Tolerating Misandry?

TD1964RGKTD1964RGK
in General

Just wondering if this discussion board is inadvertently tolerating bias against men? I’ve seen recent posts regarding men lying about their age, questioning whether men read profiles before responding and complaining about men “rubbing all over” during cuddles. I can say that I have personally experienced women exhibiting all of these same behaviors. 🙂 Wouldn’t it be more in keeping with the open, caring environment I think we are all trying to enjoy here if we opened topics about people’s behaviors without limiting it to one gender or the other? For me, that would feel more like a discussion and less like an attack. But maybe that’s just me. 🙂 Anyway, that would be my preference, and I’m genuinely interested to hear what others think. Apologies in advance if this post inadvertently offended anyone. I assure you that was not my intent. Big hug.

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Comments

  • jplemmonjplemmon

    Yes!

  • Lisa123Lisa123

    @TD1964RGK I have had men tell me they have experienced it from women & I get what you're saying, however, I think the people writing are doing so from their own experience(s). I haven't had a cuddle with a female, so all of my experience has been with men and and it may be second nature to word it that way when I post. I don't think anyone is trying to say women are not capable of the same wrongdoings.

  • Sheena123Sheena123

    I think it’s also that these issues bug women more than it bugs men, or at least bugs them enough to make posts about it. Most men I’ve talked with that said a woman was grinding against him in bed loved it or said “I didn’t really consent to it but it’s ok” and they don’t take up issue with something like that as much as women. So of course more women will be creating posts discussing their negative experiences with these men that break their boundaries.

  • MelancholyMelancholy

    If a woman has issues with men and wants to post about it I don't see why that's a problem. She doesn't have to also talk about the other way around because she may have no knowledge of that and it's not her concern anyway.
    Instead why don't you post your own thread about whatever you want discussed as well.

  • [Deleted User]MaverickLegend (deleted user)

    @TD1964RGK it’s a valid point that you bring up however, it will never be a popular one, and therefore will always be shut down.

  • CuddleWhoCuddleWho

    While I do sometimes see some bias against men by some forum participants, I don't think the examples you give really represent bias.

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup
    edited February 2023

    I think that part of it is that men feel less threatened by bad behavior from women - on average a man is going to be bigger and stronger than a woman, so when there’s threatening behavior done by either gender on the other, I’m guessing on average it’s scarier for women. So I understand if the forum leans more in that way. And this is not to say that sexual assault on men by women is any more okay. Also, I think the statistics say that men commit SA on women more than the other way around?

    But I agree with the other ones, the stuff about age or not reading profiles thing, bith genders seem to do it a lot so I wish the topic wasn’t gendered when brought up.l and would feel a bit less hostile.

  • _marC_marC

    Yes it does paint a picture of gloom and doom towards men, but that doesn't mean all women feel that way. I think it helps when we allow sharing their experiences with us good or bad

  • SunsetSnugglesSunsetSnuggles

    @TD1964RGK 100%. Thank you for speaking up. I don't think most people post these things maliciously, but we could all be more mindful of generalizations/gender accusations. However, some of it is malicious and I wish more was done about that kind of sexism.

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited February 2023

    @Lisa123 and @CuddleWho nailed it. I have experienced the same thing you described but I also understand that if a woman is venting about her experience on a thread she started the last thing that helps the situation is a guy saying “women do it too”. Yes they do but that wasn’t the topic was it? Likewise, when guy starts a thread about his experience I would hope women wouldn’t be saying guys do it too. But your point is sound and not problematic unless it is approached inappropriately.

  • [Deleted User]justwanthugs (deleted user)

    This is a common occurrence here. Part of the issue is that there are more males on the site, so there is a larger population that doesn’t follow the rules. But I agree, it tends to be one-sided from issues being posted. On the flip side, all the ladies I’ve personally met on here have been fantastic.

  • ReltvlyCanshesReltvlyCanshes

    @TD1964RGK thank you, and thank you for that word, i never read misandry before.

    Speaking for myself, i think it ruins the value of your point when you assign the behavior of the small sample size of people you know to half the population. It’s always inaccurate and most times offensive. When men do it it’s dumb and when women do it’s dumb. You can’t even say all men have penises and be close to accurate.

    Also as a so called man, who attempts to be sensitive to the way i treat, speak to and think of women it bothers me. It bothers me to be lumped in to a group of people i so desperately attempt not to behave like.

