Valky you mentioned all the reasons why I’m in it & love crypto soo much … this is absolutely history in the making , we are still early, El Salvador just made history by legally recognizing Bitcoin as legal tender, and countries all over the world are working towards creating their digital currency …. Imagine 3 / 5 / 10 years from today : )
Amazing news for the crypto world / crypto enthusiats / & those who want a higher return on a savings account (in this case much more money 💵 4% - check out this link https://blog.coinbase.com/sign-up-to-earn-4-apy-on-usd-coin-with-coinbase-cdad79e5f5eb (although USDC isn’t FDIC insured, Coinbase guarantees all your USDC for peace of mind) @valkyrievixen @Mark
Here! Just getting into the crypto game.
Hey @LAU24 … which coins did you started, or plan on starting with, & which platform if I may
@cuddles_ndream Dogecoin and I use Blockfi!
@LAU24 becareful with Blockfi because their fiat money (meaning currency that you deposit into it) is not FDIC insured nor has any insurance nor do they guarantee any loss … Besides Doge are you into any other crypto? I myself got into the crypto game because of the doge craze but than found that I really loved this whole world and started learning as much as I can & because if that I never invested a penny into doge, although I regret missing out on the potential profits I could’ve made regardless of the fact lol
@cuddles_ndream Thank you so much for the insight! What platform do you recommend? I haven't even got time to look at other cryptos yet. Feel like I should read more about it before I started pouring money into it.
@LAU24 ofcouse np! When it comes to crypto you’re going to realize right away that multiple platforms are necessary… #1) reason is because your favorite coin or the one you’re looking to get may not be in the platform you’re currently using … or #2) the platform that it is available on may not be available in the state (or country) where you reside … One of the most important things to know in this space however is how do you store your coins … most would not leave their coins in any exchange / some others trust certain ones , & overall thought is to have it either in hot / cold / web wallet ect
@cuddles_ndream Thank you. This is great information. I really got a lot more to learn!!
@LAU24 Np, feel free & reach out if you have any questions … there are a couple other crypto enthusiasts here as well which includes the site owner … & remember yo always do research & look for both pros & cons for any coins & tokenomics / the founders & whose behind them / their roadmap ect
Will do and will keep following the thread
Uh. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't mining crypto mean solving a whole lot of really complex (but useless) math problems?
Basically pouring a ton of energy into getting solutions that don't hold any valuable data or information of any kind, except that it proves that someone somewhere had to have done a lot of work to find a value that produced the desired output... right?
The more I look into it, the less I like what I find.
I mean, my fridge might use a lot of electricity, but at least it's keeping my food cold! What crypto does doesn't seem nearly that useful.
And maybe it'll pollute less in future, but at the moment—!
It just seems like a bad thing to get into.
@DarrenWalker you raise a lot of good questions & concerns , and at the same time there’s alot of misinformation & misconceptions about crypto … yes with Bitcoin you have to mine … this was done by design & for various reasons … today there’s alot of amazing crypto out there that have been pre-mined and / or considered green like Ripple / Cardano / Stellar / Xinfin / Algorand ect …. Here’s a chart of one of my favorite cryptos -
In reality blockchain makes everything better & more honest … it is here to stay , the only thing unclear is legislation & how it will affect the space …
@cuddles_ndream: But the whole thing is still burning power to solve useless equations, yeah? Like... what's the point?
"Ooh, I've poured a whole ton of energy into producing nothing! Reward me!" strikes me as silly, but so does "Ooh, I've poured less energy into producing nothing, reward me!"
@DarrenWalker I wouldn’t say its useless equations … but as far as Bitcoin & being the mothership that “started it all” it came with its challenges & negatives … thankfully there’s a total supply of 21 million coins 🪙 & 18.5 million have been mined, so that means there’s less than 3 million more to go …
I’m glad that Elon Musk brought the energy consumption problem dilemma on a mainstream level (even though I believe he did so because he started accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment for Tesla’s & a magazine called him our for producing a vehicle that’s environmentally friendly but than accepting a form of payment that requires sooo much energy consumption which in turn causes sooo much emission) that & other reasons too … but now its a mainstream concern which will greatly improve blockchain / crypto moving forward (but many were considered green before this so great part on them)
Let’s think of Bitcoin as being the 1st Ford mass produced - required gas & oil to operate & for transmission - now we have Tesla & countless of other Ev’s to choose from which require no gas or oil for oil change since there’s no transmission… & you could charge it with real 100% renewable energy such as solar … Bitcoin paved the way for the cryptos after …
@cuddles_ndream: You wouldn't say they're useless equations... okay. Then what use does solving these equations have?
Does it tell you how to fold a protein? How to open a stable wormhole? How to solve NP problems in polynomial time? How to predict complex movement? Anything at all?
There are a ton of problems out there that it'd be really cool to have solved, and we're pouring our time and energy into hash? It just seems like a waste.
