama to distract and get some sort of virtue-signaling edge? I think that's what you're really about.

    Since you brought it up,like the drama dredger that you are, completely off-point (you should host a Jerry Springer type show, seriously), my age and her age don't matter to this thread or any others. I bet a lot of people would say age really doesn't matter. And I didn't smear her, I told the facts. You wanna dispute it? Message me. You didn't seem to read or understand or care about most of what I wrote anyway, why would I think you will here or will anytime soon?

    I guarantee you're gonna be an attack dog for any issue I or others you don't like will bring up with the site, or any practice we feel is an issue here. Attacking the person, you do, far more than the assertion.

    Do you agree with what I said or not? I bet you forgot the original assertion. You are the most distracting holier-than-thou gallows dredger I've ever seen here, and it looks like it's for virtue points. You haven't made one damn claim based on what I initially posted here yet, just all old drama stuff you salivate over stewing through again

    Requiring payment before hearing or seeing the person is not legit. I don't even care whether you agree, because you don't seem to care about the issue!

    Go ahead and dredge up every gripe you have with other's past, it's completely ignorant of the issue I brought up. That just shows you're focused more on drama and being the virtue king any way you can than legit issues.

    Butt out if this thread unless you're gonna state an opinion about my initial assertion, and stop attacking people because you don't like them.

  • edited September 2020

    Thanks @Mike403 for being cogent and making at least some logical arguments I can understand, instead of just distracting with Jerry Springer drama reruns.

    I agree that the default assumption is that pros are not likely to rip people off, but it has happened. They take the money and block or deactivate. Maybe it just looked like that, but similar things have happened on similar platforms.

    Unfortunately I didn't report that one here because I didn't see the way back then and I was new and they got banned anyway, but I've only been asked three times here, and I said I only pay after connection and got blocked both times. That's ridiculous. I don't care what your karma is, both ladies were saying and doing scammy things, some of which I've posted here.

    Why anyone thinks I'm attacking the community or pros is beyond me, I'm making an assertion about a practice I disagree with and dislike and have found to be generally scammy and untrustworthy. I'm OK if anyone disagrees with it, but at least say why and don't attack the person for unrelated things.

    I understand that some pros feel safer getting payment first, but the ones I've had this experience with treated me badly when I declined, and this was after being scammed. No discussion. Just "no" and blocked. I didn't ask for anything unreasonable. I just stated my rule. Boom, bomb in my face. That's really lame. Now I don't trust them AT ALL, when before I just questioned.

    I think the practice shouldn't happen. That's my assertion. I welcome disagreement, I shame personal attacks. If expecting prepayment makes pros safer, great. I won't do it unless I've heard or seen you real-time, period. That's my recommendation. Halfway through? Just a recommendation based on experience. Nobody has to take it seriously. It's a lighter recommendation. Do what works. Just do what's reasonable for you, I'm just bringing something up I see too often and I think is a concern and should be thought about first and not make it a slagfest flamewar between people.

  • Other side of the coin.

    I booked a session in another state based on one client repeatedly asking me to come to him to cuddle for an overnight.

    I finally gave in and rented a car, drove 5 hours one way and booked a hotel.

    The client? Oh yeah, he cancelled.
    After I arrived.

    Thankfully I was able to recover some of my costs with other sessions, but I lost money and my time at home where I could have been seeing other clients who don't cancel at the last minute.

    Had I requested even just a partial payment up front, this would have been avoided altogether.

  • [Deleted User]SanFranResident (deleted user)

    Eh. I've been scammed before. Multiple times actually. Still, I don't really have a problem with paying cuddlers before a session, virtual or otherwise. Especially if they have some positive karma, but even if not. Because most of the time we're talking about some random young woman meeting a strange man who she doesn't know if she can trust... and for me it's worth it to establish some level of trust, even if it does come at some level of risk.

  • edited September 2020

    @envie Thank you for telling your side. Part of why I posted this was to see this. You make legit concerns and reasons for requesting or requiring pre-payment: travel and time spent. While I did service the same way and only got paid after work done, your work here is a little different. Some professionals and professions do require pre-payment.

    During a pandemic or lack of availability locally in some areas however, requiring full payment before even hearing or seeing someone for a real-time virtual/video chat has become ridiculous to me. My anger fueled the way I phrased my initial post. You have some good points that are legit, especially for your example. I agree with you on partial pre-payment there.

    So really I guess my assertion is that I think someone requiring full pre-payment for a virtual chat before even hearing or seeing them in real-time (not in-person) is unreasonable and to me scammy; it's not much skin off anyone's back to connect on a call or video chat just to check first, because I spent as much time talking or whatever beforehand with that person as they have with me. In fact I think they wasted their time because they wouldn't even discuss it (just blocked), and I really don't know how they're getting scammed with 10 seconds to a minute of real-time audio/visual connection to verify.

