For people in US, have you had anyone you know or yourself had pos test with symptoms? How to you feel about getting vacinationed yourself & how it will impact the cuddling concept?
I know people who have tested positive, who have died, who have recovered. I just had my first test (a spit test) and was negative. I'll likely wait for others to get vaccinated as I don't mind social distancing and would rather wait a bit to see how effective long-term the vaccines are. I'm waiting to cuddle until I feel confident my world is not rife with covid, which could be a while.
I know several people who have gotten the virus, including my sister. I've signed up to participate in one of the trials, so a week from today there's a 2/3 chance I'll get the vaccine as opposed to a placebo. My fingers are crossed for the vaccine. I want to protect my loved ones.
I'm never getting vaccinated again, ever. My choice.
I've had two testings now, both negative. Had to take them so I could be there in the ICU for my grandmother's recent surgeries.
My best friend's husband in New York passed away two months ago. He was a nurse and healthy. Covid.
Multiple of my friends have tested positive and have recovered. Some are still in quarantine.
My pen pal in England just got reinfected a second time with covid, this time wasn't as bad around.
I will definitely get it and I fall in the first group to get it. The companies that have come up with the new vaccines are confident in the numbers and so am I. They have investors and way too much to lose to not be certain. If you tout the numbers and people start dropping like flies, it would be economically catastrophic for them. No company is going to risk that with uncertainty.
I believe in vaccines but recognize the lack of long term study that will increase side effect risks possibly. I will likely vaccinate when it is available for me to do so.
I believe in safety measures until then.
I don't know anyone who got it, but I also don't know a whole lot of people. As for the vaccine, I don't trust it because of how rushed it was.
Several of the reasons not to get the vaccines have been debunked:
https://www.bustle.com/wellness/covid-19-vaccine-myths-debunked-doctors
I have a friend who I haven’t seen in a while recently test positive for Covid. I cried honestly cause he’s a good man. His wife got sick as well, he was in a position where it exposed him to the virus. I’m hoping for a speedy recovery for him and his wife. This virus really sucks.
@FunCartel Thank you for that link. 🙂
I know a runner that had Covid during the summer. She's getting over it now. I don't plan on getting vaccinated, but my employer may insist on it. My concern is the speed they're getting the vaccine out. Maybe it's safe from the start, maybe not. Maybe I'll reconsider in a couple of years.
I'm so sorry for those of you who've seen tragedy. And thanks to those who have told thier story about others who've contracted it.
I got a text from a friend I'd been with, another driver at a outdoor distanced racing event whose wife was quite I'll with it. She was pos, he was neg, but was warned his test might have been too early. Indeed he turned pos, but symptoms much less. Even though risk low, I got tested & neg. Both of them in age group now getting it more than any other in upstate NY: 20-40. My friend told me to do anything I could do to avoid getting this, it's been absolutely horrible for his wife.
This vaccine development followed a similar timetable as the yearly flu vaccines. Clinical studies just as intensive. But the review process is being shortened by dedicated MD specialists & scientists who're spending extremely long days reviewing data.
Some people get some symptoms with any vaccine, others don't. Your immune system is responding as it should to produce specific antibodies & memory cells that remember & are called upon to produce antibodies if exposed again.
An unfortunate thing about this virus is that now people of any age can get a very bad case & be very sick at home, hospitalized, or worse. Masks have now been shown to not only protect those around you, but protect you too.
Keep commenting please, it's important for this unique community to keep each other informed of their experiences.
I don't have a problem with vaccines in general. I think there's enough science behind them to show that the idea is sound. I'm wary of vaccinations because I had a bad experience with a flu shot. Every year, the school gives flu shots late Oct / early Nov. First one I had, the next day I had a classic case of flu - hot flashes, cold chills, all joints aching. I missed a week of school. Over Christmas, I got flu again. And again at Easter, so I missed the last week or so of school. Temp went up to 105F that time. Since then, no flu shots and no flu, either. "But you don't get flu from the shot," people say. Well, that year would have been a good year to buy lottery tickets, then, because I got hit by 1, 2, or possibly 3 different strains of flu that were not covered by that shot...
