Female Opinions Please: “Gender Gap”

Comments

• CatInBoots (deleted user)

  July 2015 edited July 2015

  Interestingly, research on the subject actually shows that men are a little more into cuddling. Go figure!
  
  But I don't necessarily think that's the reason there are fewer women. I think it's mostly because women are generally less comfortable meeting men for physical contact from online. There's always the risk he will push to do more than just cuddle, and that isn't without justification. Other threads here show that a lot of men DO push for more than just cuddling.
  
  To be fair, apparently so do women around here. I've seen several men complain about that! In fact, that's why a lot of men are here -- it's hard to find people in general who won't make it sexual.
  
  But I think it's something women *worry* about it more than men do, despite that both men and women seem to struggle to find someone who isn't going to try to make it sexual. A man might consider the risk of running into a woman who's pushy to be merely an annoyance. But for women, the worry of what might happen is often much darker than that.
  
  I won't lie and say I don't worry about that, 'cause I do. I only started looking online because people I knew RL didn't work out (more on that in a second), and I'm still a little wary of it. There's absolutely no chance that I'll PM or respond to someone with nothing in their profile or a picture I find overly suggestive because it freaks me out! I think it's programmed into a lot of us, because we all know someone who's had a scary experience.
  
  I also think women perhaps have an easier time asking for what they want from people they already know. Socially, it's harder for men to ask for affection from anyone, especially someone they aren't dating, and perhaps using the internet makes them feel less vulnerable asking for that.
  
  My experience as a woman is that while it's easy to ask, it's not easy to keep it going -- a lot of men will say yes and then turn out to want something else, be that dating or sex. People don't seem to understand platonic cuddles very well! But the ease of entry, so to speak, may make women less likely to look online. They just keep trying RL instead, because it's easy to ask people they know (whether it works well or not) and they have an aversion to looking online.
  
• cherryalexandra

  July 2015

  I agree with CatInBoots, and want to emphasize the point she makes about the gendered social atmosphere.  It's definitely more socially acceptable for women to be cuddly and touchy, and stigmatized if men want that.  The internet is a seemingly easier way to acknowledge desires for non-sexual intimacy without any real life repercussions like friends thinking you're "weird".
• CatInBoots (deleted user)

  July 2015 edited July 2015

  We've been talking a bit in messaging, and I was asked to consider posting one of my replies here, so I am!
  
  This is pertaining to why fewer women use for-pay services which might mitigate their safety concerns, such as cuddle parties or one-on-one, either of which are performed or supervised by professionals who will enforce boundaries. They do try to keep gender numbers equal, but apparently this is difficult to achieve. My thoughts...
  --
  I think the reason why women may not visit fee based organizations
  might be a little more, shall we say, socioeconomic? And perhaps also
  the way female psychology tends to work in our gender environment.
  
  
  
  Women aren't used to the idea that we have to pay to access touch. We
  sort of have a "home advantage" when it comes to relationships of all
  kinds; again, it's easier for us to just ask people we know and not
  spend a dime. A similar comparison might be companion escorts -- escorts
  who don't have sex, but rather provide sort of a "date" atmosphere for
  pay -- which is almost an exclusively men-paying-women sort of industry.
  Women simply don't have to work that hard to find relationships (whether those relationships are good or what we need is another matter, but finding *something* is easier for women), so we
  don't.
  
  A massage makes a little more sense in our heads; we're paying
  for a service, not for a connection, and we're reasonably certain going
  in that it's going to be exactly what we want. This is always an unknown, when going into a connection-based situation where the other person has needs as much as you do. The masseuse is there to do exactly what you want, and only that.
  
  
  
  For me personally, and I don't know if this applies to other women but
  it might certainly apply to a lot of introverts, it was also an issue
  that I don't really want to be touched by multiple strangers. The person
  on this site I am talking to I don't plan on cuddling the first time we
  meet (and I don't think he does either). I'd like to get to know them
  first. I can be a little touch-reserved with new people, and I have to
  sort of intentionally build that into the relationship or it simply
  won't be there because I am a bit reserved unless I'm trying to be
  otherwise.
  
