Non-Cuddling Question for my fellow Americans

sunnysideupsunnysideup
in General

A bit of a rant, but I was thinking about this a bit the other day. Does anyone else think the prevalence of a wage based on tipping for servers in restaurants does not make sense and is outdated? For most other jobs, the company pays its employees, rather than having the customer or client pay a company's staff their wage.

One might argue that it encourages the server to do better work. I have not seen any evidence that tipping is primarily responsible for this, based on my experience in establishments that are not tip-based. Someone else might have a different experience, though. Generally, incentivizing an employee's productivity usually leads to good results. Why not simply include the charge of service in the food cost (like all other costs like rent, supplies, etc are factored into the price of an item) and give a portion to the servers? Or give the server a standard hourly and reward good servers with a higher pay. It wouldn't end up actually costing anymore, would simplify the restaurant bill, and would no longer be an IRS nightmare.

I would also argue that tipping is unfair in that it creates scenarios where the waitstaff make significantly more than the cooks/kitchen staff. The primary reason I go to restaurants is the quality of the food, and most establishments do not share tips with kitchen staff. So if it gets really busy, everyone is working harder, except the kitchen staff are making the same wage they always do. A couple of figures I looked up online suggest that kitchen staff make an average of about $12.12 per hour, while servers make $17.39 per hour.

Welcome your thoughts and criticisms.

Comments

  • AmortentiaAmortentia

    A couple of figures I looked up online suggest that kitchen staff make an average of about $12.12 per hour, while servers make $17.39 per hour.

    If this is true then it is unfair. If it gets busier the kitchen staff needs extra pay because they are working extra hard and don't get tips like the others. So yeah if tips must be involved then all employees must be included somehow unless we have a bad employee so just simply let them go. Otherwise, remove tips all together.

  • luv2cuddle34949luv2cuddle34949

    I was on vacation somewhere that will remain nameless that in every restaurant and bar I got really bad service. Half way through the week I realized why, every establishment automatically included a 15% gratuity so the server was getting a tip regardless of the service they give. I’m all for tipping because that allows me to reward really good service but what I don’t agree with is the low wage servers are paid. That low of a wage makes them have to claim the tips as income. I believe that ALL servers get paid at least minimum wage allowing them to keep 100% of their tips. Basically, a tipped position in my opinion will force the server to provide superior service in order to raise their pay scale.

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    I liked my experience in Italy. No tipping, the service charge is added to the bill, which is shared among the waitstaff and I assume the kitchen staff as well. Also, the waitstaff work as a team, so you have several different people handling different dedicated tasks for the guests. Additionally, they carry around small credit card readers that include a printer, and complete the transaction right at the table so there are no issues with your card disappearing in back and risking having the info stolen (speaking from experience here). The whole experience is like a well oiled machine. We are behind the times in the USA.

  • cuddles_ndreamcuddles_ndream
    edited June 2021

    Places like Japan / China / Korea tipping is either seen as rude or totally not expected … many places in Europe are actually going against it & gov’t is forcing restaurant owners to pay a livable wage …

    I myself believe in tipping well as it has been customary to me as far back as I could remember (unless service is horrible which ive only experienced maybe twice in my life)…

    Edit: you bring up a great point about the kitchen staff, many don’t realize this & it is Ofcourse overlooked.

  • respectfulrespectful

    There's a reference to tipping starting at 2:15 in this Ryan George video (but the whole thing is worth watching!).

  • CuddleWhoCuddleWho

    American tipping practices are obviously completely irrational and counterproductive. But they're so embedded in our culture that it's basically impossible to change now.

    I wish I could remember where this was, but there was some group of restaurants that made the decision to pay their staff a more reasonable wage but to ban tipping. Bizarrely enough, customers hated it. The restaurants eventually gave up and went back to their old ways regarding wages and tipping.

  • Ironman294Ironman294

    I have had many friends work in the service industry and they prefer tips over standard he salary. They generally make more on tips.
    And in Europe I always round up or tip especially in Eastern European countries where their salaries are much lower I overtip. I want them to think well of Americans and Asians too.
    And they greatly appreciate it! And thank me profusely. It doesn’t hurt me much but helps them much more.

  • UKGuyUKGuy

    There are pro cuddlers charging $100 per hour that have in their profile 'tips appreciated'.

  • [Deleted User]cualtzin (deleted user)

    @UKGuy I’ve often wondered about this topic but have been too shy to ask. I don’t know if it is customary to tip pro cuddlers. In other service industries the expectations are common knowledge. But cuddling is more of a niche. I myself work in technical services. Tipping doesn’t exist in my slice of the service spectrum. But I did get an official Houston Texans cap once. And that made my day.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    @UKGuy indeed there are. I consider it a red flag.

    @cualtzin tipping is very country-specific, but here in the UK it would almost be considered odd to tip a professional cuddler. I know several who would be offended or at least embarrassed. Although, in the interests of balance, I have met at least one who would have been delighted.

