Not sure why you're perseverating on "Toxic Masculinity" but in case you have a differing definition...
And that's why it's part of the conversation.
adding
"For this reason I think the big emphasis on "toxic masculinity" and focusing on mens' collective moral failing is mostly misplaced." ~ @CuddleWho
It's not a "big emphasis" just a foundation for all the other elements to grow on. And to say the focus on "mens' collective moral failing is mostly misplaced." IMO is incorrect. But for the sake of argument, if not in a thread titled, "I'm always hopeful, but always disappointed in men š¢" then where??
There is no one answer. I knew a true misogynist (I didnāt know it at the time) that was a casual friend of mine years ago. He was 36 when I set him up with another casual friend who was 31 and coming off a divorce. She had told me she liked tall country boy types that had a brain. This guy had two degrees and owned a large farm. So I decided for the first time in my life to play matchmaker.
Long story short, they went on a date and they had consensual sex sort of. She agreed to sex because she was attracted to him, but he choked her, pulled her hair etc. Now let me say she is 5ā2ā and this guy is 6ā4ā. She said she didnāt like that and he proceeded to tell her yes you do you little āb_tchā and other stuff. He drove her home and she cried all the way home in his truck. When they got to her house he had the gall to say āYou will thank me in the morning. They all do. They just hate to admit they need to be broken.ā I lost her as a friend because she thought I should have known (I didnāt but I am not a woman). When I confronted him about it he just said āF her. Who gives a F what she wants.ā Of course we are no longer friends.
The chilling part? This sociopath became a state representative at the state level.
So the cliche about thinking with the small head is way too simplistic. Sometimes pushing boundaries is about sex, but it can also be about power, sometimes hate, but rarely in those instances it it about the other person.
@FunCartel That's heartbreaking. I hope she was able to recover emotionally, that sounds awful.
@rezz I saw her about two years ago in a grocery store. She remarried and had three kids and a wonderful husband. But you really canāt undo broken trust.
@FunCartel that's horrific.
With the few men I have met from here that's what stands out the most. The respect for me as a person, honoring my boundaries and checking in and asking consent. And not pushing the issue or sulking when I say no.
They really are worth thier weight in gold. They allow me to feel both physically and emotionally safe and valued.
@KYtransplant yes and it works both ways, because with female cuddlers there are ones that understand give and take and arenāt desperately needy or complacent so I have learned to hang onto the ones that make me feel good about myself when I am with them. As far as all these scenarios with female cuddlers that push boundaries out of the blueāuntrue. Yes it does happen more frequently than a lot of people realize, but the big difference isāthey ask!
@FunCartel
As far as all these scenarios with female cuddlers that push boundaries out of the blueāuntrue. Yes it does happen more frequently than a lot of people realize, but the big difference isāthey ask!
You're literally just calling me a liar?
Yes, I've had many instances where female cuddlers ask or otherwise try to consensually initiate something sexual, either for pay (pretty rare) or just out of their own desire (pretty common). That is way more common than reading this forum would lead one to believe.
But I've also had instances where women touched me sexually in ways that I clearly don't want, including after I've told them to stop multiple times. You saying the word "untrue" doesn't change this.
@KYtransplant ~ It's delightfully refreshing isn't it?! The number of positive encounters I've had here nearly eclipse the bad.
What's most unfortunate is that when bad happens, there's little to no closure. So those interactions, though they may be infrequent, can cause compounding harm.
But yay for the golden among us!! What a lovely treasure trove of cuddlers we have here!!
@CuddleWho Put the brakes on dude. I was speaking IN GENERAL because yours was not the only post to allude to this. Where did I quote you or refer to you? If I was calling you a liar I would have tagged you and said so. Here is an example if I was going to do something along those lines:
@CuddleWho You might want to see someone about that passive-aggressive streak combined with your feelings of persecution. There is help!
@quixotic_life
It's not a "big emphasis" just a foundation for all the other elements to grow on.
Well, yes, and what I'm saying is it's a fake foundation. It's not all that strongly related to what's going on here.
When a woman tries to initiate sex with me a few times, I say no multiple times, and then she keeps out of the blue grabbing my junk... is that a completely different phenomenon than when men do something like that? I'd argue that it's probably due to pretty much the same phenomenon: she's frustrated at not getting what she wants, and she's either oblivious to or doesn't care about my feelings and bodily autonomy. So it's just bizarre to me to say it's due to "toxic masculinity" when men do it, and then when women do it, uh, is that also "toxic masculinity"? Or "toxic femininity"? Or what?
It's neither. It's being a selfish and/or oblivious person, and men just happen to more often be in a position where that particular type of poor behavior is manifested.
It is honestly disheartening that this sort of thing happens everywhere whether its online or off, even on a platonic site such as this. Almost every pro I've cuddled so far has a story to tell of their boundaries being crossed. I can never 100% understand the depths of it, but I can empathize. The type of men who do this obviously aren't going to advertise it in public outings.