  
  
  I also think men are just more touch-deprived in general. A single man
  typically has absolutely no one he can have safe touch with. But a lot
  of women do -- women might cuddle with other female friends, and they
  have the aforementioned "home advantage" when looking for a man to have
  that kind of relationship with as well. The more deprived you are, the
  further you're willing to go to fix the problem. Since men are generally
  more touch deprived than women, men might generally be more willing to
  pay than women are.
  
  
  
  The way women access it is not always healthy, and I think social sexism
  plays into it to a certain extent, both ways. I know some women who
  seem to be trying to meet their need for touch and intimacy by offering
  sex, basically. Doing hook-ups when what they really want is intimacy.
  Women grow up having their value tied to their bodies, so that's what
  they offer in return for what the want.
  
  
  
  Conversely, men grow up with their value tied to their wallet. So that's what they offer in return for what they want.
  
  --
  I also agree with cherryalexandra, that using the internet for this purpose might make men feel less vulnerable when asking for something that's considered "not manly" by our rather punishing social standards for men.
  
• EclecticLeo (deleted user)

  July 2015

  Honestly, I didn't know there were more women then men on this site. Every time I do a search for what is around me, there are less than 20 guys. However, I do agree with the girls, there is a lot more affection available to us in our everyday lives. I'm thinking of just the way women greet other women or male friends. There is usually some hugging involved. On the other hand, when I watch men meet with other men, there usually isn't much affection going on.
• cs2971 (deleted user)

  July 2015

  Really? More women than men?  There must be something up with the search on the site; all I get is men - and I prefer women to cuddle. None have appeared yet. I would cuddle with a guy, but with some trepidation. But I think it would be good for me because I remember that there was a lack of early exposure to male touch growing up. My dad was not demonstrative. So, I feel much more comfortable with a woman. And that comes from weekend cuddles with mom that I thoroughly enjoyed. 
  
• BlueIris Mod

  November 2017 edited November 2017

  I haven't seen any statistics that prove that more men than women are interested in cuddling. That appears to be the OP's opinion and not backed up by any proof. I have read articles that state that women don't use the internet as much as men, that they prefer to find dates in real life rather than on dating sites, and that they are more fearful in general of meeting men in person that they have met online first.

  I can only speak for myself, which won't help answer the question because I'm an outlier. I have had far more success in meeting people in person that I first met online than in real life. I have more access to better educated, good quality people online than in real life. I don't feel there is any more risk in meeting someone I met online and have had corresponded with them for weeks than going out with someone I met at a bar or some half-assed fix-up with someone totally unsuitable arranged by well-meaning friends.

  What I do see evidence of on here and from people I've communicated with privately in messages and email is that for a lot of women, fear is a factor. Fear of meeting someone in person that they met online -- which I find totally irrational, but I'm the outlier -- and fear of cuddling someone that they just met. I always feel like we didn't "just meet" if I've spent a couple of weeks getting to know them by correspondence. I have no qualms about cuddling someone I just met at a cuddle party or someone that I've screened scrupulously online. Have I been lucky that I haven't been sexually assaulted yet, or have I screened well? Probably a bit of both. But the risk is the same, whether you're looking for a cuddler or looking for a date and whether you found them online first or in real life first.

  Obviously, I'm a woman with loads of self confidence. Some people think I'm fearless. I am not. I am afraid of reasonable things, such as wild animals that could rip my throat out, falling off a cliff and jumping out of an airplane in a parachute. But I am not afraid of being touched by anyone.
• chococuddles (deleted user)

  November 2017

  What kind of "progress" is the OP looking for? Free cuddling for everyone? Or for men and women to seek each other out equally?
• CMOS17

  November 2017

  I thought this was a recent thread, but I see it's from 2015 and CatInBoots isn't even here anymore, but since it's been revived ...

  Fear.

  I think Cat's first post eloquently expressed so many common concerns. Generally, I am all for keeping genders on even planes, but on this subject I agree that women have been taught by stories as well as experience that we need to be so cautious. Such thoughts of self-
  preservation occur daily, no exaggeration. Personally, it's a fear that I don't mind holding onto, as l think it serves its (important) purpose.

