Lots of folks make a lot of suggestions about what the site should and should not require. If new members would actually read the Terms of Service that could go a long way towards eliminating some of the more common problems. However, people don’t read them and even those who do don’t necessarily abide by them. Let’s face it, there are folks who come onto this site who have no intention of abiding by the rules. Others are opportunists who will abide by them but if they perceive any possibility of “more” than just platonic cuddling will certainly take that opportunity.
For those who fall into that latter category: Please be aware that those “innocent” questions you ask that are thinly disguised attempt to push boundaries are very annoying and put us on the defensive. We’re on to you, we see what you’re doing. Just don’t. And don’t ask us to explain why we have the boundaries that we do, argue with them, or expect us to justify them. Just accept them. Everyone gets to decide how they do and do not want to interact and this is especially important in an intimate situation like cuddling. If you do willingly accept our boundaries you will earn our trust.
Whew, test anxiety is real, but I got 100. 😂
@MxSmith this took a lot of time and thought. Thanks for putting it together. Very nice.
Overall I think this is great. I do have some comments though. I’ll break them up into a few posts. First, I’m a little fuzzy about the differences between consent and body autonomy. The concept of consent has been pushed for a long time (by various groups/people) and I think it’s become familiar to most people. Of course it’s usually discussed in the context of sex. But isn’t it a general enough idea or do we need body autonomy?
I think what I associate with the term is the concept of body autonomy in the case of abortion. And that’s a whole different can of worms.
But it brings me to another point. Most of this will be uncontroversial. But there are a few places where controversial political views seem to seep in. I would try to remove those.
The sunburn skin example is one of those. As long as you had a choice to be touched in return for money, your consent or bodily autonomy hasn’t been violated according to the definition. That doesn’t mean it’s not weird or annoying to get such an offer, but if you end up accepting the offer then you have actually have decided that it benefits you.
There is way of looking at things from a leftist point of view that adults of sound mind can still have their consent violated if they have no other better option. They will often use the word exploitation or terms like predatory lending etc. I don’t think we need to debate this here but it’s certainly not a broadly shared point of view. Many people, perhaps even a majority would argue that such things aren’t really a thing. Or rather that exploiting our economic situation is just business as usual for everything we do in life.
I don’t think you can call an offer for something of value to be a bribe. A bribe is restricted to money received for committing a corrupt act for the group that you represent.
So I’d try to round it out a little and back off from the more controversial points of view. You don’t want people who reject those particular things to reject the whole concept.
The one I got “wrong” was the one about showing up early. I answered that it is OK to send a message asking to start early. The other option of just waiting is fine but I think this answer is equally fine.
The reason would be that you might be wasting some of your time just hanging out doing nothing when the cuddler might also be doing the same thing. In that case, starting early is a win-win.
Other times they may not be ready and may not want to start early but I don’t think it’s wrong to ask as long as you do so politely and don’t act like you are entitled to it. I actually did that the other day. I wasn’t super early but maybe 15 minutes. I still had to wait about 10.
Other more technical matters. I think the whole thing would be easier if there were no free text questions. And shorter is always better when it comes to surveys or quizzes as long as nothing crucial is being left out.
When it comes to Terms of Service, I can safely say that I have never read a single one in my life. I don’t think anyone else does either, at least until they get banned and are parsing it in order to appeal.
I don’t know what the sign up process is like since I signed up long ago but it might not hurt to have a very short summarized version pop up and require them to agree. But it has to be very short or they won’t read it.
Another opinion I have about such things is that because no one actually reads such things, you should be a somewhat lenient for first offenders for SOME of the things. When such violations occur, you then have more of a teachable moment to actually get them to read and understand the rules. And I don’t mean the most serious violations but some of them. Many of the things in TOS are just things that any rational adult should assume anyway. Like, I have not idea if the TOS explicitly state that you can’t sell drugs but any rational person is going to know they will get banned for such things on basically any website.
I agree @dave31415. If you really, really, really care about newcomers reading the rules of the site, you will have a button that will not let you proceed to becoming a full-fledged user until you have read the TOS. Easy you say? Just scroll down and hit accept. But if you really want to snag everyone you still can’t proceedbecause you should have a part called “The Rules and Boundaries of the Site” and you have to at least click on that link before the Accept the TOS will unlock.
