Are folks looking for a moment of serenity... a stress reliever or a person to date

Destiny01

I’m curious...... it seems that a lot of folks are looking for someone to date instead of a professional cuddles session....... my massage clients come and enjoy the experience I give them with no other expectations..... I’m new to cuddling here... but my in my experience, cuddling is done from the heart..... this is supposed to be a therapeutic experience.....am I missing something here.... or is a dating site mixed in with the cuddling intent.... folks say they want somebody who genuinely cares for them..... you have to genuinely have the love for people to provide this service.... I know I ask a lot of questions but I’m still feeling my way around

TheFunCartel

@Destiny01 You can ask 100 people and there would be 100 different levels, interpretations and perceptions of expectation. I appreciate the experience and the calm but that’s me. The person behind me may hope to find a date or something else. People are a crap shoot no matter where you go and how you change things. The key in life is to accept this and just do you.

geoff1000

I'd like to know the difference between people who :
1. Date, meet regularly, maybe move in together ; and cuddle, but don't kiss or have sex.
2. Are long-term and exclusive platonic cuddle partners.

People in (1) might be asexual, or just have outgrown that. I guess I'm saying that we can't meaningfully determine the difference between a white horse with black stripes, and a black horse with white stripes.

Exclusively isn't a good factor either, as there are polyamorous people in group 1.

The "Which came first, the chicken or the egg ?", question, is easily ( and only ) answered ; by having a good definition of each.

@FunCartel says here, and @DarrenWalker says elsewhere, that trying to put a label on someone is a bit of a fool's errand. The Guinness Book of World Records might define the minimum number of hairs to qualify as a beard, but we all have our own ideas.

Self-identification may be the only solution, describing people according to how they want to be described. My Dad quit smoking 55 years ago, but for many years still referred to himself as a smoker.

Does a person change from bisexual to straight / gay, if they don't have sex with the other gender for a while ; like pilots must have regular flying experience, to keep their licence current ?

@geoff1000: Hmm. If people are dating, well, that sounds like a romantic relationship to me. If they're cuddling, not dating—well, that doesn't imply romance, does it? Edit: Of course, this is about what they're doing, not who they are. Very different people often do the same things for different reasons. It's a mistake to think you can tell, with 100% certainty, who someone is based on what they're doing. Or seem to be doing.

In any case, sticking labels (which are shorthand for definitions) on people and objects is, broadly speaking, fine. The main thing is that you shouldn't see them as more important than reality or communication: "Dog," for instance, is a useful label for lots of four-legged fuzzy things that bark, yap, and yip, and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with using that label for all of them, but if you want to communicate well with somebody who says that four-legged, fuzzy, yapping thing over there is a "fox," not a "dog"( or if the thing you're calling a "dog" is actually meowing and you just think it's a bark because there's something up with the audio processing part of your brain)—well.

The whole point of labels and definitions, after all, is to 1) order things in human minds and 2) enable communication between human minds. So you can slap whatever label you like on a thing, and have that label work just fine for keeping things tidy in your own mind (yes, even if you're wrong, and the thing you're calling a "dog," say, doesn't actually have four legs, you just think it does)—but if you want to talk to somebody who else who has a different label for that thing than you do, you'll want to make some vocabulary adjustments.

Take "sexual orientation," for example.

Personally, I figure it has to do with who you're sexually oriented towards—that is, who you're sexually attracted to, who you're drawn to have sex with. Attraction, not action.

So you could have, say, a celibate monk who, despite never having sex, is still straight: if he could have sex without breaking his vows, he'd like to do it with a woman. He feels drawn to some (or maybe even all) of the women he sees, finds them sexually attractive. Doesn't do anything about it, mind you. But he still feels that attraction—so I'd still call him straight. Or, alternatively, you could have an exceedingly unfortunate whore who doesn't want to have sex with other men (he's drawn to have it with women), but men are his client base and he needs to live, so he spreads his legs even though he's not sexually attracted to his customers at all. I'd call him straight, too.

