@lucycuddle Fail to see what that has to do with anything, but I don't foresee this going anywhere good. Maybe leave it there.
@dave31415 it's strange when someone loses debates then start playing with card ♦️ report to win debates. Well said by the way
Image reported and removed. Have fun in forum timeout, @TigerFan . Best wishes on maturation. All the best. [-Sid]
@lucycuddle - I'm not sure what the relevance of the question is, but there's a very simple answer. The father is whoever genetic testing says it is. We are no longer in the middle of the 20th century.
My boundaries are standard with anybody I meet here ,.and some things might be adjusted as comfort levels and trust increases. So in that regard there are variances, while still holding on to some non negotiables which I wont get into specifically as as it is meant for private discussion between myself and my cuddle pals .
@SunsetSnuggles I appreciate the thread topic as it opens the door for men to discuss their boundaries which is important, as it is sometimes assumed that there are none.
@GreatHornedOwl 🤗 🤗🤗 💯 @dave31415 as I said in my dm we are on two different parts of this subject and who we were responding to. 🤗
@GreatHornedOwl hhhhmm be more realistic,women have values and respect, would you like your daughter, sister, mother to have multiple husbands or boyfriends, don't take it personal ,just as an example.
I don’t understand how this is relevant either. But why shouldn’t a woman be able to do what she feels is right with her body. The topic is male boundaries. We're supposed to let @SunsetSnuggles have her thread back.
If I was cuddling with someone and they asked if their pet snake could join in on the cuddles, I would say no. But if they had a puppy, I would say yes.
@lucycuddle - I am very realistic. If I grew up in a society where polyandry was the norm, it probably wouldn't bother me a bit.
To those of you who flagged my posts for stating facts, because don't like what I had to say, let me assure you that facts don't care if you like them or not. Facts are facts.
If you don't like what I said, instead of flagging my post behind my back, point out how I erred, and I will be happy to discuss it with you. If I was wrong, you might even be able to convince me. If so, I'll gladly post a retraction.
If you would rather not go public with how you believe I erred, then message me, and we can discuss the matter in private
@Charlie_Bear I 100% agree with the snake & puppy cuddle boundaries.
@Charlie_Bear @Lisa123 I would welcome both the snake and the puppy 🙂
@KaaGee I am so scared of snakes, though I think they are really cool. I have managed to hold some, but yeah I am just too much of a wimp to cuddle a snake haha. I was just trying to think of a somewhat common pet that I’d be super scared of 🐍
@Lisa123 now I want to cuddle a puppy 🤗🐶
I'm enjoying hearing the different points of view, and I sort of hope this thread doesn't get locked, though I can see how if a few people keep doubling down adamantly on evolutionary psychology and/or disrespecting the mods, things will further degenerate.
Verbalizing one's own boundaries and respecting someone else's stated boundaries are two totally different things! I mean, someone who gives you a blank stare when you are trying to talk about boundaries maybe doesn't have the level of awareness and reflection about the nature and importance of boundaries that you are looking for in a cuddle partner, but still.
To the point that "men will test your boundaries, that's life/nature"... This reminds me of a few things. One is when I was getting divorced and trying to process what seemed like emotional abuse from my ex-wife, and in some online communities men were saying, "Women will test you, it's their nature." So there is this general worldview that goes both ways, that people are self-centered and just trying to get what they can get, through whatever behavior, which may be manipulative or with disregard for the other person. And this behavior is expected not just between strangers, but to continue as people enter into community, friendship, and life partnership. I refuse to believe that women are narcissistic and immature, or that men are narcissistic and immature, by nature. There are these narratives that are alluring when you are hurting and have lost faith in people, or a group of people (like men or women), or if you've been around a lot of people who act like we're still in high school, or you've been in abusive relationships, or you are trying to understand your own urges to control and manipulate others.
It's true that stating your boundaries upfront isn't the same as holding them. We all need to be prepared to hold our boundaries by taking appropriate action when the time comes. However, standing up to willful disregard for one's boundaries is hard and uncomfortable.