In addition, the bar that has the home, mail, and messaging icons should have a Ten Commandments tablet icon and when clicked gives you the rules of the site and you can even update them. Stop burying what everyone is pleading ignorance over and move the excuse of ignorance over to the stupid side. The first thing everyone does at a site is press icon buttons to see what they do!
@FunCartel Yeah. You make people agree to read the TOS but you can’t really watch their eyeballs to ensure they actually did.
What you can do if you want, which brings us back to the main line of the this thread, is give them a quiz. Then they have to learn the material in order to join. Similar to a lot of the online employee training stuff that we run into.
@dave31415 The quiz is subjective in so many ways. What I was referring to is having a link in the TOS that is a Bill of Rules and until you read the rules you can’t participate on the site. I was also saying that there should be an icon that connects only to the rules so they can’t say they aren’t right in front of them.
The quiz??? Nope. It is too what if and you can never cover all the what ifs. That is why you have a general list of rules. Keep it simple, time-friendly, but direct.
Right but you still can’t really verify if anyone has read anything. Even if you make them click that they have. Unless I’m signing up for an auto loan or something, I’m pretty much going to assume my common sense is good enough to figure out what is any TOS that I’m signing.
If I’m not mistaken, there is a pop-up that comes up when you are about to write to a pro you haven’t written to before. And I think it says something about “Platonic, yada, yada” which is basically the Golden Rule of the site. That’s actually a good idea; breaking up the presentation of the rules and showing them at the appropriate time. I wouldn’t be surprised for example if when you upload pictures, it pops something up to tell you “no nudity etc”. If not, it should. I like that approach. You still need TOS for legal reasons and for reference but this way is about presenting the material when it’s most relevant which will makes it more likely to be read.
No, you can’t verify anything but if the rules are right in front of you in the form of an icon there is less of an excuse that you never saw it. And having the link in front of them does verify that they were given the opportunity to read over the rules. There is nothing wrong in presenting the rules in multiple locations. There is a reminder that pops up every now and then when you book a pro. Two more places wouldn’t hurt. Who visited you appears in multiple places, so the rules that actually PROTECT individuals should have equal visibility. Quizzes are divisive and could lead to decreased enrollment on the site.
@MxSmith I commend you on this quiz. My earlier comment didn't reflect that. It's informative and helpful.
Okay I'm ready to respond to everybody and let you know about updates. So I changed the sunburnt forehead question a bit as @sunnysideup suggested because the issue of paying someone to change their mind is still.
@Shake49 & @Charlie_Bear I changed the quiz so that the questions with an "Other" selection are not graded, and the other questions are worth more so it's still out of 100, but you won't lose points for "missing" those questions. I still want to keep the "other" option open to see what people come up with.
@simsaddict I'm glad you brought up the tooth extraction. I did leave out the consent form intentionally, but I see what you mean. One could assume there was a consent form. Feel free to DM me on anything else. I wanted to put a question on here about medical consent because it's not something that many of us really think about when we go to our medical professionals. We assume they know what's best. I'm convinced nobody really reads those consent forms and understands what's going to be happening to their bodies. We just understand that we can't sue them after this form is signed. I think a lot of the medical procedures are really badly represented even when they do explain to you what is happening. "You are going to feel a pinch", "you are going to feel some pressure". (I'd like to pinch them back so we can talk about that pinch). As a woman I've had some very, VERY bad medical care around women's health issues and used to have full blown trauma responses whenever I had to go in. It wasn't until I had a professional who understood medical trauma really explain to me what I could ask for and how I could stop a procedure, that I felt empowered to take control of my own medical experiences. There's a reason people feel terrified of dentists, doctors, hospitals. There's some deep trauma that happens to our bodies here and some very shitty gaslighting too. Although we do sign a thing, as far as trauma goes, I'm not convinced our brains really remember it that way. I think many of us remember the experience as "I was at the doctor's office, and this terrible thing happened and I didn't feel like I could do anything about it". Is it really informed consent if you don't understand what's going to happen (even if you sign the form)? I leave this thought exercise up to all of you.
@Babichev Thanks for the compliment. That means a lot to me I updated the #7 to be "gently but firmly", I agree.