Of course, there's always the question of acquired taste... but until someone starts feeling sexually drawn to what they weren't before, I'll stick on the label that lines up with who they're attracted to now.

I wouldn't say defining and labelling are fool's errands.

Just be aware of what you're doing. A label (like "dog") is just a word, shorthand for a definition, which is a list of qualities (like "four-legged, fuzzy, barks"). That's useful. It's handy. But don't get too cocky, because there's always a chance that when you say "dog" to someone else their list of definitions might be different to yours... and some of the things on your list might not match the thing you're pointing at, anyway.

TouchSanctuary

I think websites like this are always going to be a mixed bag, and it's partly because what people think they want consciously may not be what they really want unconsciously. It takes a lot of self awareness and insight to figure out what we really want on a more unconscious level.

geoff1000

@DarrenWalker
There's a joke among Star Wars fans, about Princess Leia calling Han Solo a "nerf herder". When asked what this is, the stock answer is "someone who herds nerfs".

If "dating" is used to help determine that people aren't platonically cuddling, then we'd need a definition of that ; but the only one I hear, is that it is non-platonic. A circular definition.

Think of people walking along a street. Some are going shopping at the local 7-11 ; and some are walking to the train station, to go to the airport, to fly to Australia. It can be very difficult to tell them apart ; and even harder to know which of the shoppers would actually prefer to be on their way to Australia.

"Intent" is very hard to measure. It can be everything from a vague interest, to a fanatical desire ; but either might evaporate, when the situation arises. The legal system has "conspiracy to" and "acts preparatory to" ; but it doesn't, and can't properly, act on a person's internal thoughts. In "Law Abiding Citizen", Gerald Butler's character "confesses" to wanting someone dead, and imagining killing them ; but that isn't a criminal offence.

The Ten Commandments get around that, by forbidding the "coveting" of another's property ; as well as the actual theft of it. However, that only makes sense if there is an all-knowing God to police it.

@geoff1000: Weeeell, I kinda figure dating is a stage of romantic relationships in humans whereby two people meet socially with the aim of each assessing the other's suitability as a prospective partner in an intimate relationship. So, basically... two people exploring whether they're romantically or sexually compatible.

So, you know. Trying to figure out if they like each other enough to wanna bang regularly, basically. That's sort of the whole point of a date, right? Intent isn't exactly hidden here.

geoff1000

@DarrenWalker
OK. So how would you tell, by observation, if two people are in the early stages of dating, or if they are meeting to assess their suitability for a long-term platonic cuddling relationship ?

Is it possible for a relationship to be platonic, even if one party would like it to be romantic ? What if that party imagines the relationship is romantic, even though it isn't physically true ?

If two people cuddle in a movie theatre, how many acts of affection are needed, to cross the line from platonic to romantic ? Is there a penalty points system, like failing one's driving test, with major and minor errors ?

When we've sorted that out ; what's the threshold between a sexual relationship, and "friends with benefits" ? What if the "benefit" is only platonic cuddling ?

@geoff1000: ...Why've I gotta be the one to tell? Shouldn't they be the ones doing it?

And yeah, I've had friendly relationships with people who wanted romantic relationships, so it works but in my experience not for very long, so I would call it technically possible but probably not sustainable. Same for the imagining, because reality tends to be the kind of thing that insists on making itself known after a while in situations like this, unless you've got a real knack for ignoring it (which I don't recommend because I personally value awareness of reality over delusion, even if the delusions are really nice).

So far as cuddling at the movies goes, well, it'd never be romantic for me no matter what, so I suspect the answer varies from person to person (and, again, the people involved should be the ones keeping track of this, they're the ones with the information).

Your last question is... well, I'm just finding it confusing.

If you're friends with cuddle benefits but not sex benefits, it seems pretty clear that you're on the platonic side of the line, yeah? Stick sex in and suddenly you're on the sex side of the line, right? I'm not sure where the question is, exactly.

