@Mike403 If you are vaccinated and wearing the masks where recommended, I see no problem with going to a concert. Lollapalooza pulled off their festival by requiring vaccinations to attend and there were only a handful of cases and no hospitalizations after the event.
I know that I won't change anyone's mind so I won't continue to argue but stating that every person who hasn't gotten vaccinated is actively trying to kill others will never make them want to get vaccinated. Grown up or not. That's no way to make someone work with you. Because while there are some jerks just selfishly not getting vaccinated I'm sure there's a large portion of others who have a myriad of reasons not to. And just because those are things you don't agree with doesn't mean they're trying to kill others.
I also understand this website and the mods are very pro vaccine and my comments probably aren't welcomed here.
But this us/them is the same type of mindset used by the Nazi's, the hutus and tootsies, and so many more to commit genocide. Fostering an us/them will never accomplish what anyone wants accomplished.
We're about public safety, @Sashamcgee , of which vaccines play a very key part, in addition to masks, hand washing, and social distancing. It's a fantastic stretch to equate public safety protocols and the science and proven effectiveness of vaccinations with Nazis and genocide - conspiracy theory, much? [-Sid]
@FunCartel - Your words here are that this vaccine technology is “thirty years old” you said.
First it was “10-year-old-technology” is what the mainstream news organizations were saying about mRNA vaccine technology.
Then some started saying that it is “20-year-old-technology.”
And now you are saying it is “30-year-old-technology.”
Is it possible that you’re moving the goalposts with how old and how developed this vaccine technology is because you so badly want this vaccine to be the perfect savior of your health and the health of your neighbors, when that may not in fact be the case?
Have you ever considered that this technology may have its own flaws like most other technology throughout the history of development?
And if this vaccine technology does have any flaws, guess what?
You cannot sue the vaccine/pharmaceutical companies and must suffer through a life of side-effects with no monetary compensation from a company whose flawed product led to your negative side-effects, to help you through your life-time suffering.
Pharmaceutical companies due have certain legal “immunity protections,” which other organization, like police, have in America too (immunity protections from justice and being punished for mistakes their organizations make; Anyone remember what happened to Breonna Taylor last year? How did that punishment go for the protected police class? Wasn’t too strong a punishment for them, was it?)
It is always grimly amusing when I read anyone making anti-science/anti-technology arguments on the internet...
@FunCartel - I started wearing a mask in grocery stores again. I dont at concerts. Nobody else is wearing a mask and I don't think it'll make a difference being the only one in there with a mask on. I get tested after the concert if I plan on seeing anyone.
@CharlesThePoet - Can you be a bit more specific about which specific anti-science posts you are referring to when you say that they are grimly amusing?
And then can we discuss those posts and claims in depth together in order to grow and learn and get closer to being on the same page about things?
@Sashamcgee Your argument is misguided and is inherently weak when Godwin’s Law is utilized to argue your point. First the majority of the country has had at least one shot and over half are fully vaccinated. The minority are the unvaccinated with the majority being kids. So the unvaccinated adults are a small minority. The Nazis were a minority not the majority so guess which side of the argument you put the unvaccinated on? I was tolerant of the unvaccinated for months, but the surviving lot I have spoken with say they need more info yet when asked what information that is they are vague and evasive. Many have said I will wait until it is FDA approved which might happen as soon as tomorrow. Now they switch and say they might not ever get vaccinated. So their reasons change with the wind and it is evident to everyone their stated reasons for hesitancy are bogus. Meanwhile, children are now dying needlessly.
Coddle them? Not anymore. They have had seven months of coddling. Look at where things are moving and the climate of tolerance for their needless hesitancy is evaporating— the University of Virginia disenrolled nearly 300 students Thursday because they did not get the vaccine. They were told months ago. Companies are now starting to require it.
If people refuse to get the vaccine on principle that is their right, BUT stop whining if people get on your case. Taking an unpopular stand requires sacrifice. Martin Luther King never whined. Die on that sword of unvaccination if you wish, but taking a true stand demands a backbone, not whining because one wants to be treated with kid gloves.
I say go to the mothers whose children have died or suffered from Covid and tell them to play nice with the unvaccinated.