If you have a house rule that visitors need to remove their shoes at the door, for example, this is the kind of boundary that guests should take an interest in! Once you mention it, it should be no big deal. The worldview in which people are always adversarial and "testing" each other would tell you to expect some kind of power struggle over the shoe thing. Women are going to try to leave their shoes on to test a man's masculine strength. Men are going to try to leave their shoes on to see if a woman's boundaries can be stretched. When in reality, someone who gives you attitude about having a house rule about shoes (or confidently ignores it) should not be invited back or be someone you spend any time with. I'm not strict about people taking off shoes at my house, but people who come to the house ask me if they should take their shoes off sometimes out of respect and consideration. No one has ever tried to just sort of push through with "their boundaries" about my house.
The point is, it's just basic respect to take an interest in another person's boundaries and try not to cross them. This is a low bar, and just being in community with someone you should be able to expect some level of collaboration rather than selfish or "selfish gene" behavior.
On biology: Every time I think about how men might biologically tend to feel safer than women, I also think about what conditions our culture is creating, and it's hard to separate. I sometimes think about a conversation with a cat breeder I met who kept and raised many cats, who said males are so much more "chill" than females, who tend to be much more anxious. They tend to have different personalities, in this respect, along gender lines, and watching the cats and thinking about this, it seemed like they must occupy different worlds, externally the same, but offering different imagined dangers and possibilities. On another note, controversial author, YouTuber, and "guru" Teal Swan says in a video I watched once, with a calm, confident, and charismatic demeanor, "Women are prey animals." It's supposed to be a deep insight about men vs women, safety and fear. However, by her own account, she was abducted by a cult as a young child and suffered horrific abuse for her entire childhood. She's not a scientist and doesn't know more about the true nature of men and women or have more objectivity than you or I. She has a deep sense of unsafety because her sense of safety was taken from her.
My boundaries now include not making me read thread hijacks
@Francisco108 i like your house guest analogy. That is the predatory behavior I’m rallying against in my posts. No woman should have to have the limits of her “elasticity” tested. The person doing the testing is a predator not a guest. I’m NOT trying to imply that your comment agrees with me only that my “science is a little further along than that” didn’t hold up to an old school argument.
While I’m not saying either of my debate opponents are wrong ….in closing I’m saying if it’s an evolutionary argument you can’t stop where the science suits you. You have to take all of it. Free will, male instinct etc. there’s a lot more science (and philosophy )in there. Take men who are asexual and have no drive I think it’s doing disservice to them and a lot of people to say that men are boundary pushers by nature. Which intended or not is what this argument is giving off. I’d like to remind everyone here that a lot of young women use this site. As an 18-20 something I had no clue what I wanted, who I truly was or how to deal with men. They read the forums. They should never have to hear that it’s their job as a young woman to keep telling men no. In that case it’s their right to call the police.
What is being said is near the beginning of evolutionary science. What is being heard by many, "Men are predators."
And if you're wondering why the arguments were flagged... that's it. Not because of wrong science, not because people dislike you etc. The arguments were flagged because it sounds predatory. I know that wasn't the intention. And I'll admit to flagging a one myself. You can be right and be wrong all at the same time. It may not be intended but it's a very prevalent as an argument in predatory communities.
My boundaries? Don't be violent with me, don't demean me, don't ask what's wrong if you are not going to listen/flip it on yourself.
I value high emotional intelligence and most times I'm down in the dumps because life fucking sucks. Nothing quicker for me to set up walls than a dirty attitude/lack of respect when I'm venting to my partner about life. We should be in this together, I will be your rock 95% of the time, don't be a butt nugget the 5% of the time in vulnerable otherwise you'll never see it again and soon enough you'll never see me again.
Hijacking threads is quite the norm in this forum. I don't like it but I've come to accept it because it happens all the time.
Excellent topic! In my experience online, encountering individuals uncomfortable with talking about feelings boundaries and expectations is VERY common, that's why we're not connecting outside the front door! I want to trust first, which is why I keep getting into situations that are not the best matches, until recently, when I have been calmly stating my needs expectations and boundaries and not being flexible with them. I do this for me, not as a statement about anyone else. This is where I am at, asking for someone to meet me HERE, not there, and if it's not the other typer on the other side of a these fake plasma screens, I'm ok with that today. Enjoy the process and let everyone know where you are at and what you want/need...the rest will happen in its time. Spirit is busy, but you get included too, in time. Thanx for this topic and opportunity to double down and being me, being firm, and being kind all at the same time...cuddles!