Destiny01

I understand that not wanting to label things and obviously dating means something different .... and no matter how I describe my POV of what dating actually means to me...... because it’s a difference from they went on a date several and they are dating....... I can meet a client regularly and we may do ice cream or dinner as part of our cuddling sessions, however, I’m not dating that person..... I just went on a date with that person ... dating - in terms of being a couple (rather they have sex or not.... (for lots of married couple will never have sex but they are still married and committed to exclusively to one another) is in search of finding that one to be exclusive with

My question referred to people that are looking for an exclusive or sexual relationship.... both reasons folks date....... and hopefully not to be twisted into a knot to become an “I only go to this barber for this is my barber” or I do private nursing and only have I patient regularly..... this is the problem with not labeling..... it leaves things to broad and to be implied and that’s not a good thing although it maybe comfortable ...... this new “let’s not put a label on things “ is not free, it’s problematic...... we can word play all day... even if I put relationship..... should I go back to actually saying boyfriend and girlfriend? Or will that get switched to an if you have a friend that is a boy? Hence the reason labels ARE important....... there are a lot of miscommunication going around today? The intent of a dating website is to find someone to become one with.....that is not a cuddler and client relationship...... on here, you are a client even though I love our time together.... you can even be a favorite and I genuinely love you.... not just my I love everybody and everybody I am with, I do it with love and love what I do.... but really have a deep love for you .... I have had patients who have become my family because I connect with people and human connection is extremely important ..... but it’s natural for me.... nurses are taught not to not get emotionally connected to their patients ... when I worked the cancer unit, seeing the same patients daily caused you ok me.... to become emotionally connected and I gained a love as in family......

As adults.... there is a possibility of falling in love with someone in this type of setting ... it’s natural .... however, people intent is to find someone to fall in love with .... and they are looking for someone to date.......

The term genuine is abused too..... just because you are a client I never met, doesn’t mean I am not genuinely intimate with you and receive the same chemical affection you receive ..... don’t look at me as a whore just getting paid to fu@$ and it’s Just a bunch of meaningless sex...... putting on a front (pretending) for pay...... that’s an insult..... being a professional doesn’t mean being disconnected ..... I do what I do with love and I take on these types of positions because I love it! Do you prefer a career in something you love to do? Something you’re passionate about? How great is that? I love taking care of people making them feel good..... I wear many hats and they all lead back to this.... not every job is “just a job” to everyone

Sorry .... this is long .... lol and I didn’t proofread as I was just pouring from the heart

SuperManCuddles

@Destiny01 Your questions and explanations are awesome, real and from the heart. True there are people that want to use this site for many types of unsolicited motives. That’s a main reason why I discuss boundaries/limits before the actual cuddling begins, to make sure that our interests are compatible. I also pay close attention to all communications prior to meeting, for clues of additional motives (also I evaluate the correlation between what the other person says they want and contradictory statements that may appear before or after, while typing to each other). If they can get past my “process of elimination”, then a meet can happen. Only during cuddling, I pay attention to body language, verbal language and if the other cuddler is truly behaving platonically or trying to get more out of it.

Destiny01

@FishCuddles thanks for understanding.... and reading through that.... I just glanced over it 🤦🏾‍♀️

geoff1000

@Destiny01
I was kinda following your train of thought ; but polyamorous people are simultaneously in several romantic relationships, so exclusivity can't be a necessary criterion for an arrangement being non-platonic, and hence non-exclusivity can't indicate that an arrangement is platonic.

My feeling is that the only real difference between a paid cuddle session and an unpaid one, is the payment. Every other factor is so variable with both ( repetition, duration, interval, frequency ) ; that they are indistinguishable. A paid and unpaid session should be the same, during that session.