    Thanks for piping up. I think the issue needs to be reconsidered by guys here doing virtual meets during this pandemic, because it's so much easier to hoodwink people this way. I'm sorry if my opinion is disliked. PS It's not a personal statement about you or anyone.

  • I’m perfectly fine with someone saying they won’t pay upfront but to say it’s unreasonable and that it’s something that shouldn’t be done at all just because you’ve had bad experiences is something I disagree with. I myself would only take a chunk of the payment for a session upfront if I have to drive an hour or more. Either than that, I like to meet at a coffee shop right before and then when we get to the cuddle place, I take the payment before we begin. Although at that moment, we’ve already had some ice breaking time.

    Now, I’m just curious. You’re fine with paying directly before the cuddle? Like, we are standing on either sides of the bed, about to get snuggly and then I mention payment upfront based on site rules. That’s agreeable for you? I understand you have been scammed but like others have mentioned, it’s a risk on either side but with more risks and scares on the woman’s side, taking payment upfront solidifies trust and if the cuddler acts up and gets sexual or tries to do even worse than that, we can get out of there but still have our payment to make that horrible situation have some kind of positive.

  • edited September 2020

    @SanFranResident Thanks for your opinion. I guess I take a little more personally the time I've spent messaging people that I like here, and it's super-disappointing to just have them fly off the handle and accuse me of something and block me for saying I don't pay until I know they're real. It's an easy small chore for virtual. A lot of video chats have been better than in-person therapy for me, because it's outside of the expected clinical paradigm and more down-to-earth with less expectations.

    PS I think the assumption here is being made of my assertion more on the side of in-person meets, when I really meant more about virtual online chats. I'm sorry I didn't clarify that initially.

    Every local person I've met with I did not require audio/visual verification beforehand... but then again none of them have asked for pre-payment (and only half were pros anyway). I did start calling local people before meeting though to make sure I could get a better handle on what they were like, as texting and messaging has been wildly different than in-person sometimes.

  • edited September 2020

    @Sheena123 Alright thank you for disagreeing without attacking me XD I'm completely open to being wrong without things getting personal.

    You are however talking about a chunk of payment before in-person meet vs full payment before virtual meet. So maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post. The issues I've had have always been with requiring full payment for virtual sessions before hearing or seeing the person real-time. All three times that I was requested that, I had bad experiences no matter what I did. Thankfully I didn't lose money in some of them, and won't anymore.

    Per your last paragraph, I've never not paid someone before touching in-person (full payment while they were there, partial before they arrived but I talked with them on the phone), when they requested it, and I haven't been ripped off that way either from anyone here. That I understand. So I think my initial post was not clear enough. Unfortunately I take a lot of risk by posting a problem I have here, but I did despite the morality gestapo because I think it's valuable for some guys to see and for some pros to make an opinion on.

    I'm 100% for discussion being on the table without people attacking each other. Thank you.

  • @davebutton find and use a trusted online escrow service. It's a minimal fee for peace of mind. Once the session is over the pro recieves her payment. Both parties are happy.

    Or just refuse to pay anyone who refuses to show themselves via video chat even for a brief 2 mins.

  • edited September 2020

    @Envie Escrow is probably a good idea.

    Honestly I think I am at the point where if I don't at least talk to someone on the phone, I simply won't pre-pay for anything. In-person or online, I have to know you're real and were the person I was talking to. I've just messaged too many bots and foreigners and dudes using ladies' pics and vids, some with throw-away VOIP phone numbers.

    Locally in-person I think I would prefer to also see a candid real-time selfie as well, the day of the meetup, which I'm happy trading, and is easy and fair. And I don't think I'd pre-pay in full before meeting. I think that's unreasonable. I've had so many flakes that I wonder how many were scammers. If they decline my one bottom rule (real-time verification), OK great, at least don't be a jerk about it XD That's what got me mad. A few people being a jerk about it. But I don't think it's a stretch to think that other guys should hear my opinion about the initial concern.

    Sorry if it came off like a rant. I know some don't take me seriously, and I don't take them seriously. But I like the discussion and opinions on it at least. It helps me come to a better perspective, and I hope some other guys and gals too.

  • edited September 2020

    I'm sorry I haven't read everyone's reply. I'm sure I'm a horrible person for something I did somewhere sometime, and someone will point it out ad-infinitum. I just got so upset at some outsider coming in to flame who they think I am instead of having an opinion on the original assertion that I don't want to get more incensed and distracted with outside attacks. I'll read the rest when I'm not distracted and incensed, because I care about legit opinion on the issue.