  • herby357herby357

    @sunnysideup I'm a semi retired artist and have had many friends that worked in the food service industry. I was told that more often that not tips were pooled and then split equally amongst the wait staff. And they would in turn tip out the busboys, bar, etc. Typically, wait staff wages are well below minimum wage (which is allowed by law BTW). Once I learned this, I began to tip 20% irrespective of the service I received at sit-down restaurants in so far as the wait staff literally depend on tips to make ends meet. Our country has literally diminished to the haves and the have nots, and the vast majority of folks working in service industries e.g., hotels, restaurants, retail etc. don't even make a living wage.

    As far as tipping a professional cuddler, it's a matter of one's preference and not really on the provider from my perspective. I've tipped in the past after a particularly satisfying cuddle session. But as I've said. To each his own in that regard.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited June 2021

    Ok I worked as a waiter in an upscale restaurant when I was in my 20s and in college and what I discovered was waiting tables is highly sexualized. I was given Sundays and Tuesday and Wednesday brunches, and the waitresses told me those shifts were sh@t. I asked why and they told me they were dominated by old rich ladies who tipped two dollars. They got more from the male customers. My girlfriend at the time who got me the job there said not to worry I would be fine on those shifts. I actually did well with the old ladies who gave me hefty tips for 30 plus years ago. I was even invited to wait at a white glove event at one of their pinochle games. There would be $40 tips with innuendos attached. Old ladies would bring their friends in and say this is the guy I was telling you about. I would pull down hundreds of dollars a week for 15 hours part time work so tipping worked for me. But I know I wouldn’t pull down that kind of money now because I am not a chiseled, tanned college student anymore. That is just my story from years ago. I have no idea what it is like for a waiter or waitress now. I think people are taught etiquette far less today so I can see tips being down.

  • BabichevBabichev

    A few years ago a number of restaurants decided to put an end to tipping in their restaurants, raised their prices, and paid all the staff more equitably. Most of these restaurants ended up reverting to the tipping model. The customers did not like it. The waiting staff did not like it. I think the only ones who liked it were the kitchen staff because most of them ended up getting paid better.

    I’ve worked in restaurants, mostly as a cook but sometimes waiting tables. It’s a weird situation.

    If you look it up online, you can read articles on the restaurants who decided to put an end to tipping, how that experience evolved for them, and why that model has not caught on.

  • ZacRedBearZacRedBear

    @respectful I was going to link that video too! 😆

    I tip well because I know livelihoods depend on it, but dislike a system that relies on the generosity of the masses (especially entitled ones).

    I’ve been lucky to get decent tips, even at jobs where I was never intended to get any. However, I’ve had co-workers that worked just as hard or harder than me, but we’re a little less charismatic. They tended to make less tips because you know, superficial society.

    I may be a simple country-cuddler, but this leads me to believe America will continue to maintain tip-driven industries because of our capitalist tendencies. When people have mo money, they feel mo power. So when it comes to tipping “the help”, it makes them feel superior (maybe even subconsciously) to “help” in return.

    P.S. Hearing anyone being referred to as “the help” really infuriates me, so I don’t use that phrase lightly.

    P.P.S. Everyone add The Help and Waiting to your watchlists. Good night, and good luck.

  • BabichevBabichev

    @herby357 I’ve worked in a number of restaurants and so have a lot of my friends. I’ve never heard of the waiting staff pooling their tips in any of them. They do tip the busboys but, like the waiting staff, the busboys are then depending on the generosity of the waiting staff.

    Who really gets screwed is the kitchen staff. They work their rear ends off, it’s hot in the kitchen, and they are usually paid pretty poorly.

    One of the pioneers of the Hospitality Included movement is reluctantly reverting back to tipping because of the economic strains brought about by the pandemic.

    https://ny.eater.com/2020/7/20/21331797/danny-meyer-ushg-no-tipping-nyc-restaurants-outdoor-dining

    Research shows that tipping is influenced by racism and sexism and encourages harassment.

    https://www.eater.com/a/case-against-tipping?_gl=1*9jgorr*

    Apparently tip pooling is illegal in some states. Some restaurants collect the tips themselves, redistributing them as they see fit, including keeping some for the house. I’ve heard complaints about this from people who work in day spas.

    https://www.eater.com/2017/12/5/16708374/tipping-laws-trump-department-of-labor-changes

    Off the subject but tangential to this - I listened to an interview recently about wages in fast food chains where employees do not get tips and get paid low wages. A study done at Purdue University calculated that if the minimum wage were raised to $15/hour, prices in fast food chains would rise an average of 4%. So, a $7 meal at McDonalds would rise to $7.28.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/raising-fast-food-hourly-wages-to-15-would-raise-prices-by-4-study-finds-2015-07-28

  • [Deleted User]natickben (deleted user)

    There is an organization called One Fair Wage working specifically on this. I suspect tipped waitstaff will be a thing of the past before too much longer. Some places are already doing away with it

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup

    Thanks everyone for all the responses.

    Seems like generally folks are of the impression that tipping is outdated and unnecessary, but there are no solutions to transition out of it. It’s be tricky since there is already a tipping culture.

  • [Deleted User]Saysoh (deleted user)
    edited July 2021

    .

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