@DarrenWalker i just realized that you’re against crypto & no matter what I present you will find a reason not to like it still 😅 & tbh that’s completely fine - but I guarantee that 10 years from now you’ll participate in it , regardless if directly or indirectly (even government’s across the globe are trying to create their own cbdc’s) sort of like when someone says they will never support Facebook … but than they have Instagram / and or WhatsApp / & I’m like dude really?? Lol or someone that says they love such & such craft beer (for example blue moon) & than I have to drop the bad news that Budweiser owns them lol) but with blockchain & cbdc’s we won’t have a choice - unless we completely get of “the grid” & farm our own crops ….
@cuddles_ndream: Nah, man—I'm only against it if its cost outweighs its benefit.
Now, I can see the cost plain enough (time, energy, pollution), so what I'm asking is "Where's the benefit?" I've been kind of hoping someone would list some stuff that makes the cost worthwhile, but all I'm hearing is "the cost will eventually drop!"
Which means nothing if there's still no benefit, yeah?
I mean, you're talking like there's a benefit, but—what is it? What good does crypto do, and why's it so good that it outweighs the time and energy put into it (instead of into other things which have more immediately apparent use), the pollution it creates, the graphics cards it steals from gamers, etc.?
It's not that I'm against crypto no matter what, it's that nobody seems to have an explanation of what's so good about it that the cost is worthwhile.
@DarrenWalker There are many benefits - for me personally what I love is that I have genuine control of my money / it eliminates a bunch of unnecessary middleman’s who all want their cut / I could send & receive money in seconds for the cost of a fraction of a penny … while I love crypto I do have a dislike which is if fiat completely goes to blockchain , there will forever be a record of everything & anything you purchase or buy (products & services) gov’ts would really be all in your business, & having this control could lead to things like , for example stimulus checks (you have such & such amount & you must spend it by such & such date & you could only spend it on such & such things) if it eventually goes to that direction I’m not much of a fan of this control , so that’s something I recognize I don’t like or wouldn’t like ….
@DarrenWalker but with that being said, it’ll make corruption sooooo much harder …. I’m sure there are many in gov’ts & upper level who don’t like this level of checks & balances because they won’t be able to so easily do dirt lol
@cuddles_ndream: Hmm. All right.
So I don't have genuine control of my money (since I don't have crypto). How is genuine control better than what I have? I have enough control over my money to earn it, save it, spend it—even invest it if I like. What additional benefits does this genuine control add?
Which "unnecessary middlemen" does crypto cut out? Between me, my employer, my bank, my electric company, etc., there don't seem to be a whole lot of middlemen at all (never mind unnecessary ones). Clarification, please!
Apparently I can't send and receive money in seconds for the cost of a fraction of a penny (since I don't have crypto). I admit I never noticed—transferring money that fast has never been something I've ever needed to do. If it ever were, I suppose I'd withdraw the amount from an ATM (I pay no fees), then hand it to the other person. Being able to do it online might be useful if, for some reason, you needed to transfer money very fast at a distance. Good in an emergency, when you're unprepared.
I also have to acknowledge that I don't understand how electronic currency would be more difficult for governments to take advantage of. What checks and balances are these?
So far these strike me as rather minor benefits (possibly because I don't understand all of them yet). Building a comprehensive theory of the physics of self-assembly still seems like a more beneficial use of time and energy, more likely to justify (and even eventually reduce) the pollution.
Reduction of corruption in government would be terrific, though.
Do the checks and balances of cryptocurrency prevent government officials from, say, buying power plants and farms, or whatever else to corner the market? Ooh, do they prevent the rich from skipping out on their taxes? Make it more difficult for presidents to, say, turn their bodyguards into sources of personal profit?
If crypto does that, it's more than worth the price. Think of the reduction in human suffering!
@DarrenWalker crypto came about after the 2007/2008 crash …. Take for example what happen in recent years in Venezuela with their Fiat …
I love a comment mark made earlier in this thread, “ I have a debit card whereby the funds are not held by the bank but entirely by me. Within that account I have USDC, a crypto backed by the US dollar one-to-one with regulatory oversight. While it sits there, it receives interest way above traditional bank offerings from being lent out in decentralised markets (e.g. Aave) and used within liquidity pools of decentralised exchanges (e.g. Uniswap). All while remaining entirely in my custody through smart contract assurances.
While not particularly relevant to my circumstances, hypothetically this setup would allow me to carry my net worth around the world in a stable form without worry of border restrictions or banking issues. I can imagine that being valuable for residents in less privileged parts of the world.
I also hold native crypto, like Ether. If I want to buy a car, I can use that crypto as collateral to get a near zero interest loan using a decentralised protocol (e.g. MakerDao, Liquity). This type of loan is analogous to getting equity from your home. In a recent development, you can even get a loan that gradually repays itself off from the interest generated by the lender using your collateral.
