At this point, this thread and the other thread should just be combined.
@stdisc0827 Stating a fact is not bashing men. 50% or more of the people on here try something sexual with the person they cuddle with. That is just fact. I don't know the actual number. I'm using that as an example.
You are frustrated with men being bashed on here but can't see How much more frustrating it would be to have to deal with that as a professional cuddler?
And in what way are cuddlers out here using their leverage? And even if they are, why should it be reported? But let's say you're right that they are using their leverage. So now each group for lack of better word has a con. One of those cones definitely outweighs the other.
Pointing out site rules that you agreed to is not bashing men. Yes, hopefully you learn.
@stdisc0827 I don't think this site bashes men. In fact I see more women bashing: talking over them, countering and mansplaining their experience and perspective , venting about them, and complaining about them.
From my experience, women don't respond to that type of rhetoric no matter how validating or logical it may seem to the speaker.
If your goal is cuddle and meet and befriend women, disrespecting them is not a good starting point imo.
No one is disrespecting anyone I started feeling that, the more someone explains, the more they will be misunderstood… lol 😂 All I am saying is if things don’t go the way you want, only better communication helps and if one thinks that all men are same and they are always looking to take advantage then it is totally wrong… if you have better solution other than effective communication, please state that.. it will help everyone..
@cylee1180 Wise words.
It can be very easy to be misunderstood in a bad way when you speak uncharitably about any specific group or gender. A person could mean well or just need someone to teach and inform them, in theory, but it won't sound that way. And a guy that keeps on hammering his point starts looking like a guy that can't take no for answer, even if he is actually a very respectful person.
@achetocuddle It's true. It's important to look beyond your own viewpoint and put yourself in others shoes. Pple respond to reason and compassion, but less so with lecturing or directives.
@stdisc0827 I've explained the situation as best I could from a women-friendly perspective - and they are being disrespected majorly here. They got that high pain tolerance!
For those that actually understand why women are angry at their experiences here or understand why we are tired of being objectified, thank you. When women say “all men”, you have to understand why. There are way too many men saying #notallmen and invalidating womens experiences as opposed to simply understanding WHY we say it.
I’ve heard way too many cis males here say they are tired of rejection and that women should do what men do and give men the benefit of a doubt. “I”m a nice guy. Give me a chance”… it honestly must be so nice to be that oblivious to the dangers women face.
Men are tired of rejection. Women are tired of being raped, objectified, sexually harassed and literally having our bodily autonomy being taken from us. We are not the same. Our experiences are not the same. When a woman comes in here to find understanding and support by describing her experiences of being groped or treated as a piece of meat, we don’t want to hear “well, men have it bad here too”…. We don’t want to hear that.
I fully understand that rejection sucks but if your first words coming out of your mouth are “notallmen”, instead of trying to truly understand that women were, are and always will be viewed as little sexual pleasure toys for men who don’t see us as human, you don’t deserve sympathy. 100%….
The only time I’ve noticed men fighting for men and mens feelings is during a conversation of women literally talking about being brutally and sexually harassed.
If you feel offended by the “all men” slogan, it means you don’t care to understand and you are definitely one of them.
@Great_pillow, if it’s any comfort to you, we probably ban almost that many women - scammers, women offering non-platonic services, women who just can’t seem to abide by their agreements. Some time I’ll have to scroll through the recent bans and see what is the ratio. I may be way off.
There's a darkness in the collective male psyche. An energy that looks upon the feminine as objects of desire and pleasure.
I believe it stems from a fear that says, "You're not loved, and if you want love, you're going to have to steal it".
Which of course is impossible, love can only be given freely. And if these men were sensible about their insecurities, they would be trying to give and show love, not corrupt it with assault and harassments.
I applaud the women here who face this danger everytime they meet with a man.
I do believe that a future society would be so amazing if it saw the gift of platonic touch as normal and commonplace.
But I sometimes question if I have the emotional maturity to cuddle with a beautiful human being and not become romantically attached.
To the men reading this post, I want to try to make a suggestion to really look deep inside the desires that brought you here, and be sure that you're here to connect with real people with feelings and insecurities of their own.