Would the same happen with a COVID shot? I don't know. Am I going to risk it? No. We're likely to continue working from home for the foreseeable future, so I'm mostly isolated, pretty much just going out for groceries.
What if vaccination is mandated by the State Governor? Well, I see mandates like that as "fervent wishes", as in "the Governor really wishes people would get vaccinated". If the Gov's least little wish has the force of Law, then what's the point of having a State legislature? Fire them all and save a bunch of money. And change the Gov's title to Dictator, or Tyrant.
@dontremember It is also perfectly legal for an employer to mandate someone to get a vaccine with the exemptions being religion or health issues which will be listed by the CDC. If one wants to fight it if you do have an employer that requires it, then you better be able to hire an attorney.
As far as the flu shots go, it doesn’t cover all strains—only those they believe will account for the greatest number of cases. With that said, I always get a flu shot and I have gotten the flu, but the severity is mitigated because of the vaccine, and if you go to a clinic as soon as you get it, they will give you Tamiflu and you will be right as rain in 24 hours.
I'm torn on this question. I mean it's somewhat academic at the moment, since it will many months at least and maybe even a year before a vaccination is available to the general population.
On the one hand, I'm desperate to be at the front of my section of the vaccine queue so that I can cuddle with a clear conscience.
On the other hand, I'm not old or vulnerable in any way (my view would be different if I was) and I'm desperate to catch coronavirus. I'm buggered if I'm going to have life disrupted this much and not actually experience the wretched thing.
I did try to sign up to one study that was going to infect people deliberately (in order to test the vaccine more quickly), but they were only taking people in their twenties ... it never happened in the end.
(Don't worry, I'm fairly strict about covid precautions. Not keen to infect somebody else inadvertently.)
@FunCartel mandates only work if there's an "...or else". If my employer says: "get vaccinated or else you're fired", then OK, there's a clear penalty. There's also happens to be a way forward that doesn't require vaccination, and that's to continue working from home as I have been for the last 6 months. Just last week I worked on systems in Pearl Harbor, San Diego, Key West, Gitmo and Bahrain within minutes of each other. I'm actually not allowed to travel to remote sites anyway.
What's the Governor's "...or else"?? Get vaccinated, or else.... What? A nurse comes to my house with a police escort to hold me down while she sticks me? That might work for the first few people they try it on, but sooner or later, they'll run into: 1) someone who gets sick and dies; or 2) someone who shoots at the vaccination truck. If the vaccine does kill someone, the government will just shrug its shoulders and say "oh well..." and Big Pharma already has immunity from prosecution for bad medication, so they won't care.
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter if the vaccine kills someone (although obviously it matters for those concerned). No vaccine kills a lot more.
Legally compulsory vaccination is an extremely distateful option for everybody. I believe the WHO is not in favour, and its implementation raises a host of practical and moral difficulties. It is very unlikely to occur in democratic countries.
Existing employers would generally have to show some kind of cause as to why it was necessary. If you can work from home all the time, that may give you an out. In the medium term, the semi-legal compulsion may come from new employers. Vaccination is likely to be a condition of employment (possibly even of interview) and so if you want to avoid vaccination, you won't be able to get a new job.
@dontremember Sure there has to be consequences, but I was watching a lawyer round table on this and it was crystal clear that they can fire you without cause if you fail to comply. If you live in an at will state, for example, Michigan, this is a mute point because they do not need a reason. The lawyers said they have advised most of their non-healthcare clients to do a soft enforcement where the employer strongly urges their employees to get the vaccine, and to find other means to get rid of the ones who do not comply. This is actually more insidious than an actual requirement. But make no mistake about it, the large companies want workers back as soon as possible because all metrics are pointing to decreased production from at-home remote working. I have a college buddy in Austin that heads up a specialized team for IBM and he travels all over the world for just one piece of equipment and he was recently told he had to start coming into the office when he is in town and not traveling starting in 2021 after his team is vaccinated. The irony is his piece of equipment he is in charge of makes it easier for people to work from home. Strange times we are in.