There's a lot of utility in crypto when you get past the introductory boring Bitcoin story.” - mark
To answer your question about sending money fast , every month I send money to my grandma (first thing I do on the 1st of every month before I pay any bills or spend on me) … it sucks that every option available charges these ridiculous fees (from the sending agent / to receiving agent / & they also give you a currency payout less than what it should be , thereby taking more money in a very sneaky way … one of my 2 favorite Alt coins are $Xlm & $Tel … remittances payments is huge … China / Egypt / Mexico / Caribbean / Philippines the list goes on … with these new crypto technology we will be able to count out these sending & receiving agents (middlemen costs) which are so inefficient- slow - takes several days, & money gets transferred virtually instantly & very very very affordable… ( by the way difference between Xlm & Tel is that one is bank based, the other skips that & goes straight to the mobile market (7 Billion people on Earth / 5 billion are unbanked while having smartphones/ & 2 billion are banked) it is my opinion that they both have amazing peer to peer strategies & both will co-exist.
As far as the check & balances - with crypto there will always be a record on the blockchain … the destination for every fraction of a coin … this is easier to manipulate with fiat / & it is soooooooooo much harder to do so with crypto.
@DarrenWalker but I will be 100% honest … I am more passionate from an investor and opportunity standpoint than I am from a technology perspective … I feel like I got late in the game but early enough ,, I was told about Eth & told to get it when it was only $18 dollars around 5 years ago or so / didn’t / & this year it hit an ATH of over $4,000 … every single project im in now is because I genuinely believe in them, & feel (or in my mind know lol) that I will realize a great ROI ….) im not blinded or bias to know or realize that there are risks & uncertainty like any other investment out there … but a chance at peace of mind financially is very worth it to me.
@cuddles_ndream: Sending money fast was actually the one thing I didn't have a question about.
This whole conversation seems a bit off to me. I'm not sure whether you're misreading my questions, or I'm misreading your answers, or both, but to me our last exchange looks a bit like this:
Q. How does "genuine" control of one's money differ from what I've got?
A. A certain cryptocurrency gets better interest than standard USD in some banks and can be used worldwide, while another cryptocurrency is safer to go into debt with if you do it right.
Me, baffled: The heck.
One, better interest ≠ better control.
Two, I wouldn't care to try getting a room for the night in Siglufjörður with nothing but my net worth in crypto, and I don't consider this better control over my money.
Three, I don't care to go into debt no matter how sure I am I'll be able to pay it off, and I definitely don't see this as having better control over my money.
And four, what the good golly gosh does any of that have to do with my question?
Q. What middlemen does crypto eliminate?
A. When I, personally, send money to my grandmother, every option available to me charges ridiculous fees.
Me, baffled again:
Crypto eliminating the middlemen between you and your grandmother is great for the two of you, but doesn't seem like a broadly applicable benefit for most people.
How does you not having to pay a fee counterbalance the energy output of Malaysia?
Q. What checks and balances in crypto reduce corruption among the rich and powerful?
A. Cryptocurrency always records where all of it goes.
Me, laughing in something like despair:
Since when have records been the same thing as checks and balances? Or even prevented rich folks from not reporting most of their wealth on the basis of "but it's unrealized, though!"
It doesn't matter that you can see they're cheating if you can't do anything about it! Where are the actual checks? Where are the actual balances? How does crypto make corruption tougher?
I don't feel as though my questions have been answered.
@DarrenWalker I don’t know lol, I’m tired / sleepy / 4:00am here 😅 its cool though we can agree to disagree … I’m for crypto & you’re not lol …. Nothing wrong with that ,,, I still think you’re associating the entire crypto space as being Bitcoin & I think I tried addressing that concern earlier but we came back full circle lol, to be honest I enjoyed the discussion lol goodnight bruh 😴 💤
The energy narrative against Bitcoin is really powerful because it's simple. Journalists only have a superficial understanding of the industry and the counter-arguments are complex in contrast. It's difficult to wrap it up in a bitesize narrative.
I think both sides make strong enough cases that I'm on the fence. I have limited interest in Bitcoin though so I won't bother defending it here. In any case, Ethereum is transitioning to green and that is where everything is happening right now.
On a net value vs expenditure perspective, this thread has presented several points of value. The fact they might not resonate with some people doesn't change that. They weigh differently based on an individual's circumstances and privileged position in the world. A recent reminder for me was seeing Apple Daily newspaper in Hong Kong finally lose their fight to the Chinese regime because their bank account was seized. Employees were sacrificing themselves to prison until that point.
However, what I think is a universal example of immense value is the parallel financial system (DeFi) being built. The world would be in a much better place today if each layer of the financial system was transparent and auditable. If a DeFi product uses collateral from another, it can see precisely the risk factors at play. If you have a derivative encompassing mortgages of different leverage, a tokenised world gives you full transparency of that in real time. This vision is closer than many think and soon enough your fintech banks will be bridging to DeFi (e.g. 'Current' just yesterday).
That's putting aside the value of DeFi that I find most interesting. A space that allows for true financial innovation. New ideas, economic experiments and lego like composability between services. It's just not possible in the traditional system.
@Mark Thank you, always appreciate your perspective & insight in this space!
When this thread was started on March 3 bitcoin was 50,368.69 .
Now it is 34,900. Something
You really don't want to choose that approach, it's a losing one.
It is difficult to predict an exact price.
My prediction is for Bitcoin to be a few hundred thousand in 2025.
Ethereum should be tens of thousands.
The U.S. dollar is used for more illegal tractions than anything. So you have to ban that before you consider banning any cryptos.