Number 11 I'm keeping the answer as is for a best practice model. I'd rather people respect the time we all scheduled, but I also want to say I am on the same page, and I give passes to several of my clients who have to take the bus or are coming from Boston at rush hour. I'm not personally a jerk about time, but I think it's important that we all try to be intentional about each other's time. I don't like it when people show up an hour early and make it my problem.
Number 18, you are correct, I agree. I updated the question to include "Do not ask".
Number 21 I also agree, I modified the answer to say "As soon as it's over and you have a chance" and left the answer as is to reflect that sometimes things happen too fast and you can't stop them in the moment.
@UCpaaHVg6u0 & @achetocuddle I agree that imposing a quiz on people might be overkill. I might just use it if I'm getting super ambiguous vibes from someone and don't actually know if they get it or not.
@dave31415 I'll respond to your messages a little later, there's a lot to unpack.
@MxSmith I should mention that I did not take the test but could tell from the sample question that I would not make 100. I do think the test would weed out a lot of bad people, but I'm glad it's not a requirement. I'm impressed by the huge amount of work you did. I enjoy your posts.
@achetocuddle thank you for always being so supportive and positive. I really enjoy every time you contribute to the conversations. The quiz is anonymous and none of the written answers are graded so if you feel like taking it just to think about the concepts, great. If not, no worries. Nobody is judging anybody. It's just a thought exercise.
@MxSmith The style, thoughtfulness, and depth of your posts are much appreciated. I'm glad and I don't mind admitting, a little relieved, to know someone is "getting" me. Thanks.
My request to require the quiz is just a knee jerk reaction to all the threads of people having their boundaries violated - I don’t want someone excluded due to some philosophical dilemma.
Some days though, I’d like to see those extreme actions take. More of a fantasy than anything or just a cathartic thought process.
@sunnysideup Sometimes a knee is what people who violate boundaries deserve. I wouldn't mind if the site decided to require more, as long as a few people could still figure out that I am OK
Awesome work @MxSmith - the quiz itself is great and you are just a diamond 💎
@MxSmith thank you for putting together this quiz! I felt a lot more comfortable when you explained how the freeform answers won't be scored - otherwise I could only imagine my typed phrase a bit different from the "golden" one, resulting in a docked score! I thought the questions were well thought out and in all of the answer choices there was only one clearly correct answer - the sign of a well made quiz.
Finally coming back to respond to more comments. Sorry for the delay, I am always busy Thursday & Friday.
I really wanted to take some real time to respond to @dave31415 . Regarding the terms I used in this quiz, "consent" vs. "bodily autonomy" I realize the term bodily autonomy is a hot topic right now due to politics around abortion; however, the term bodily autonomy is very broad and I think I reflected that in my first question which asks about what is a violation of bodily autonomy and then I listed 4 different examples, none of which are about abortion at all. The reason I started off the quiz with bodily autonomy and not consent is because in order to understand WHY we need consent we have to understand that each person has a right to decide what they do with our own bodies. In order to understand consent, you have to understand bodily autonomy, and in order to cuddle you have to understand both.
Re: the sunburn question. I changed it to incorporate a threat instead of a bribe. I understand your point. I'm still planning on making a post specifically about consent and enthusiastic consent. The whole point of the quiz was to understand that we are all individuals who have boundaries that we all need to communicate and respect each other around. Offering me money to do something I've already expressed I do not want to do, falls somewhere between harassment and depending on the context a non-consensual act. I'd agree that the context most certainly matters to evaluate that one (ex: if I felt in danger, if the person was my boss, there's some kind of power dynamic mixed in there). To avoid further confusion I changed that question.
About respecting someone else's time. I think if you ask the cuddle community about their experiences around people respecting their time, you'll find a wide variety of very frustrated answers (both pro and enthusiast). My question around time is based on what I think are best practices. Personally, I have my cuddle space ready early and I leave extra time after a session in case someone wants to stay longer and I mentally prepare myself for either outcome. Many of the people I cuddle with are traveling from Boston and get stuck in some wicked traffic, some have to take the bus which in Rhode Island is not exactly a sure thing. I allow some leeway; however, there are times when I feel extremely frustrated when I realize that someone is not taking my time seriously. Imagine that you are hosting a dinner party and a guest arrives an hour early. Can you empathize with that frustration? What were you doing before their arrival? probably cleaning, fixing food, getting your house in order, finishing some work. How does it feel when they arrive early? kinda stressful? Do you wish they had arrived at the time you had agreed on so your house was ready? Would you ask your guests to wait in their hot car in your driveway until you were done vacuuming?