    Pros please forgive any lack of knowledge or understanding that I have of your experience; I bet you're not like these other ladies who've either acted in bad faith or had bad intentions or didn't care to give good intentions. I'm sure some I think were bad weren't. I can't tell now of course, just the ones I know did a bad thing. I'm not gonna say the site is perfect and doesn't let some crookery through the cracks.

    Guys and gals are not special, nor are they bad. Some people do bad things and sometimes there's misunderstandings. I feel OK voicing my concern because there was legit thought about it as I've seen here. Thanks to those who did that. It just builds knowledge and wisdom. I don't really care if you think I'm dumb and horrible XD I still have the capability to learn and advise with what I know and opine constructively even if it sounds harsh and quick. Sorry I'm not socially smooth.

  • [Deleted User]kindnessfirst (deleted user)

    I’m still pretty new to this community but in my limited experience on another site was to pay a deposit and or pay upon my arrival. If travels involved I’d now ask for a deposit to insure I don’t waste my time for a no show. That would be frustrating.
    If they’d like the session to go longer that’s a good place to get up and take a break and ask them to please pay. Because I once lost an hours pay by not asking right away and being too trusting.

  • I think it is generally agreed that in this business, the female is more at risk than the male. Most of us would say that losing a little money, doesn't equate to even the mildest physical boundary pushing.

    That means the male is asking the female for a great deal of trust, and it only seems reasonable to offer some in return.

    Many businesses require payment up front, and some even require a deposit which is returned only if they deem the customer acted properly.

    Customers don't have to pay up front for anything, if they choose to not use the service. Cuddling is such a broad concept, there is no objective measurement to decide that the customer got their money's worth ; so if payment was only made after the session, or even during it, any customer could say they only got a poor or partial service and feel justified in paying only a fraction or none.

    My feeling is that paying for cuddling is a form of gambling, so the same rules apply ; enjoy your wins, and maybe hope for them, but don't stake what you can't afford to lose. There is no way to determine in advance, which cuddle sessions will go well, and which won't occur at all.

  • edited September 2020

    @davebutton At this point, it’s very obvious your less than favorable experiences have caused some bitterness, which is causing you to issue these “warnings” to people.

    Your post comes off as very negative. You’re generalizing and judging an entire group of people, which isn’t very fair.

    Everyone is different. You shouldn’t judge others because of your past experiences with someone else. Many pros on this site have been cheated out of their money and/or sexually assaulted by a client at some point. I’m sure you wouldn’t it find it very fair to be thrown into the same category as those bad men simply because you’re a man too.

    I always require full payment for virtual sessions before even beginning the session and I don’t send additional photos or videos beforehand.... so according to your posts, people shouldn’t trust a pro like me because I require full payment before the session begins and that is scammy behavior...interesting.

    If a pro scams someone, she will be banned from the site and it will be impossible to come back again. If an enthusiast scams someone and gets banned, they can simply make a new profile and do it again.

    You’ve obviously been struggling with moving past your negative experiences. If these things carry such a burden and cause you to have such hostility, you should consider taking a breather from the site and come back when you’re in a more positive mindset.

  • Just to offer another perspective... I trust my gut. If the cuddler requires a partial payment in advance; and they seem legit to me; and I want to see them - I pay it and I’ve never been scammed. I’ve done this many times on this site and others without any problems.

    However, if the cuddler seems sketchy, or is brand new without much karma from clients - I probably wouldn’t.

    I guess this is all about how much risk both parties are willing to take. However, I think the risks in this transaction are much greater for the cuddler. They are carving out a portion of their “work day” in anticipation of payment instead of scheduling with another AND they may be traveling great distances AND they show up at a strangers place and climb into bed with them trusting that they won’t be assaulted.

    Risking a few buck with someone who seems legit pales in comparison. That just my humble opinion.

  • A time-management coach advised "always get other people to come to you". Great, but unfortunately, this advice can't be followed by both parties.

    It is best for pros to be fully paid in advance ; and best for clients to only pay afterwards, and only as much as they think is fair. Again, incompatible.

    I think this thread is really just highlighting that when a male and a female meet, and money is involved ; it is almost always that the male is paying the female. In any business arrangement, the client should feel they got their money's worth.

    Some men would only be happy with a paid meet, if they were the one getting paid. However, any man can set themselves up as a CC pro ; they just have to be willing to cuddle men. Those that wouldn't, have to recognise that females who cuddle non-partner males ( for money or otherwise ), are very special ; and need as much respect and kindness from us as we can possibly manage.

    My idea of a non-partner cuddle, is that the man should make the woman so happy, that they feel they ought to be paying. If men aren't learning that skill, then what's the point ? A teacher cannot sit the exam for the student.

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