"We're about public safety, @Sashamcgee , of which vaccines play a very key part, in addition to masks, hand washing, and social distancing. It's a fantastic stretch to equate public safety protocols and the science and proven effectiveness of vaccinations with Nazis and genocide - conspiracy theory, much? [-Sid]"
Obviously emotions played a factor in this response because I never equated anything more than an us/them mindset to anything. I'm not arguing for or against the vaccines. Read all of my statements again and you'll see that.
@NicoSnuggs - Existing vaccines do not prevent Covid. Vaccines were developed to prevent people from needing hospital and medical attention, to lessen serious and life-threatening symptoms caused from Covid. The issue of pharmaceutical litigation and liability is a different topic for another day, another thread.
Quoting @Tchazotte here, as his is one of the best summations of mRNA technology and what it means:
"That’s not what mRNA does. mRNA is how the body copies DNA. When a cell tries to make proteins, a strand of unsequenced mRNA is taken into the nucleus and sequenced off of the proper strand of DNA. It’s then taken to a Ribosome to build the amino acid chain, which is taken to the Golgi Complex for folding into the correct shape to make the finished protein. The mRNA vaccine does the same thing, just with a copy of a protein unique to the virus. Normally once a protein is made, it’s displayed on the cell membrane to be taken where it needs to be. In the case of the virus protein, it gets seen as a foreign object by the macrophages (the non specific white blood cells) and immediately destroyed. Those macrophages leave behind the protein and signals for the creation of B and T Lymphocytes (white blood cells specific to this infection). B lymphocytes use the protein found to create antibodies. T lymphocytes look for dead and dying cells to destroy. The feeling of being sick after any vaccine is not due to being infected, but due to the enhanced activity of the immune system. That’s actually true of a real infection as well. Half of the feeling of being sick is due to the increased activity of the immune system. A fever is the best example of this, because it’s a direct effect caused by increased metabolism."
@NicoSnuggs The article below will clear things up. The 1984 breakthrough is the seminal date on this as the synthesis of proteins is what is needed to make this science go. The goalposts, I assure you, are not moving as much as some people would like to think so.
https://the-dna-universe.com/2021/04/15/the-history-of-mrna-applications/
Moreover, bringing in something completely unrelated to the vaccines like Breonna Taylor is classic evasiveness. You can’t bring anything of substance to argue your point so you deflect—like using Nazis earlier. Fact of the matter is, no vaccine ever put into the marketplace has ever had side effects outside of six weeks. In addition, 99% of the people dying and being hospitalized are the unvaccinated. Common sense needs to enter in at some point.
@FunCartel I threw the hutus and the tootsies in there too 😉 and if I could have remembered how to spell Sunnis and Shiites i would have added them.
@Sashamcgee - "I never equated..." You did actually equate them.
"I also understand this website and the mods are very pro vaccine and my comments probably aren't welcomed here but this is the same type of mindset used by the Nazi's, the hutus and tootsies, and so many more to commit genocide."
I'm no Hitler, but I am fiercely science and fact-based.
Ahh I see the problem. I wrote that very poorly. There should be a period because I wasn't directing that at your mindset. Mea culpa
@Mike403 No argument here. I am glad you are vaccinated.
@FunCartel - Thank you for linking a source to the history of mRNA vaccines from the DNA Universe.
I think they is the first actual journalist/scientific information publication linked in this whole thread.
Much appreciated; Reading it now.
@Sashamcgee I question the mindset of anyone who compares anything with Nazis and genocidal groups when genocide isn’t involved. On second thought, willingly going unvaccinated and spreading the variant is a biological form of genocide.
I'm afraid of things getting even worse. I'm willing to look like the elephant man to not have to social distance anymore.
@FunCartel - Not so sure about your last point there chief.
According to the University of Alabama-Birmingham, there have been some long-term negative side effects from vaccines:
“In the original oral polio vaccine in the 1950s, when this vaccine was first introduced in the United States in 1955, it used a weakened form of the polio virus that in cases — about 1 in 2.4 million recipients — became activated and caused paralysis.
In 1976, a vaccine against swine flu that was widely distributed in the United States was identified in cases (approximately one in 100,000) as a cause of Guillain-Barré Syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves.
