Question of the day
What’s a greater blow to one’s self esteem —going an extended period of time without cuddling another person, or paying for cuddling?
@grandrapidiano I'm afraid I not only don't accept your premise, I find it offensive. And that's even before we get to the numerous exceptions.
And apart from that, why on earth is paying for cuddling a blow to your self esteem? You pay for food, is that a blow to your self esteem? Why do you think there is a difference?
But I do have to offer my thanks for your use of 'greater': a rare treat in the modern world!
I don't think it's a crazy notion that paying for cuddling is bad for one's self esteem. I don't think @CuddleDuncan 's comparison to paying for food really makes sense.
Let's do two different though experiments.
Thought Experiment 1. You and I are friends. One day you call me up and say, "Hey, CuddleMeLater, I could really use some food. Would you mind picking up dinner and bringing it over?" I say, "No problem, just reimburse me a few bucks when I get there."
Thought Experiment 2. You and I are friends. One day you call me up and say, "Hey, CuddleMeLater, I could really use a hug. Would you mind coming over and giving me a hug?" I say, "No problem, just reimburse me a few bucks when I get there."
Now at least from my perspective, the situation in Thought Experiment 2 is much more bothersome than the one in Thought Experiment 1. Food, goods, other services, those we may sometimes pay for and sometimes give or get freely. But physical touch is something we give and get freely with those we care about. To be honest someone paying for touch very likely is someone who doesn't have as many people who care about him as he would like.
This is why there are occasionally men on the forum who are angry at pro cuddlers and feel like they are exploiting lonely men. Charging money for platonic touch really is making money off of an act that was previously considered to be something done freely out of mutual affection and kindness.
Now, all that said, let me wave my hand and say... you don't actually have to overthink it. If you'd like to cuddle someone and have some extra cash, then see a pro. Yes, it's better than being alone. Usually.
@CuddleMeLater I agree with you that food is probably not the best comparison.
I liked your thought experiment, but there is an explanation for the difference. Buying the food cost the friend money in the first place, hence reimbursement is appropriate. But cuddles can be created without monetary expense, so it's not technically a reimbursement.
It's also the case that in paying for touch you are not paying friends: you are paying strangers who would not otherwise touch you.
It is obviously true that paying for touch is prima facie evidence that your personal life is not all it might me. But it is not the case that that is something of which you should be embarrassed or ashamed.
I tend to see paying for cuddles like paying for a massage - sure, I could ask my friends for a massage, but for most people in our culture it's a bit awkward and people might take it the wrong way (i.e. they might assume romantic interest and it could make things complicated). Also if I pay for a pro cuddler I'm paying for someone else to be the giver - i.e. I'm paying them to listen to me, to make my needs a priority, and to focus on giving to me. So it's a situation where I get to sit back, relax and just receive, rather than a situation where I have to focus on giving and receiving equally (both emotionally and physically).
Also, asking a random stranger off the internet for a free massage is bound to be risky, so I'd feel safer and more comfortable hiring someone professional - even if the skill level is roughly the same.
I should also add, before I decided to go pro I used the services of a local professional cuddler, as I felt it was really important to experience it from the client's point of view. I can see how it could be a blow to someone's self-esteem, but I think it's important that we shift from this mindset and view it as another form of self-care.
The therapeutic element is also quite different with a professional as it creates a safe space for people to process their emotions and explore safe forms of touch, without the added complexity of navigating someone else's feelings. It's much more awkward with another enthusiast because people often end up wondering, "Are they romantically interested?" or "Do they want to have sex?" In a professional setting that's completely off the table and the boundaries are much more clear.
@TouchSanctuary Thanks for your thoughts on my comment.
However, I find your comments somewhat distant from my experience. (Not just yours; I often find this to be the case with comments by pros on the forum. As I've said before, I think the pros who comment frequently on the forum are pretty different from the average pro on the site.)
Yes, theoretically reasons to seek a pro might be that it's awkward to ask a friend, that a pro would be a giver, or that asking a random stranger might be risky. However, in practice, as far as I can tell, the large majority of men seeking pros are doing so for the simple reason that they don't have as many people in their lives available to touch them as they would like.
And yes, in theory, a pro is safer, romance and sex are off the table, and you don't have to worry about navigating the pro's feelings. In practice... things are different.
I have a lot of friends who are pros who I respect and adore . However I dont agree with the notion that you should place a pro on a pedestal just for being a pro. All it means is that you charge a fee to cuddle. It doesn't mean you are somehow better , different , or more evolved than someone who doesnt charge a fee to cuddle. There are some who are , however I dont attribute that to being a pro , I attribute it to the individual and what they bring to the cuddle.
@CuddleMeLater - can you expand on this? I'm curious if you've ever had situations were pros seem to be pushing for a more romantic or sexual dynamic.
It doesn't mean you are somehow better , different , or more evolved than someone who doesnt charge a fee to cuddle
I don't think I'm superior to enthusiasts in general, but I do think professional cuddling is different in some ways - if I was an enthusiast, it would be really awkward to ask people to sign a paper form agreeing that it will all be 100% platonic. Even giving someone a COVID-19 screening form to fill out and sign would seem super weird if it wasn't a paid arrangement. There's a certain amount of formality around pro cuddling that just wouldn't be appropriate as an enthusiast.
Also my experience as a client was that seeing a pro cuddler in my area was much better than any enthusiast I've ever cuddled with. It was easy and comfortable right away, despite never having met her before. I've never found it works that way with enthusiasts... most are super nervous and getting comfortable doesn't happen automatically. That said, she is a very high quality, passionate pro with over two years of experience and over 1000 hours of pro cuddling under her belt.
@TouchSanctuary you are speaking for yourself and your practice. I appreciate that and am sure you take things seriously and are professional about your practice. That is not the case for many many many of those who join as a pro cuddler. And this is not an attack on pros I am close with many of you both online and off. However having an ability to charge for something doesnt make the outcome better for the other person.
@TouchSanctuary
I’m curious if you've ever had situations were pros seem to be pushing for a more romantic or sexual dynamic.
Yes, I certainly have. Unfortunately I’m not going to discuss any more details on the site. Both to respect privacy and because, although I believe I consistently follow the site’s rules, I think any discussion of these topics risks being misinterpreted by moderators as a rule violation.
Me too. Well, not pushing, but clearly crossing boundaries.
In my [extremely limited] experience of discussing Cuddle Comfort outside the site with people who know something of it, indecency by professionals is the number one thing people associate with this website. To be fair, I think they were probably trying to protect/warn me as a client.
The saddest thing about it is that there are truly amazing, wonderful professionals on here. People for whom I have THE highest respect and admiration.
@pmvines thanks for clarifying. I do agree that just charging money doesn't automatically mean the experience will be better or higher quality for the client. It does depend greatly on how good the professional is. Perhaps good pros are rarer than I thought - I may have got a different impression since the first pro I saw as a client was amazing, and really blew me away. But I'm sure not all are that good. I mean, I've had my fair share of terrible massage therapists as well, so I can only imagine that pro cuddling would probably be even more of a mixed bag since there is less regulation around it.
I'm sorry to hear that you have both dealt with pros who have crossed and/or pushed boundaries, @CuddleMeLater and @CuddleDuncan - it's good to be aware this is an issue.