@pmvines you’d be right & you’d be wrong. Might I draw your attention to when I mentioned the sextortion issues ? The degrading & demoralizing over time ? How about the female teachers arrested ? Multiple. Every year. Women do assault men. Women do assault men. It happens. What they also do? False accusations that destroy men’s lives. Robbery setups & extortion schemes. It happens.
If the vehemence is to unequivocally declare and prove that all men are vile & repugnant, then why not delete and ban all men from the site ?
We definitely set our own standard of treatment. How we treat others is essentially telling them the treatment we deem acceptable to receive. We also create our reaction through simple cause and effect. If we treat someone in a negative unempathetic manner this will trigger in them anxiety which is our basic emotional instinct of fight or flight.
@teddybear888 can we just agree that none of it is ok? It seems like you're fixating on drawing comparisons, tit for tat kind of thing. Can we not simply agree that none of it is ok , and that the experience of one doesn't cancel the experience of another?
We should also understand we can't control the reactions of others. We are only in control how we choose to react to others and how we process our emotions and information received. It is beneficial to ask ourselves why someone is behaving the way they are. In a lot of circumstances how people treat us isn't a personal reflection of ourselves but more so what that person is going through in their own lives. Hence the meaning behind don't take it personal. It is easier said than done. Developing your metacognition is the key and can immensely help with socialization.
I understand that besides the predators, they are people who support them knowingly or not so. However they are still good people on either side who aren't predators nor support such stuff. I can't support lumping them in with people who are toxic or who support such toxicity.
I've been through a whole lot myself and continue to. That doesn't make me lash out on men or women indiscriminately as a result. Like I said, if it's hurtful for men to be bashing women indiscriminately, I can't support women doing it to men. Doing so to me does more harm than good and adds to dividing people who could have had a good, supportive connection. Thereby further weakening us and making it so that some people live in fear so much that they give up or can't seem to trust others. While of course we must do our due diligence to stay safe, I say a life lived in so much fear that it makes unable to form connections that could be so valuable to us is really no life. Nor is speaking in a manner that seems to constantly attack a given group indiscriminately. If it's hurtful one way, it's hurtful the other way and I can't support that.
In terms of non-violent but pushy, sexually entitled expectations and ignoring boundaries on this site and online dating, many men choose not to use self control over basic sexual needs that seem to obliterate rational thinking. Sorry for the run-on sentence! I’m only trying to take this down to a simple fact. Do I have it wrong?
Sorry, I initially tagged the wrong teddybear. :P
@teddybear888 "How do you think it makes men feel when we are reduced to what the size of our wallets are in order to imaginarily ever so briefly have someone show us affection ?
Regarded for our hearts, our minds, our souls, our true & total substance. That’s something both sexes crave genuinely. Rightfully so."
I support both men and women having something going for them before they get into a relationship. They need to have a skill that can help them take care of themselves and each other. I also think it's generally more beneficial for men to take more on the 'provider' role and women take more on running the home. Also they both need to do their due diligence in taking the time to choose wisely who they get involved with for better results and know when to let go.
Now if either of them falls on hard times after the fact, then I'd encourage them working through it together. If one is trying to get back up and the other just dips out at the moment adversity comes to the door, then I'd think such person is a gold digger that needs to get lost from that person's life anyway. Also odds are that the gold digger gives signs early on before the adversity hit that need to be noticed and acted on accordingly.
If said person is unable to get back up for a substantial time say due to a long term illness wrecking hovac on his (or her) life and his partner chooses to get out, then that to me is more of a grey area. Unfortunately not everyone has what it takes to be there for someone who is down that bad and if said person is unable to genuinely love and care about (his) or her partner then he's better of being left. So he may find someone who could love and care about him where he's at.
Also on the flip side of this to me is that men tend to place more weight on a woman's looks while women more on his finances. I think that's just how life is. At the end of the day even though it sucks, it is just how it is and if men aren't (which generally* I don't think they should be) criticized for wanting women with certain looks, women shouldn't get heat for wanting men with certain wallet size. Does it suck? Of course. Is it in its own way happening on both sides? Definitely.
Men generally want women with certain looks, who are fertile and possess certain qualities. Similarly women want what they want. I say don't hate the 'player', hate the 'game'. I lost count of how many times I've spoken with men who the moment they video call with me, they fall off the face of the earth be it instantly or after we speak a bit. Be it because of my disability, how I look, whatever. I recognize they are not a good match for me either and I keep it moving.
I also lost count of how many men who don't have a photo of themselves either and who basically the first thing they say to me is that they want to see a picture of me. Some send theirs unsolicited and ask for mine. Or they just ask for mine. Indicating to me that they place more importantance on looks and seeing what I look like than getting acquainted with what I'm like.
So I don't expect anyone including men to get over their preferences for me or another, cause guess what? I also got preferences of my own, so do you and everyone else. All thanks to this wonderful thing we call life and individuality. Are some people's "preferences" rather toxic? Yeah I'd say so, such as those who are gold diggers, though I think they've a match made in hell for them called those who want to get with hotties and really only hotties even to the extent that they will fluant their finances for a chance to get with a hottie. Thinking they can turn said hotties who they had to essentially pay to be with them into a loving, faithful partner. I don't excuse the action of either of them, I just see it for what it is. I also understand there are more cases that people genuinely fall victim, than basically puttint themselves in such position knowingly and to that it's unfortunate. I think more knowledge and people taking the time to apply it can help to eliminate that.
@carrieanne an you describe your use of the word many?
“ constituting or forming a large number; numerous” not difficult to understand either in or out of context that this is a fair usage of the word.