To the women, thank you for sharing your experiences, I think it's really helpful that we all read your experiences and understand how commonplace these unwanted behaviours are.
And to everyone, let's think critically, with compassion, as to what we can do individually and together to spread awareness and prevention of these unwanted behaviours.
What @Sheena123 said. ^^^^^^
If you’re not part of the solution there’s a good chance you’re part of the problem.
I could be wrong but I have the feeling that the section on mansplaining in this video might bear some relevance. The first two sections are on unsolicited dick picks and catcalling. Here he was in 2017 saying, “I can’t believe we’re still having this conversation” and it’s 2020 and yes, it’s still happening. So there’s that. I just banned a guy yesterday for that. But it was the one on mansplaining that I thought might be relevant. It’s a word I only rarely use and I don’t often think it’s helpful but I do think that what he has to say about it is helpful. It’s good advice for anyone not part of a particular marginalized group jumping into conversations among those individuals, being respectful and pointing out that they know more about their lived experience than you do. It starts at the 8:04 mark.
As a women, I wholeheartedly disagree with
"If you feel offended by the “all men” slogan, it means you don’t care to understand and you are definitely one of them."
And
"If you’re not part of the solution there’s a good chance you’re part of the problem."
If someone is offended and seemingly disinterested in understanding (but often in actuality it's just they are focusing their words on their feelings, which are two different things), it is not likely that they're hateful and awful people, but rather it is usually indicative that they themselves are HURTING. Pot kettle. Why is only one group of people permitted to feel hurt, isolated, alone, misunderstood, to desire to be seen and understood, etc? All people are valid in their feelings, and those feelings don't make someone evil or terrible on that feeling alone.
@ubergigglefritz because they don’t have their rights as men being stricken from. Certainly not as severe as women. And as I said, if a man is coming from a place of understanding or trying to understand, that’s fine. If they want to question me or find out why women react the way they do, I’m fine with showing them or describing to them what we go through.
I’ve never said men don’t go through trauma or never experience anything negative or bad. My argument and whole post is about the men (whether they are hurting inside or not) making the conscious decision to go after the women who are merely trying to reach out. Instead of understanding why the woman is reaching out or why she feels the way she feels, they start invalidating her by saying “it’s not all men, you should have done this, you should have done that, I’ve never Personally done anything to a woman therefore your experiences are a lie”. I’ve even seen some men right here in the conversation say that. “I’ve never seen a man do something horrible to a woman therefore this problem doesn’t exist”. Well, it does. And it happens WAAAAYYYYYYY more to women than men. That’s why it irks me that every single post where a woman is saying how she’s tired of men groping her, harming her, sexually assaulting her, here come the “notallmen” people.
I’ve said this before but until men have to fully experience what women go through, their experiences will never be equal to women. Never. Women and feminine presenting people experience far worse than what a man does. Period. Go ahead and say “well, men get raped too, men go through trauma too”. Yup. That sucks. But it isn’t as heavy as the experiences of women. Once almost all men go through the fear of walking outside even during the day, can’t have both headphones in because you have to listen to your surroundings, have your car keys in a certain way in your fist to protect yourself, cover your drink at a bar even while you’re still holding it, and of course have a whole ass government come down on you and steal your rights to your very own body, WE ARE NOT EXPERIENCING THE SAME THING.
Of course I sympathize with what men feel. But the fact that there are men that have literally sent me threatening messages just from me saying “I’m sorry for what you go through. I’m here for you”, shows a lot of these men that fight the “all men” slogan don’t want to progress. They don’t want to understand. And they don’t want to better themselves and come forward with their feelings. (Until a woman created a post about her trauma and abuse of course….)
So I’ll say it again: men experience abuse as well but not as roughly as women. Period. Oh f you don’t care to understand the reason we say All Men, that’s on you. If you would prefer to ignore it and say boo boo to me and only me, that’s on you.