  @BlueIris It is so fantastic that you've had so many positive experiences. Perhaps you should write a book on how to be an outlier in that situation?

  I have no experience on cuddle sites, but from my experience with online dating, I can give an anecdotal, though not statistical, response: I've talked with guys for what felt like extensive conversations via text and phone where I've been assured that the guy understands my physical boundaries, whereupon those are pushed aggressively upon our very first IRL interaction. It's happened more times than it has not. So, I am sorry that guys like that have led guys on this site to experience less-than-optimal responses, but I don't see that culture changing here until it changes in the rest of society, IMHO.

  Finally, in addition to my amens to Cat and Blue, as a female, I suspect it takes a lot more information and time for me to feel like a situation would be safe for me, which is of utmost importance. Who can enjoy a cuddle if they don't know if they can feel safe? That does not mean that if I don't respond to you, I think you're unsafe, nor that I'm trying to be unkind to any of the beautiful souls here! Quite simply, to reply to every message l receive and get to that level of trust is not practical for the amount of time and work it would require to do that with everyone. I know that in many ways this puts me at an advantage on this particular site in feeling like l have more choices, and I empathize with the feeling of not having as many options. (IRL, I seem to be more on the disadvantaged, diluted group more often, so I understand the frustrations; this site has actually helped me understand the other side of things better in the female-dominated settings that happen to be prevalent in most of my activities.)

  If anyone does want more thoughts to Cat's point on how women are taught to value our sexualization more than men, the documentary "Miss Representation" on Netflix is excellent. Watch it while cuddling a feminist.
• Sunflowerfield (deleted user)

  November 2017 edited November 2017

  I've wondered about this myself - it's common on both dating sites and platonic cuddling sites. There seem to be far more men eager to find women to connect with. If you look at the Cuddle Buddies subreddit, it's almost entirely dominated by M4F posts. I do think as others have said, safety and fear is a huge factor for women, as well as the fact that it's more socially acceptable for women to show platonic affection to friends, family and so on.

  I think also women are less isolated in general, as women tend to build stronger support networks of friends while men seem to get isolated more easily and are less likely to have deep, close friendships with men they can confide in. I get the feeling that many women are happier and more content being single than men are, probably for this reason.

  There may also be a sense of embarrassment or peer pressure that stops women from looking online to meet their relational needs - many women would see it as a bit desperate or weird to look for platonic friends or cuddle buddies on the internet, and think it means they are a social failure or outcast. I don't see it that way though, I just think it's a convenient way to expand my options and meet people outside my usual circles.
• CMOS17

  November 2017

  @Sunflowerfield Excellent point. I think a woman could feel a certain sense of undesirability to pay for a cuddle, especially when Western culture often mocks men for (though not necessarily true, certainly a dialogue in our culture) being primary consumers of things like pornography, prostitution, and the notion that guys will be happy to get any action, even from women they don't find attractive. With that subtext along with the economics of the sexualization of women, perhaps there's a feeling of less value for a woman if she were to pay for physical affection rather than being the one paid.

  Not that I agree that any of these conceptions are factual
• BlueIris Mod

  November 2017

  @IGuessImHete Thanks for your kind words, but I wouldn't know how to convince someone who is inherently fearful to become not fearful any more than how to convince someone who has brown or blue eyes to have green eyes like I do. Since I've never experienced the kind of fearfulness you describe towards men, I don't have any way to judge whether it is something that can a fearful person can desensitize themselves to or whether one can become less fearful and more confident with good experiences.

  I would suggest, though, that a good way for a fearful person to get started is to find a cuddle party. The environment is a safe container. The people there are all warm, friendly and on the same page. They go over the rules at the beginning, and there are facilitators there who you can speak to if you're experiencing an uncomfortable situation with someone. I can't think of a safer way to meet and cuddle with strangers than that.
• Sunflowerfield (deleted user)

  November 2017 edited November 2017

  @BlueIris I suspect the women who are fearful are likely to be women who have experienced serious harassment, assault and/or sexual abuse, which is extremely widespread. Those who haven't experienced it are less likely to be overly wary and cautious.