There IS some second hand experience I can attest to, & the worst part is knowing I'm only seeing a fraction of it. Most notably is when one friend trusted me to be her moderator for her Twitch channel. You guy's. Her usual content involves videogames, tarot readings, and dancing. Nothing non platonic ever!! Yet that has not stopped the internet from either shaming her for being objectively attractive by labelling her a "thot", nor the bundles of sexually harassing suggestions she recieves. The particularly hefty amount of comments I find myself deleting a night is staggering. She'll have me ignore comments like "you're so pretty" (which can be hard to tell if they're coming from another woman), but comments like "can I see your feet" are always a definite no. It's eye rolling when these same guy's will see that they're banned & dm me asking "why was I banned" like BRO! Or they'll just threaten me. That's always fun.
This also isn't my first milkshake related alias, so it can get a little funny/weird to see what other guy's might have to say to you when they think you might be a girl. šš
Then there's the irl example in a close platonic friendship I have with someone, where I can pretty effortlessly pretend to be her boyfriend on the fly if she feels like she needs the guy repellent.
So yup. Definetly have no issues believing stories the women in my life need to vent about. I've seen the proof. Just because you're not seeing it with your own eyes doesn't make it untrue. Now it's proving that which becomes the hard part.
@CuddleWho ~ Sigh... I'm gonna have to bow out... Could be the Covid, or could be I'm just over trying to explain to you, or any singular being, that although you may have valid circumstances and reasons for concern, they by no means invalidate those of others, nor do they dimishish the severity and preponderance of those happenings to others, and above all else they don't require being thrown into the mix repeatedly to distract from the fact your friends with bones to throw, bones to gnaw on, bones to pick, etc. need to be for each other to figure out instead of wagging them in our non consenting faces. Basically, it's not about you or your dick.
@Shake49 Mmmm, you look so hot in chocolate and that clear straw accessory just sets off the cup. You look good.
@FunCartel Kinky.
~ Sunset Snuggles
@CuddleWho I dont believe you are lying when you say that has happened to you. And for what its worth I am very sorry to hear about your experience and I think it is terrible. Nobody deserves to have their bodies be violated or sexually assaulted. What I dont agree with is using it to somehow discredit or disprove the mass sexualization of women .
@FunCartel stop!! ššš¤£
@pmvines
What I dont agree with is using it to somehow discredit or disprove the mass sexualization of women .
I also don't agree with that. Consequently, I didn't do it.
@Shake49 I canāt believe I just sexualized a diabetic enhancement. š¬
@CuddleWho Are you literally calling @pmvines a liar?
@pmvines unfortunately, that happens all the time. Whenever thereās a thread anywhere, (TikTok, Facebook, cuddlecomfort) that has to do with the ongoing issues of women being hyper sexualized and treated horribly, a lot of men always jump in to invalidate or derail the conversation. They say āme too, me too, women are horrible too!ā Instead of just recognizing what we go through. If I was reading a thread specifically designed to talk about men and the horrible stuff they go through, I wouldnāt jump in and say āF your feelingsā¦ā but thatās what happens. Instead of talking about how crappy these men are for sexualizing us or abusing us, they immediately victimize themselves or victim blame us. Itās really tiring. I want men to feel comfortable in expressing feelings without some jerk in the background making fun of them but when they only do it during discussions of womenās suffering, itās hard to sympathizeā¦
These threads need to be locked quickly whenever these types of arguments breaks out. This is a site about comfort.
@Sheena123 it's like the reverse racism argument . People have a hard time wrapping their heads around the notion that saying black lives matter is not he same as saying white lives dont matter.
@Mike403 Ahhhh, Southern Comfort.
Here is a better ideaā¦instead of locking the thread, everyone takes a shot of Southern Comfort whenever a guy comes on and tells his victimization story at the hands of these unhinged female tormentors and equivocating it to female victimization.
@FunCartel - I'd be drunker than a dog.
@pmvines oh god I know! Like, no one is saying men donāt have moments of pain and suffering, but damn, is it really that hard to admit that women get treated worse? Is it really not that noticeable despite all us women screaming it out loud? Iād love to go for a walk broad daylight without a guy yelling out sexual obscenities from their pick up truckā¦ Iād love to go to a bar for some karaoke without a biker commenting on my chest and forcing me to thank him for his ācomplimentāā¦ Iād love to not have a country control what I can and cannot do with my bodyā¦ some of these men need to recognize their privilegeā¦
@mike403 But you would sleep well
@Mike403 ~ I think these threads need to be encouraged. It's a messy heated topic but it needs addressing. I mean if we're ever going to make things better for everyone involved were gonna have to talk about it.
@quixotic_life Yeah, talk about it. But I still like the drinking about it part too.
Of course if a guy gets drunk then one of those perverted women might do another assault. They are everywhere!!
@FunCartel Alcohol doesn't solve anything.
...Neither does water. š
Oh yeah! I better get a drink of water. All this hot air has me parched!!