In 1999, a vaccine against rotavirus, which can cause life-threatening diarrhea in infants, was pulled from the market after more than a dozen cases of bowel obstruction were reported in the first six months of use. (After an extensive review of records, the case rate was determined to be about one case per 10,000 doses.) The greatest risk was found to be within three to seven days after the first dose of the vaccine.“
^ Negative side effects within the first six months for that rotavirus vaccine, and Pulled from the market too.
This is documented:
https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-what-are-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know
@FunCartel I question the mindset of people laughing at others getting sick. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Or not agree at all. Either way I'll be stepping away from this thread and go back to not commenting on covid threads. I'm not sure what inspired me to break that pattern but I'm certainly regretting it.
@NicoSnuggs You are welcome, but my question is this—I do not know if you are vaccinated or not, but so many of the unvaccinated say the same thing you said and stand by passively waiting for someone else to do the research even though they question everything everyone is telling them. This is what is called intellectual dishonesty, because you do not believe common knowledge yet it turns out you are ignorant of the history and science behind the knowledge espoused so you reject it not based on fact, but out of laziness and being a contrarian. I am not saying you are a lazy person, but it is a lazy argument.
@FunCartel - How dare you.
I resent your last post and comment to me, calling me ‘intellectually dishonest’ and saying a falsehood that I am ignorant of history and science, after I tagged you in an academic article related to the history of three vaccines.
Perhaps I need to post it again because you apparently ignored it the first time:
In 1976, a vaccine against swine flu that was widely distributed in the United States was identified in cases (approximately one in 100,000) as a cause of Guillain-Barré Syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves.
@Sashamcgee I wasn’t laughing at him. I stated a fact. He learned the hard way and nearly died on his own sword. He was lucky his kids didn’t die on it. Tell me where I laughed at him?
@NicoSnuggs Out of transparency those cases you are bringing up have been on CDC’s website for years. Those aren’t side effects, those are bad batches. There have been bad batches of aspirin too. Side effects are if something happens with a proper dose. If you want to cite manufacturing defects then you can stop buying anything from Amazon because everything has been recalled at some point. But go on the CDC website and you will see it there. Nothing new under the sun.
Moreover, Guillen-Barre is noted on the CDC website and they are now aware of it.
Our local news page posted in article on Facebook that people were dying before finding an available ICU bed and 90% of the reactions were laugh reacts. It takes a special kind of hate to laugh at something like that whether or not you're against vaccines.
@NicoSnuggs If you resent the remark then produce your own articles rather than dispute everything everyone is saying. Otherwise, yes you are being lazy. Half the crap you are citing is on the CDC website and walked through by the experts. Go read if you want to argue with those in the know.
@FunCartel - And the fact that a number of those points about flawed vaccines on the past are on the CDC website makes it even more publicly available that vaccine technology often has flaws, especially in development, as has been shown throughout history with the rotavirus vaccine.
You brush it under the rug likes it’s no big deal. Because it’s not a big deal to you.
Just like you brushed under the rug my very valid and concerning point that pharmaceutical companies, like many police organizations, are immune to justice being served to them under the law when they make mistakes.
How many more things are you going to ‘brush under the rug’ today?
@NicoSnuggs - Risk vs reward. You are far more likely to have severe complications from the virus than the vaccine.
Back on topic, please. "Booster Shot or Not". Much obliged. If you all want to get into pharmaceutical litigation and liabilities, do so in another very specific thread - not here.
Thanks.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html
Each case explained. @Mike403 is absolutely correct. Otherwise, I can post all the problems with cars from the Department of Transportation’s website and you won’t want to drive anymore either.
@Sideon - Out of respect of your request as moderator, I’m going to leave this specific thread alone about litigation after this last comment from me about the reason why I bring up our flawed litigation system here in the US:
Many would not and do not feel comfortable or safe getting a booster vaccine shot, because if they do, and they experience negative vaccine side-effects, such as what happened with the flawed rotavirus vaccine, then they (the common people getting the vaccine) cannot effectively sue or receive any type of financial compensation from the government or the pharmaceutical companies to deal with their healthcare bills and therapy bills which they will have to pay (out of their own pocket) in order to address and deal with the negative side-effects from a flawed vaccine down the line, such as what people struggled with in regards to the flawed rotavirus vaccine.
That is how my comment ties in with the original post about the Booster vaccine shots.