  @IGuessImHete well I think there is even a stigma for women seeking out friends or cuddle buddies online that are free, though perhaps milder than for women seeking out pro cuddlers. I've never used a professional cuddler myself, as there are none in my area - though I have had four cuddle buddies over the last two years.

  Another factor that might play into this is that women know a lot of men who want to cuddle them will end up feeling attracted to them, which may put them off to some extent - a lot of women will only cuddle men they are romantically/sexually interested in, for this reason. I know my experience with male cuddle buddies is that it often gets a bit awkward after a while.

  And if the women are straight, they are less likely to seek out female cuddle buddies online (though I have had straight women contact me on occasion).
• CMOS17

  November 2017 edited November 2017

  @BlueIris I love the cuddle party suggestion!

  And just to restate, I actually don't want to lose the fear. So maybe your book would not be targeted at me Just trying to offer a little look into this female psyche in response to OP asking for thoughts on the gender gap. What I'd share is that I have the fear and plan on keeping the fear--to a healthy extent.

  Thanks and hugs!
• PinkLipstick22

  November 2017

  I'll chime in to answer the original post since it's likely still relevant. Non-pro female cuddlers on here get overwhelmed with messages, many of them either skeevy or so vague as to not warrant a reply ("cuddles?" and "want to be my cuddle buddy?" were the most common by a wide margin - both very vague and with no attempt to get to know the person being messaged. The only response to both of those is "I don't know yet"), that I think it feels like a ton of work for women seeking out a quality cuddle buddy to sort through all the messages or respond and ask for what the first message could have said.
  I know this because I originally signed up incorrectly and appeared as a non-pro, but I do value the insight.
  Another thing is that women tend to have more friends who cuddle them or would be open to that. It's unlikely to become a need at the level that they would seek out a site like this at the same rate that men do. I know that's stereotyping, and of course there are women who seek it out (I've had the pleasure of cuddling some of them, and it's been a wonderful experience), but it's likely to remain a gender divide in general until technology evens the field (no contact for anyone )

  Advice would be to come from a stand point of "giving" when contacting non-pros. Understand they are receiving a ton of messages and be open. It's a conversation; how would you open in real life if you approached a woman at a bar?
  Lastly, if a woman is on here for platonic cuddles, she only needs a couple solid cuddle buddies. She isn't going to be on the same wavelength as pros (Pros understand that we are the more giving side when being paid. People pay us because they are in a place where they really need to receive cuddles and likely aren't in a place where they can emotionally give, although a good number are. We know our job is to be giving and to provide a space of welcome, light, and healing for each and every person that we can. When I'm cuddling friends, I'm being selfish for my own needs, too, because I'm also there to receive). A non-pro going to want her cuddle needs and safety needs to be met, so be prepare to give more. Focus on being the best cuddle companion you can be, each and every time, and you should get pretty great results.
  This is my own perspective, of course, but I'm writing it to maybe help a little bit for people who want to try a non-pro or would like to find a long-term cuddle companion who could become a friend. I hope some of you find this helpful.

  I will also take a contrary stance and say that I would actually feel more comfortable paying someone for cuddles than meeting a stranger for cuddles. When the situation is professional, the rules can and are more clear and there is a contract agreed to by all parties. A non-pro male, met online, would likely not be trained in the etiquette and "rules" of platonic cuddling and might be confused on what it is or even think it's a date. So, for me, I'd prefer paying a pro for cuddles (male or female for me) if one of my cuddle friends wasn't available.
  .

  I'm sorry that was so long! I haven't talked about cuddling in awhile it seems.
  As always, Happy Cuddling!
• CMOS17

  November 2017

  @PinkLipstick22 Beautiful insight. Thanks for the post
• PinkLipstick22

  November 2017

  @IGuessImHete, thank you.
• ChinchillaChive (deleted user)

  November 2017

  Confused why there are more men than woman, refuses to want men to comment. What...Don't you want the majority opinion to figure this out? Being exclusionary isn't gonna solve anything. Other than that who cares even if OPs opinion is true. Maybe most ladies don't go on any form of dating site out of fear? Who knows. I certainly don't.
• pmvines

  November 2017

  @ChinchillaChive the thread is from 2015, not sure if the original poster is even around anymore