@Melancholy - There are a few posts in this thread that are clearly off topic, but I don't see anything that should be classified as hijacking. If you're referring to the number of posts (that I started), I believe that those posts are specific responses to the original topic. What do you see as hijacking?
I'll repeat some of what I had said previously: The op's initial post appeared to me, to be bemoaning the fact that men (in general) don't appear to have any boundaries. It seems to me, that any explanation of why men may appear to have no boundaries, is not off topic, but is well within the scope of what this thread is about.
@GreatHornedOwl I believe that thread is more of an opportunity to highlight men's boundaries and celebrate that ss being an actual thing, and not meant to be a platform to justify the absence of boundaries and further advance the notion of it being up to the woman to define what is an acceptable parameter to stay within behaviorally. I dont think that @SunsetSnuggles is sinply "bemoaning" anything. It does come across as belittling to say that. And then to continue to restate and restate the reason why you continue to argue all of this instead of letting it go, even after multiple people have kinda said ok enough already might not be the best thing to do .
@stormydaycuddle
I appreciate your clarity and your eloquence, especially here:
You can be right and be wrong all at the same time. It may not be intended but it's a very prevalent as an argument in predatory communities.
@pmvines
I think you're right in your assessment of the OP's intent. I didn't get the sense that she was bemoaning anything. She asked a question, and shared an example from her experience showing a time when a man's lack of boundaries made her uncomfortable.
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I also think that if I ever feel attacked by comments someone makes, my first response should be to take an internal look. I believe that my emotional feelings in such situations say more about me than they do about the comments or the person making them. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but some men (including myself sometimes) have a tendency to feel attacked when we are not being attacked. Defensiveness in the absence of an attack often makes people look guiltier than they would otherwise.
Some of these comments remind me of the idea that once a guy is married or in a relationship no other woman is attractive to him anymore. I've seen threads where some guys will swear that's them. But I don't believe it and yet some people do believe them because they live in fantasy land.
I thought part of what OP was doing was rightfully bemoaning that experience. Bemoan is means to express discontent or sorrow over (something). To bemoan is not a bad thing. This has been a good and instructive thread in so many ways, but I'm puzzled about suggesting bemoaning always has a bad connotation, if that is what is happening.
@JoyfulHeart ty.
@Melancholy are you here platonically?
My take is you’re going after men who are saying they have boundaries with your comparison. Forgive me if I’m wrong and please clarify.
@melemcholy didnt you just make a couple of comments about how threads get off topic and hijacked ?
@pmvines - You're reading something into what I've said, that just isn't there. I have made no attempt whatsoever to justify a man not having boundaries. Explaining why something exists is far different from justifying its existence. I can offer several explanations for why racism exists, but I would never want to justify it. Similarly, I can explain why global warming exists, but again, I certainly wouldn't want to justify it.
That being said, I would argue that whether or not a man has boundaries simply isn't a relevant question, unless his boundaries are tighter that are those of the woman that he's cuddling with. If I'm cuddling with a woman, and I scrupulously comply with her boundaries, why should she be at all concerned with what my boundaries might be? She would be very unlikely to inadvertently cross them.
@achetocuddle - Thank you.
I'm glad that somebody understood what I said. Perhaps, I should be careful to only use very simple words that nobody can possibly misunderstand.
Everyone is going to give u different answers depending on their experiences and perspective. I for alone am insecure and have no self worth therefore I see myself as a tool for others to use. That my worth is nothing therfore I have nor should I have boundaries for myself. I'm an empty shell consuming how others treat me and I treat others with kindness and respect as I put people on pedal stool thinking everyone desvere respect and kindness except for myself. As if the world needs to punish me for existing. Which is why I find comfort in cuddleing a time where I feel important that someone is holding on to me and cares for me. But just like therapy and other stuff at the end it all feels fake and bought out bc u realize ur not important ur only importance is the money u provide so others will give u the "importance" of how u should feel only bc they want to get paid. That's my sad view. So I repeat the cycle and end up being worthless again. But for a moment during that cuddle I atleast feel I'm valuable as a human. Even for a sec. Til I go broke and use credit cards to get that fix of feeling like I matter