@Sheena123 I understand your words and I definitely see you. There is a lot of passion and emotion in your words, and I know there is absolutely a reason for it. 💜 This is why I do what I do and am here in the first place. I will never invalidate one person's experience and feelings because of a perceived ranking of their relative degree of those feelings to other people. I also refuse to rank my own trauma relative to other people's trauma. 1) It's impossible to truly know what anyone else is experiencing, we are all unique. And 2) Their experience and feelings are real for them, no matter what other people may be experiencing. / I am here to share and spread compassion, not shame. 🤗
@Sheena123 Any assertion that begins with "All men...xyz" is almost certainly false. I am a man, and if I am not "xyz," then making such an assertion, denies my very existence. If the assertion were changed to "most men ... xyz," it might be true, but unless any such assertion is validated (if such validation were possible), then that assertion should also be avoided. If the assertion were changed to "many men ...xyz," then nobody could dispute the assertion.
The reason that discussions of this sort become so heated, is that "xyz" carries a lot of baggage. As a result any such discussion tends to become emotional, rather than rational. It's been my experience that once any such discussion becomes emotional, there will be two diametrically opposed assertions, neither of which can be validated. Once a discussion reaches that point, the discussion becomes useless.
Let's examine a similar type of assertion that doesn't have baggage attached to it. Many years ago (very many) I took a course in modern philosophy. One day, we discussed the assertion that "All Ravens Are Black." The discussion was about whether or not such an assertion could possibly be validated.
Consider that all objects in the universe can be divided into four four classes, in such a way that any object would belong to two, and only tow classes. The classes are are Ravens, Non-Ravens, Black Objects, and Non-Black Objects.
If we were to examine all members of the class Ravens, and found no members of the class Non-Black Objects, then the assertion would be validated. Unfortunately, that's impossible. We could never be certain that we hadn't missed one, and that the one we missed might not be black.
If we were to examine 10 ravens, and all of them were black, would we have any evidence that they are all black? Probably not. What if we examined 100, 0r 1,000, or even 1,000,000 ravens. Could we actually conclude anything? We were looking at some members of the class of Ravens. It could be argued that examining members of the class of Non Black Objects would be just as useful. If we were to examine 1,000,000,000 members of the class of Non-Black Objects, and find no Ravens, does that tell us anything about Ravens?
Clearly, the above discussion of ravens is actually meaningless nonsense. In my opinion, this emotional discussion about "all men..." is just as non-sensible. Couldn't we make some attempt to avoid the emotions, and get the conversation back to a rational level?
@GreatHornedOwl Rational thought unfortunately leads to understanding.
@GreatHornedOwl 👏👏👏👏👏
@GreatHornedOwl
I think we must be careful when applying formal logic, to emotionally created statements.
Some users on this post have an emotional response and past experience with the subject of male participants pushing agreed platonic cuddles in a sexual direction.
The user you're replying to wasn't really communicating a statement of hard fact, but instead a statement of her experience and perspective.
And in general, I want to always shift conversations towards what is a person trying to communicate and away from semantic analysis of the words used.
It's an unpleasant experience to hear statements rooted in personal truth, that make negative assertions about groups you identify with, in this case, men.
I want to suggest, we separate those feelings of male persons feeling uncomfortable about generalizations regarding their gender into a separate post.
The main topic of this post is that there is a wide spread pattern of men pushing for sexual encounters on this site, and that is an undeniable reality. Men and women all stand to benefit, when we shine a light on this issue and address it plainly.
@Babichev Sad part is those that listen don't need it and those that do need it won't listen.
@BigSmiles thank you 🙏 I think some people overlook that it’s a genuine plea for others to understand what women face on this site and in general day to day living when faced against men. I know so many amazing men that are incredibly respectful and actually see me as a human being. They understand why women say “all men” and they don’t feel offended or conflicted with it because even though the statement says “all”, these respectful men in my life know that it’s a phrase based off of precaution.
There are a dozen cookies in front of you. A few of them are poisoned, so you aren’t going to touch any of them for fear of being poisoned. The fact that women are harmed so often by men, it makes sense that we would want to play it safe until we are comfortable enough with them. We don’t want the poisoned cookie. We take our time. Honestly, even after we spend so much time getting to know someone and finally put trust in them, they still harm us. I mean, even some stories here talk about a woman being friends with a guy and the guy after 2 years of friendship said he’s been waiting for her to want to have sex… we are constantly being told to get over this fear of all men but when you’ve gone through almost every day experiencing some form of harassment by men just because you’re a woman, why do you still blame us? How is there never understanding on this from the notallmen group?