I know a few people who have tested positive, and who had significant symptoms (but not hospitalized). Nobody I have physically been near has gotten it, thankfully.
I am willing to get vaccinated, but I am not in a rush to do so. The vaccine will be new, and long term side effects will not be known until time passes. Meanwhile I can live with physical distancing and masks. I do most things by myself anyway.
I am reasonably comfortable interacting with friends who live in isolation from the public (work from home) and who maintain good health and safety habits when they go out for essentials.
It sucks.Europe was extremely careful with lockdowns and mask wearing.It came roaring back.The virus exploded again as everyone started staying indoors as the weather changed.Innocent people give it to each other in their living quarters.The social ramifications of living in isolation are devastating and will negatively impact many for decades to come.Will I take the vaccine?Of course.99.9% of those infected with covid under the age of 50 will survive without a vaccine but why take a chance?The vaccine will give many the freedom they desperately need.
How many people aren’t going to take the vaccine when they become available?
@CoCoCourtney The polls are showing about 40% who say they won’t. To me that means of that 40% half will get it when friends, family members and fellow coworkers get it, another 20% will in a few months when they see that no one is turning into the Sta-Puff marshmallow man, and then there is the staunch 15% of that 40% who are medically unable, contrarians, or fearful that chips will be planted in their brains for the NSA to listen in on their highly coveted thoughts who will never get the vaccine. The country does not need that last group to achieve success with the vaccine.
So the real heroes will be the healthcare workers, nursing home patients, elderly and high risk people who receive the vaccination early on. They will be the leaders to the sheeple who are fearful, and these heroes will be on the right side of history.
Having worked for a clinical research company, I've witnessed first hand how testing can easily go south within the standard clinical trial time-frame of 3 to 20 years. At the end of the day I don't trust big Pharma's word on the success of their "rapid response" regarding Covid. I've witnessed the money grab with cancer, aids, statins and other drugs that were FDA approved but proved to be harmful if not deadly to humans once they were out of trials and in the public domain.
Vaccines essentially induce our bodies to produce antibodies to a certain condition. I'm one of those folks that if I get a flu shot my body produces antibodies at a rate that mimics the condition, so it's like I get the damn flu. The years I've skipped the vaccine, no flu for me. Therefore, I won't be getting a Covid vaccine. At least not right away. God speed to those who make that choice.
@FunCartel I think you are spot on.
Take up rates will likely be higher in Western Europe, but the broad shape will be much the same.
I'm all for being safe, but I wonder how safe the covid vaccine might be if it hasn't gone through enough testing. Also, years ago I got a flu shot and got one of the worst flus I'd ever had. My employer paid for that flu shot, and I ended up staying home sick, not being able to go into work, due to getting sick right after getting that flu shot.
Becoming unwell after a vaccination is very common, and intensely reassuring.
I am unable to comprehend why some people seem to think it's a bad thing, since it is immediate and very personal evidence that the vaccine is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. It's like complaining that when you put on thick jersey, you soon start to feel warmer.
I've lost count of how many vaccines are now in late stage development, it's at least seven. Any unsafe ones will simply fall by the wayside. They have each already been tested on tens of thousands of people. They will be tested on tens of thousands more before general release.
After that, the first few batches of patients will be an excellent mixture of very vulnerable people and healthy people. In addition, testing and development programmes will continue in parallel. Again, anything that isn't safe will be easily be spotted and abandoned.
For example, the Oxford vaccine was tested on 1,087 people in Phase I and the results were published back in July. Phase II/III testing, which I believe is the phase that has just completed, involved 12,330 people. Off the top of my head I think the AstraZeneca trial involved over 40,000 people. Only one became seriously ill, at which point the trial was temporarily stopped. It quickly became apparent that the illness was unrelated to the vaccine. It is obvious that in a large trial some people will become ill or die simply by coincidence.