You can add an extra layer of discomfort when you are talking about someone's job. imagine your boss arrives at your house and asks you to start work an hour early with no notice. Just, "hey, I'm in the driveway!" Do you let them sit an hour in their hot car or scramble? What if you get to your job on time, you are sitting in your office for one whole hour before your boss assigns you your new assignment. Are you expecting to be paid for the hour you were sitting in your office?
Being intentional and careful around someone else's time, space, and money are all ways to show respect. When you aren't careful around these things, it can feel disrespectful.
@dave31415 regarding the format of the quiz. I didn't create this quiz to collect data, I wanted it to be a learning opportunity. I wanted people to really think about why it's important to respect another person's boundaries, whether it be our bodies, our time, our space, whatever. I think the best way for that is writing out an answer. Note, the written answers are not graded.
One of the most frustrating issues that comes up while cudding is occasionally I'll meet with a cuddler who doesn't seem to think of me as a person who has a right to make decisions about my own body while cuddling. Or doesn't find my boundaries to be worthy of respect. Or finds their needs to be more important than my sense of safety and wellbeing. It's extremely difficult to screen out these people as they seem to answer all the questions correctly, but I also don't do a deep dive into their beliefs around bodily autonomy and whether they think of me as a person at all. I've struggled for a long time to try and figure out why so many people don't seem to respect my bodily autonomy. I always come back to these two options. 1. They don't understand. 2. They don't care.
I've decided I'm going to put all my hope in #2 and do my best to educate and put all my street smarts into #1 and keep myself safe.
I got a hundred on the quiz. A lot of it seems to be common (uncommon) sense these days. A couple we a bit ambiguous and we're unable to be black and white but a good quiz regardless
@pmalloy I agree, the quiz is common sense. I would add that I could also see where someone with sociopathic tendencies and half a brain could answer the way the quiz rewards “correct” answers, much in the same vein that sociopaths can pass a lie detector test with flying colors despite being guilty as hell. It’s what they do.
So the question is, would it really screen out the bad people?
@MxSmith this is awesome and I love the engagement and discussion your contribution is bringing. I see the quiz as a great tool for awareness and promoting the best experiences for everyone.
@FunCartel no I don't think it would screen very many actual sociopaths out. In fact I'm probably not going to use it as a screening tool very often as I think it would actually screen out a lot of potentially good people who hate tests or feel a lot of pressure from this kind of screening. Sometimes I have a screening session where the person really doesn't say very much at all and in those cases it's hard to figure out what the person knows or understands. I think it could be helpful for those people to think about these concepts.
As for the sociopaths, that's where the street smarts have to come in unfortunately. I don't have a good answer. I've done lots of research on body language and different things to look for, but I still am not going to pretend that I could identify one from one video screening session.
Thank you @Nature_Lover_ @CuddlesByDeep and @CuddlesByGracie you are all always so supportive of my weird brain children.
@MxSmith I wasn’t referring to you using it. I was referring to someone suggesting the site use it as a requirement to become a member on the site. I think predators, criminals and ne’er do wells know what the right answers are, but choose to not abide by those answers in practice. Not just on this site, but life in general. A quiz can never weed them out because they are used to getting around barriers of propriety.
It won’t filter out the people looking intentionally break rules, unless taking a quiz is too much effort for them. But there do seem to be some people that are genuinely confused as to what this site is for.
@FunCartel Oh I agree with you on that. I wouldn't mind something like this being used on people who get a warning though. Like say someone meets up with someone and asks them if they will cuddle in underwear, and ends up getting a warning from one of the mods as a result. I wouldn't mind if they had to then write an essay on bodily autonomy, consent, and how it hurts people when you sexually harass them before they were allowed back into the community. It wouldn't help for the true predators, but for the reckless opportunists, I think as @sunnysideup suggested, it might be too much effort and they might choose to just go away rather than do the work.