There have been so many times where a couple guys from a group of men are harassing me and making the most disgusting sexually inappropriate comments to me and the rest of those men just watch, or laugh or say nothing. It’s all men until it’s no men. Period. I won’t stand here validating my very real problems to those that don’t care to actually understand where it’s coming from. Almost all of us women are just tired of walking from work to the car and getting catcalled. Going to the bar for karaoke and having a guy grab at you. Going to the gym and being pushed against a wall. Going to a grocery store and being gawked at by gross men. Working at my day to day job being told I’d look prettier with make up on and I need to smile more. This is a daily thing. We just simply want it to stop. That’s all. And some of you are offended by that. Instead of complaining about the phrase “all men” and how it’s harmful or generalizing one gender, maybe try to see where it’s coming from.
@BigSmiles You said "It's an unpleasant experience to hear statements rooted in personal truth, that make negative assertions about groups you identify with, in this case, men." It is not only unpleasant, but it is also generally untrue.
You also said that "The user you're replying to wasn't really communicating a statement of hard fact, but instead a statement of her experience and perspective." You and I both know that it wasn't hard fact, but she (and several others here) most certainly stated it as if it were.
We hear all kinds of negative assertions about many groups, that are both invalid and unfair. "The Irish are drunks." "Jews are cheap money grubbers." Italians are gangsters," "Blacks are stupid." "Women are overly emotional." "Immigrants are here to steal our jobs." "Men are always groping." "Politicians are all crooks." "Gays are out to corrupt our children." "Southerners are hateful bigots." "Doctors are just in it for the money." "lawyers can't be trusted."
The list can go on and on. Is it any surprise that members of a group find it "unpleasant" the hear such invalid assertions." I belong to two of those groups, and I can tell you that hearing such crap is more than just unpleasant, whether it be directed to one of my groups, or to any other group.
Everybody has had some negative experience with a member or members of some group. My mother was carjacked and then brutally beaten to death by a black teen aged boy who "needed" a car. Emotions might have left me with thinking that "blacks are violently dangerous," but it shouldn't have, and it didn't.
When any conversation begins with one of those kinds of assertions, the rest of the conversation will likely be filled with emotional garbage that's not worth listening to.
I can recognize the discomfort you're feeling. Maybe you're not feeling like you're being listened to. Maybe you're afraid that if you don't step in, your world will slip further into one that's hostile to you and your core identity.
Once those feelings are there, it's good to recognize them, and allow the experience you're going through.
If those feelings dissipate, there might be a way forward to talk about your experience as man, if and how you've noticed sexual desires around cuddling, and any experiences that have helped you deal with those feelings and desires in a healthy way.
Sadly, there are lots of men who can’t compartmentalize their feelings enough to keep enjoyable physical touch separate from sexual enjoyment. Some of them are jerks and have no intention of doing so. Others just fail to control themselves suitably and keep making micro-adjustments in that direction until there is negative feedback. I think most men would be lying if they said this wasn’t their natural impulse that must be consciously opposed.
I think it’s best to be absolutely clear both in your profile and in person that this is not going to happen with you. You are going to get less traffic but that’s a good thing because you are filtering out people you don’t want.
On the other hand, you can overdo this and drive away good clients. That’s more of an issue of tone. But clear but succinct about it. No need to elaborate or come off as if you are expressing frustration. It need be no longer than one sentence. Two at most. Much more than this can sometimes paint the picture that you are upright, unprofessional and will not be relaxing to be with.
Your profile is fine. Could be a little more succinct. Your venting here is fine too. But if I see something that feels like venting and expressing of negative emotions on a profile it makes it less likely that I’ll write.