You have to remember that we were not starting from scratch. Many vaccination programmes have been developed for very similar vaccines. The covid vaccine was perhaps 80% complete before we started creating it.
It is also the case that some people seem unable to comprehend the difference in speed between normal human activities and highly prioritised ones. For example, on Thursday 1st April 1982 HMS Hermes, an aircraft carrier of the Royal Navy, was two weeks into a six week repair and maintenance programme with most of her major systems dismantled or at least opened up. Following the maintenance period, there would normally have been several weeks alongside for testing, storing, etc. Four days later, on Monday 5th, she sailed for the Falkland Islands, ready in all respects for war. In other words, about eight weeks work was done in four days, a ratio of about 14:1. All we're talking about with the vaccine is doing maybe three years of normal speed work in one year of high speed. It's not actually that much of a leap.
By the time the vaccination programme reaches the general population, taking it will be considerably safer than making the journey to the clinic.
CuddleDuncan, above: Well informed, excellent job covering a lot of very good points & backing up with facts. Addresses many of the concerns expressed about vaccines in general & covid vaccine in particular.
This is a great discussion everybody & so relevant to a concept we all endorse, but have had to suspend. So much has been learned about this virus, recent progress not only in vaccine development but in understanding the measures we all can take to help bring it under control. It should offer all our community some hope for the future. Good input everyone, let's keep it up!
@CuddleDuncan while I appreciate your optimism and can-do attitude, shipbuilding or any manufacturing for that matter is a far different process from prescription drug development.
I'm a big fan of the "Mythical Man-Month" concept -- something I was introduced to and adopted while working in IT management for big Pharma. Drug trails are designed to take a certain amount of time for a reason; the analogy I often use with non-IT folk is: it takes 9 months for a baby to fully develop, so adding 8 additional women to the gestation process won't make a healthy baby magically appear in a single month. Same with drug development - significant testing is required and over a prescribed period of time.
History shows us that big Pharma routinely releases prescription drug products that they deem "safe" according to their "studies" and certified by the FDA, only to be recalled because people are being seriously harmed or die after using them.
Lastly, while I'm generally a positive person -- my experience informs me that attempting to expedite drug development for a highly-lethal disease is a perilous pursuit.
@herby357 that's all true, obviously. When you look at indicators like lawsuits, pharmaceuticals is one of the most crooked industries there is.
I am aware of the some-things-just-take-a-certain-time problem in medicine development, but my last post was long enough already. We are greatly helped by the relatively fast infection cycle for covid. And we've been inordinately lucky - it clearly just happens to be something that it's easy to develop a vaccine for.
I am also .... reassured by the fact that we are talking about a once-only vaccine (albeit two doses) and not a long-term drug. Also that young children are not the main audience. The potential for harm is much less than it would be in other circumstances.
We do have the unknowable long term consequences. Again, there are no known negatives and lots to be positive about - vaccines are better than drugs, we already have vaccines for similar viruses and they are fine - but it's impossible to know what's going to happen with any medicine until twenty years later. If you've vaccinated the whole world you don't need much of a problem rate to have a big problem. Which is another reason why it's great that we have several vaccines.
History shows the same thing for planes, trains and automobiles so there is a similarity. The fact is anything made by man is fallible and desperate times call for desperate measures. We have rocketed well past 250,000 deaths with no end in sight. Big Pharma is crooked yes, but it has also produced wonderful results as well. If we sit for a year or two more and take the natural course of vaccine development you will see suicides skyrocket, divorce reach unheard of levels and a worldwide economic collapse. Kind of like the way things were in the years preceding WW2. In my opinion, you are choosing between big pharma, a world ruled by megalomaniacs due to pestilence and poverty, or the end of the world completely. Choose your poison.