    I believe myself to be a man, raised by a woman and a man that don’t display any of the nonsense being attributed to men and women in these posts. Also none of the behaviors you speak on are gender specific, but making them specific to a gender is an attempt to separate yourself from the behavior just because of you genitals. Genitals don’t cause behavior nor gender or many other things. So just stop please.

    I can tell you of an experience I’ve had with a lady or even all the ladies and girls I’ve known. That number is small in comparison to the audience of this thread, and definitely to the world.

    Anyway i shouldn’t speak for anyone but myself and i definitely can’t attribute bad behavior of any kind to a race, gender or size of a person. But stupid people are stupid people, liars are liars, asholes are awholes and they come in every shape size and color from all parts of the world. So please stop.

    I lied about my age last night when i told a kid i was 50, I’m not, sometimes it’s easier. Sometimes i don’t read entire profiles, because sometimes i don’t care what it says. I drink water most the time, and enjoy a coffee in the morning sometimes, also a cocktail at night. I stretch and I’m going to hug my mother today, but that’s just me.

  • [Deleted User]WriterGF (deleted user)

    Some men may not read profiles, some women may not. But the very strong impression here is a lot more male enthusiasts are doing initial messages to females than the other way around, so men not reading a profile before writing is simply a more visible issue.

  • MonkeyNeedsAHugMonkeyNeedsAHug

    They’re only calling out the short guys. #NoTallMen

  • OnTheJourneyOnTheJourney
    edited February 2023

    I do stop reading the forums here sometimes because I don't always want to feel like I have to announce myself as not being a creepy, rapist-type guy before offering an opinion.⭐ But that is where the responsibility lies, within each of us to take a step back and relax and not feel assaulted or defensive because someone didn't say something in a more meaningful way or chose their words poorly.

    The second lesson to take away for everyone, and I work on this myself quite often, is the "all-or-nothing" thinking. When you see worlds like all, always, never, should, shouldn't, etc. in your own speech or by someone else it's a good reminder to take a moment and realize that everything is in flux and categorizing something in those terms is factually incorrect and could be harmful to your emotional state or someone else's. Even saying someone is, "always happy." sort of has a ring of a backhanded compliment to it sometimes. Or at least elicits a fallacy that some humans are indeed always happy and since you're not you must be humaning wrong.

    ⭐ I spent about 3 minutes going back and forth whether or not I should put "not" in all caps or bold here to make it even more clear. It feels awful being a guy and having to deal with that sense of things, but I get it. The bad actors who create that fear in others do it in such a harmful way that it will always evoke trauma and not something able to be shrugged off.

  • Cinephile77Cinephile77
    edited February 2023

    I get the intent behind the question. But it also conveys an air of “whataboutism”. We don’t exist in a world with completely binary conditions. It would be ideal if there was a level playing field for everyone and everything, but that’s not the case.

    Historically speaking, misogyny has been a much more powerful and destructive force than misandry. It’s tragic. But it’s also true. Men should take stock of that in their everyday lives. Not just here. Because what might come across as misandry is more than likely a response to the history of misogyny and violence that men have perpetuated against women. Why shouldn’t women stand up for themselves? I think it’s an important question.

  • Sheena123Sheena123

    @Cinephile77 not gonna lie, I was hoping someone would say this and in case you don’t get the admiration for this that you deserve, I would like to say thank you 🙏

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @OnTheJourney @Cinephile77 Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Your participation is appreciated.

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    I think a big difference is that a woman, if they want, could likely meet up with dozens of people in just a couple months. If they get three or four bad experiences they're more likely going to post about it compared to just one because frustration can increase over time.

    I know that women can feel people up without asking, just off the top of my head I can think of three times it had happened to me but that's over many years. If I were trying to meet people here and they kept feeling me up I would probably be frustrated.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @Cinephile77 👍👍👍💯

    @JasonCuddles Valid point. Numbers often tell stories as well. The more you do something the more something is likely to happen.

  • I_Am_Not_A_CatI_Am_Not_A_Cat

    I'm usually the one arguing that victims are victims, regardless of gender. But, let's be honest, the bulk of activity on this site is men looking to cuddle women. Incidents of women going too far without consent (and unwanted) should be handled the same, but I can't imagine the numbers are even close. And paying someone does make some people feel entitled, and disproportionately it's men paying women.

    As someone else pointed out, a lot of men do like it, so even when women act without consent, it isn't necessarily unwanted either. And I'm sure some do it simply because they see it as good for business.