The vast majority of your profile should be positive tone. If someone’s profile seems like a rule book or legal document, it makes me feel like it won’t be a relaxing experience which is the primary thing I am looking for. In the process of rolling around, it often happens that an elbow inadvertently bumps a boob or a butt cheek and I wouldn’t want to be with someone for whom that sets off a five alarm fire. I doubt there are many people like that but still some profiles give me that feeling and I generally refrain from writing those people. It also gives me the impression that they might not even like cuddling and just do it for the money and if they had their way, we wouldn’t touch at all.
Just my perspective from the male, non-pro side. I don’t pretend to speak for women or pros so that obviously listen to their opinions as well. And of course, they are really just my own opinions. Can’t truly speak for all men either. Just that, it’s my experience that we really aren’t all that different.
Another tip. Long profiles in general are not a good idea. Too long and no one will ever read them (says the guy making a super long post). We’re just looking for a relaxing experience. You’re looking for respect for boundaries. It shouldn’t be too hard to write a short profile to get both impressions across. I’d guess that most clients (men at least) have 90% of the decision to write to someone made just after looking at the picture. So have good pictures. Almost whatever you write will only filter out some of them from writing. So think of it as a filter and be sure you are just filtering out the ones you don’t want. Even the best written profiles just tell me that the person is good at writing profiles. It never convinces me that they will be a good cuddler. Karma is a bit different.
@dave31415
I relate to your comment about sexual impulses being an instinct that needs to be consciously opposed.
And I want men to feel comfortable to be open about that reality, and ask for help when they need it.
I'm still a beginner cuddle-wise, but I make sure I am completely resolved to take this for what it is, and not the more that those instincts wish for or pull us towards, before even reaching out.
Sometimes for me, that means not reaching out to someone that I'm overly physically attracted to.
This reminds me somewhat of creationism and evolution. A guy being upset for being rejected is not even close. Doesn't need to be nearly as validated as assault Or being treated like an object. Sure people should say whats on their mind but they don't. Both deserve equal time.
Edit to say that was supposed to say both DON'T deserve equal time. NOT ALL IDEAS AND THOUGHTS ARE EQUAL
From the pro side, this work is absolutely not for everyone. I feel a professional cuddler should have solid boundaries and confidence, but to have those abilities without needing to attack or shame or invalidate anyone else. A professional cuddler shouldn't be filled with bitterness and anger that can harm their clients. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having these feelings or struggles, but it can be indicative that maybe this work isn't the best idea for you, since the attention we can receive can further those feelings (which harms you), in addition to the fact that those feelings can harm those that come to us for safety. This is, of course, only my opinion, but wanted to add to this conversation that my expectations of professionals stands much higher than for enthusiasts, since the feelings are absolutely valid AND this work is both a responsibility and absolutely not for everyone. Some things just aren't a good mix.
No personal attacks. - Babichev
@BigSmiles I am not feeling much discomfort, and I'm not afraid that my world will slip further into one that's hostile to me and my core identity. What I am afraid of is that discussions on this forum will slip even further into emotional arguments, and become less and less based on rational thought.
Also if you are afraid to cuddle with someone that you're physically attracted to, perhaps it means that you need to develop more control over your emotions.
@hugo_stieglitz neither creationism, Holocaust denial. global warming denial, horoscope belief, vaccine denial, election denial, the belief in a flat earth,or any of the dozens of other beliefs for which there is no evidence at all, most certainly do not deserve equal time as their opposite beliefs that are substantiated by a plethora of evidence.
@ubergigglefritz Well said.
@Mama55mia I think @SnugggleBunny can post whatever type of pics she wants as long as it doesn't violate site rules.
She's said herself she's mainly had positive experiences and her photos are how she wants to represent herself - and they're not overtly sexual.
It borders on victim blaming when you're starting to police other pples outfits.
There are a couple of f professionals here who pretend they cuddle There is a woman here who offers a sexual menu and she even created a tik tok account about cuddling, there is another one who is offering sex and she has been reported a couple times with evidence and she is still here. There are very serious men here who only want t cuddle I don't want t sound discriminatory about some people here smoking weed but when some pros smoke weed and then cuddle they don't even remember what they are doing one f the professionals who offers sex smokes weed just before having a session