So while defining it, for clarity, can use use tangible information. Since we are talking in generalizations large or numerous is something that’s up to me to define. There has to be a reference point in order for mutual understanding.
@BashfulLoner What would be a large number for you?
How much hair would a woodchuck split if a woodchuck could split hair
You're engaging in spurious semantics, rather than addressing a real issue. You're welcome to suggest why you don't think "many" is accurate, everyone else who doesn't have an issue with it is then welcome to think that you are minimising the amount (or impact) of the behaviour @carrieanne describes for whatever reason.
@BashfulLoner I would appreciate your using common sense here. I was being careful to not accuse all men because it isn’t all men. But I will be brutally honest with you. I have a lot of experience in dating, friendships, marriage and now cuddling. Look at my age if you’re still having trouble understanding. If you are straight, how many dates with men have you been on? How many men have you cuddled with alone? Exactly. I most likely know way more about the behavior of men in those ‘alone’ settings than straight men. I have literally lived this for 55 years. Every. Single. Man. In an alone dating and cuddling situation has probably at some point had sex on his mind Forgive me if I’ve forgotten HS biology class but doesn’t science show it’s the way men are programmed and in their dna? Women are programmed also but mostly express it differently and very sensitive about protecting their bodies and not being used. (Ok I’m ready to be corrected on this, I’m not a scientist) Can any man claim to NEVER ONCE think of sex for days weeks months when thinking of women? 🤔 Why is it always the most talked about subject on this site 🤔 For you to question my experience with this, and any other woman’s is ludicrous. Now, It is 💯 up to me to manage my comfort level, behavior safety and choices. Stop doubting what women are telling you over and over. And because of my experience after 55 years, I’m pretty good at dealing with it.
I am not considering the hypothetical situations you are posting because based on the OP and i attempted to clarify, i am talking about language.
Im not trying to create commentary about men vs. women or gender roles or sexual inappropriateness. I talking about how language affects these conversations.
I am sure im on record on CC about my disdain of men. I am a proud good man and i do. Not believe that males are positive influences on the universe. Male humans being more detrimental than female humans. I personally have little use for them.
I do however recognize how the language being shared is causing the conversation to further diverge. I could be wrong, im just a regular guy trying to be good, hoping to be great giving some perspective, some input.
I do not mean to proclaim i have the answer. I just want to offer a thought i believe could be beneficial to human kind. I have strong opinions but i don’t share them, i just attempt to offer conversation points i think could be beneficial.
I should stop, im sorry. I feel my attempts are not helpful.
Happy Mew Year! Enjoy
at one time I had the misfortune to believe that being nice could get you killed. Now it is only wise to have lengthy conversations and public/chaperoned early meetings.
@teddybear888 Yes sometimes men get raped too...but its nothing compared to what women face.
I get that generalizing can rub people the wrong way. Using words like "never" and "always" simply isn't accurate and puts people on the defensive. It's not a great way to express an issue.
The problem is that focusing on the criticism/correction of generalizing language, in particular on these issues of misogyny, race, and other forms of violence and oppression, is that it then shifts the conversation away from the issue onto the defensive reaction. That shift in conversation, whether intentionally or unintentionally, further serves to minimize the issue, gaslights speakers about their experiences and puts them in a position of having to wordsmith so they don't get attacked. It's generally termed a "bad faith argument", because there is no intention of actually hearing and understanding the issue being presented.
In this thread, one person makes a statement boundary pushing and gets asked to define a single word: "many". That's simply impossible... how many is too many? How many is an acceptable amount? It completely misses the point of how the effect of even just one person doing creepy things to a lot of people is a problem. How long should she spend on crafting a sentence to find a term that doesn't come under quantifiable attack so that we can talk about the problem of boundary pushing?
@BashfulLoner (and anyone else) if you want to understand a bit more about why your attempts to focus on language are not actually helpful, this link says it better than I can: https://inbreakthrough.org/six-reasons-notallmen-fails/ .
Here's another one, though it's a little more scathing in its delivery, so you may want to read it when you're not feeling too tender: https://time.com/79357/not-all-men-a-brief-history-of-every-dudes-favorite-argument/
Why is it so impossible for people to disagree with someone and just let it be instead of arguing and invalidating their experience? I read these message boards that used to be helpful and thought provoking and now it’s just people bickering about everything you see on social media. Where did the “comfort” this site use to provide go and how/why is it acceptable that it’s gone for those of us who’ve always used it for its intended purpose FOR YEARS??
I honestly appreciate those who understood my use of the word ’many’. I believe it wasn’t intentional but I truly felt attacked all over again when it was questioned and it caused a sleepless night. It made me relive actually my adult lifetime of feeling used, unappreciated and seen as only a body in my attempt to have a meaningful relationship. I’m so resentful of men not being interested in me for who I am inside. Experience has shown that anyone interested in me only sees the outside. Not my heart, my intelligence, my artistic talent. My walls are covered with my paintings and not one person has ever asked me about them. Being an artist is who I am so that hurts more than anyone can understand. In terms of this site and being Professionals, cuddling is physical. We understand men are visual. If we don’t have profile photos showing what we look like, no one will be that interested in wanting to cuddle with us. Cuddling has been a very healing journey for me. I’ve met amazing, interesting caring people. Even if sex was on their minds initially, we still had meaningful, honest conversations and wonderful cuddles. I only want to help and care and give affection and it’s an intense need. No person should be questioned about their own real life experiences. My New Year’s resolution is to spend less time on this forum because it is so often hurtful and more time being productive! New Years Blessings and Hugs to all of you 🥰🤗