Destiny01

@geoff1000 it doesn’t downplay the professionals...... but I know what you mean.... my grandmother was great at being a nurse without any training or degree 🤷🏽‍♀️ Nurturing is natural for those who haven’t become disconnected.... I babysit starting at age 12 but it doesn’t downplay childcare professionals..... just think of those who get paid to clean rooms and homes.... we can do it ourselves for free, but it doesn’t take away from the professionals..... this is an extension to my career in caretaking and should never be downplayed as if being a professional should be frowned upon

geoff1000

@Destiny01
To convert the British saying to US currency, "An Engineer is someone who can make for a dime, what any fool can make for a dollar" ; in other words, professional training often just makes us sufficiently more efficient at doing the task, that we can actually make a living out of it. The customers probably don't care.

Think of the people who self-assemble kit cars, taking weeks to do what the Detroit workers do in minutes. Most of us could drive a race car round a track, but would be lapped several times by the professional drivers.

What about someone taking an hour to prepare a meal, while a restaurant chef can make dozens in ten minutes. If I go to someone's house for dinner, I expect the food to be edible ; but I don't mind if they are so inefficient, that even if I paid them a good price, they'd still be on minimum wage.

quixotic_life

So true! But I think there are also those who are both efficient and well-qualified due to a mix of life experience, on the job training, and an inherent intuitiveness related to their field.

I love my job, plus I'm really good at it, and it took far less time for me to figure out and excell at than it would have if I had gone to school ~ But I can't pay the bills on my own with it. It's really too bad I didn't go the "pro" (certified) route, because I'd be making at least twice as much doing the same kind of thing (and they'd reimburse some of my expenses too).

As it is, I'm going to have to figure out some sort of side hustle if I going to make ends meet (and will have to take out a student loan if I want to go get my certification too).

note: My "side hustle" will not be trying to offer cuddles for payment ~ I'm beyond under-qualified for that gig!
Lol!

PS ~ To answer the question @Destiny01 asked:
"Are folks looking for a moment of serenity... a stress reliever or a person to date?"

Yes, yes and yes! ~ I would love to find and bond with at least one person who I could regularly meet up with for stress relieving moments of serenity... So maybe not a traditional "dating" scenario, but if I'm snuggling with a buddy every Monday and/or Thursday (or something else reoccurring) ~ those would be "cuddle dates" right?

littermate

Totally looking for a regular cuddle buddy but covid.

geoff1000

People are like atoms.

There are three sorts of chemical bonding, based on the "valence" electrons :
Ionic ; one atom gives up electrons which the other needs, like Sodium Chloride, common salt.
Covalent ; small numbers of atoms share electrons, so each effectively has enough, like Oxygen gas.
Metallic ; large numbers of atoms clump together, and share a sea of electrons.

There are similarly three sorts of human bonding, as "hard" pairs, "soft" pairs, and "collectives".

Destiny01

@quixotic_life thanks for your input.... and yes that term “dating” is different to different people... my use of it was in a traditional sense..... your use of it, would be what I would expect here. Although, I understand that connections beyond could be made... I just don’t think that should be folks intent...... but I am a professional and so my views would be on that level.

Destiny01

@geoff1000 i totally get everything you’re saying.... but some folks with the most needs are getting neglected because they are different ... due to medically affecting their speech, physical movement, or mental health.... I see non pros looking for a certain connection before deciding.... these folks are most likely going to make a non pro uncomfortable..... but I went off topic a little so let me get back....... I see folks looking for an eharmony or backpage type of meetings..... and I guess that’s what happens in a mixing pot ...... this is definitely the first time I’ve experienced pros and non pros in the same place... we can all go to the gym to workout ... but an injury may need a physical therapist to workout the kinks before you can handle it on your own again..... some folks have connection issues and trust issues and meeting a non pro could cause a setback or a complete shutdown.... not saying it’s anything wrong with non pros... just that folks tend to frown upon pros.... who are trained and experienced to deal with a wide range of human needs

geoff1000

One of my taxi-driver colleagues complained to a customer that they they were drunk. The customer replied, "If I was sober, I wouldn't need you".

Mike403

@geoff1000 - If they barfed all over the cab, the driver would have a legitimate complaint. People need to learn to hold their liquor if they're going to drink.

Destiny01

😂😂😂😂 I got it.... y’all are too funny