    I've had women go further than I consented to. I do stop them, I do make it absolutely clear that it's not what I went to them for, and that's not what I expect/want. If they keep trying I reiterate that I didn't want sexual services from them and I'm not paying for that. For me it's an ethical issue as I never want someone to feel that they need to engage in anything sexual to make money, or that I'm taking advantage of their financial situation. That said, there's only so much I'll push back. I've had two keep pushing. The first cuddler I ever saw had a hand that kept wandering even when I pushed back. It was Valentine's day and I was repeatedly telling her that I didn't, nor would I want any involvement in paying for non platonic stuff. I also told her I don't want her doing anything she doesn't genuinely want to do. At that point she said "ok, today's free then". I think part of it was she was lonely because it was Valentine's day. The other one, this was the 4th or 5th time I had seen her, she told me that she doesn't feel comfortable charging me anymore, as she felt like she was seeing a good friend she liked cuddling with, not a client, and asked if I was comfortable with that. I ended up being friends with her for a while before she eventually moved to another state. So did they go beyond what I consented to? Yes. But most women push back because they don't want it and it makes them unfortunately, feel violated etc. I think I push back much more than the vast majority of men would, but it has to do with ethics, enthusiastic consent, and the context it's happening in. I can't exactly say I disliked what they were doing, or that I felt violated; The overwhelming majority of women would feel very different than I did in that situation.

  • pmvinespmvines

    @OnTheJourney there really isnt a big need to shout out " but I'm not that guy ". If you arent a creepy weirdo then just keep not being one . People do notice , even if they dont say it . When we make a big production about pointing out what we arent , it detracts from what we are

  • nonamenopenonamenope

    Selective outrage is complaining about women defending themselves then actually helping women fix the issue.

    Ain't no white man going to tell me how I should explain racism and sexism.
    When you silence victims and tell them how to talk it erases and white washes their voices

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @pmvines I don’t want to be that guy who announces his agreement but I agree.

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup

    @pmvines this point makes me kinda suspicious that @I_Am_Not_A_Cat may actually be a cat

  • SideonSideon

    @TD1964RGK - your question makes it sound as if the forums have some sentience and ability to dictate the content here. While there are certain topics that are against the TOS and forum rules, every post and comment is all you all. Mods may participate from time to time - we're human too. If you're taking posts and comments personally as if you were responsible for what others post and how others respond, that's all on the collective you as well.

    @lonelytauros - if there was a popularity gauge/contest that the site owners or moderators weren't aware of, could you point them out to us? Much obliged. Mods get involved and shut down threads when they are against the TOS and forum rules (typically personal attacks, when folks proselytize or spam the religious or political beliefs, or post in the wrong forum). We don't read every thread.

    @Cinephile77 - would that more posts had your eloquence, empathy, and wisdom. Great writing there.

  • OnTheJourneyOnTheJourney

    @pmvines you are truly correct and thank you for pointing that out. That paranoia is something I deal with internally because I am normally terrified of someone being even remotely inconvenienced by my presence. So, you are right, that's on me and I own that.

  • KozyKimKozyKim

    @Sheena123 I agree with you that it bugs women more and I don’t blame them. I had a recent client that said that after the cuddle was over the woman asked him if he wanted a blow job of course he said no because he just wants platonic cuddling. I did say did you report her and he said no. I think it’s because it didn’t bother him as much is it would bother a woman if she was asked something similar.

  • GreatHornedOwlGreatHornedOwl

    @FunCartel & @Cinephile77 @Sheena123 - When anybody writes in a post that "Men do .......," the implication is that all men and no women engage in the subject behavior. Such an assertion is virtually always pure nonsense. If the writer were to assert that "Most men do .......," or even "Many men do .....," they are still implying that the behavior in question is unique to men.

    Resopnding that "women do it to.", may indeed be "whataboutism." However, pointing out that their assertion could have been written without the false assertion, can be done in a constructive way, without engaging in "whataboutism." Personally, I resent being accused of behavior that I do not participate in.

  • GreatHornedOwlGreatHornedOwl

    @Sideon - When I read @lonelytauros's assertion that unpopular posts "will always be shut down," it wasn't clear to me, if he meant that that they would be shut down by a moderator, or if he meant that people would soon loose interest, and the post would just drift off into oblivion, as unpopular posts tend to do.

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