Change my opinion

MrPaulMrPaul
edited January 2021 in General

As far as I know, over 2 million people have died of Covid-19 to date *, which represents 2.1% of total cases. Let’s assume the death reports are flawed and only half of those cases are from COVID-19. That’s still 1 million dead from this virus worldwide, or 1% death rate.

Now, let’s assume the reports of death by vaccine are being hidden by government and big pharma, and instead of one or two deaths, or a few dozen, it’s 10,000. Now, 38 million doses ** of the vaccine have already been administered worldwide, so that would be a death rate of 0.026% with my wacky assumption.

Now, using my grossly distorted assumptions you would still have a 38x likelihood of dying from the coronavirus than the vaccine.

For those choosing to skip vaccinations, can anyone show me the logic that you’re using to convince yourself that you’re safer without the vaccine?

This is not a joke. I’m not mocking or shaming anyone who doesn’t want to take the vaccine. I’m assuming you care about your health. I just want to understand how you have arrived at your decision so that I can make my decision based on all the information.

References:
*Case data:
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/

**Vaccine data:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Comments

  • ImportanceImportance

    Uhh. But I want the vaccine and my own brand of cuddles. Good luck on your journey here @MrPaul

  • [Deleted User]lets_cuddlee (deleted user)
    edited January 2021

    Look at the demographis. Assuming all your "wacky assumptions" are correct, account for age and health. A 75 year old with diabetes could be in grave danger of dying of covid, while a healthy 25 year old has virtually no risk of dying from it.

    That said, I think people's concern with the vaccine is that it's so rushed. We've never developed one this quickly, as far as I know, so people are a bit skeptical. It's not like a medicine has never harmed anyone. So, it may not necessarily be what you would consider logic, but it is a rationl decision based on evidence. There are financial incentives. A number of CEOs in medicine have become billionaires this past year, and a billion dollars clouds one's judgement. And typically, vaccine producers and distributors aren't even liable for damages, so they don't even have a real incentive to make the vaccine safe.

    If I'm young, healthy, and have basically no serious risk from covid, why should I risk being a guinea pig for a rushed, untested vaccine for which we can't possibly know the long term side-effects? If I'm 75, I take my chances with the vaccine. At 29, I'll happily let the willing (and vulnerable) test it out first.

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @lets_cuddlee
    The rushed vaccine concern has been explained by the fact that, unlike prior vaccines, this one had the benefit of immediate funding and volunteers.
    I’ll agree the long term side effects are unknown.

    Your other points are valid.

    Are all your friends and family young and low risk too? One of my concerns is risking the lives of older people, so I take that into account for my decision making process.

  • [Deleted User]lets_cuddlee (deleted user)
    edited January 2021

    @MrPaul
    Part of the issue of it being rushed is that the long-term side effects are unknown. That's usually part of the process, and it was skipped this time. So there may be immediate funding and volunteers, but we can't speed up time, so the explanation, which is valid, doesn't do much to assuage the fears, which are also valid.

    Most of my friends and family are low-risk, yes. If I lived with or interacted regularly with someone who was more vulnerable, I certainly would put more consideration into taking it quickly, for their safety. And I obviously completely understand why anyone would. So far, the vaccine hasn't been shown to be killing people, so it doesn't seem to be a major risk. I guess I also feel weird about taking medicine that I don't actually need. I wouldn't take a malaria shot, either, unless I needed one.

    I always thought we would have been better off letting the virus spread through the young and healthy in the beginning, and focused on quarantining and supporting the elderly and vulnerable, instead of everyone. I know this isn't exactly what you're asking, but hundreds of thousands of kids have startved to death or will be forever stunted because of bad policy decisions.

  • mtpmtp

    The long term effects of covid are similarly unknown, even in people who appear asymptomatic at first. I'd even argue there's a greater risk of unexpected long term effects from something that arose naturally (the virus) than something deliberately designed (any of the vaccines).

  • [Deleted User]lets_cuddlee (deleted user)
    edited January 2021

    I would argue the opposite, but I think we'd both be stating opinions, lol. You are right that the long term effects of the virus are similarly unknown, but for the vast majority of those infected, it seem to just run a normal course, if it even presents any symptoms at all. I understand both sides of the argument, for sure

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    This vaccine was not rushed. It has been in development for a decade because there have been other Coronaviruses. Moreover, the medical technology at the research level we have at our disposal is light years ahead of what we had just 20 years ago. JAMA and other respected peer reviewed journals have been providing this information all year now. Now compound the new variants that are striking down people at a more rapid rate and now making children and young adults very sick and the vaccine now can’t come fast enough. So to say one is not in a high risk group is misinformed—the South African variant does attack the young.

  • [Deleted User]lets_cuddlee (deleted user)

    @FunCartel
    I believe you are misinformed. A number of pharmaceutical companies began development of a vaccine in March. And they aren't all working on the same vaccine. Different companies are taking different approaches.

    Even if you are correct, and they were working on vaccines previously, they still rushed at least the final stages of testing. But the fact is that they rushed all stages, and the approval process.

    But the point is moot, because development of the vaccine was unquestionably rushed. This point isn't really debatable.

    And the south African variant, to my understanding, is only slightly more contagious, and no more deadly. I'm not sure where you're getting your information but it's counter to everything I can find. And it was only discovered like 10 days ago so I'm not sure how you can feel so confident making such predictions about what it will do, but perhaps you know something the rest of us do not?

    https://www.biospace.com/article/a-timeline-of-covid-19-vaccine-development/

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-variant-spreading-south-africa/story?id=75062211

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