I think there's quite a few people, men and women, that would react very differently given different expectations.
I think it's very important to make sure that everyone understands, it's buying a healing and comforting experience, not buying a person.
Also, I think it's important that everyone realize that people are going to view you in the way that makes them feel best, which sometimes is about safety, but more likely is about feeling control. I'm pretty sure that the people that have trouble following the TOS, are mostly not feeling comfortable. There are healthy ways with parameters to help these folks feel more comfortable, and then after that they need to do inner work.
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The basic analysis of @JohnR1972 's post is solid.
I would rate myself somewhere between "normal" and "highly insensitive."
@mettamso No. Just no. There is NO excuse for anyone violating another's personal space and touching another when they are not given permission to do so. Period. Ever. Please understand that and don't ever excuse that behavior or that someone who is "uncomfortable" is suddenly allowed to get away with horrific behavior. (Yes, touching people's bodies who do not wish to be touched when you are in an intimate setting like cuddling, is horrific....or tends to turn horrific fast)
Secondly, violating TOS is not what this thread is about. Please read those initial posts before jumping in. This thread is simply about taking offense to statements that aren't really aimed at you, just because they are aimed at someone your same sex. ie. Men taking offense when a woman posts about a man who violated TOS in some way (either in messages or in person).
I'm repeating my earlier sentiments because they are THAT important:
It is never ok or excusable for ANYONE to violate another person simply because they are "uncomfortable"....or "lonely".....or shy.....or a certain gender.....or because they are paying money for cuddles. Everyone needs to stop trying to make excuses for obviously and universally bad behavior
Thank you for attending my rant....now back to the regularly scheduled rants for this thread 🫴
@RedFox16 that one seems to be about where the emphasis is in the last couple sentences. Good catch. I didn’t see it that way at first. Your reasoning is exactly why I think it’s identification and not being sensitive. Sensitive provides space for excuses.
@stormydaycuddle Thanks for the solidarity 🫶 I just can't even anymore with the defending bad behavior for dumb reasons.... Or for any reasons! I have teenage daughters who come and go on their own and it terrifies me with the knowledge that they have to sometimes interact with actually grown ups who legitimately have these types of opinions!! 🤨 And true about sensitivity providing excuses. There's no excuse for that.
Maybe we should just start responding to those who defend that behavior by asking what exact excuses they are willing to accept for assault;
"Ok, so to clarify....you're stating (in public) that it's fine for a man to assault a woman (or break the TOS) when he feeling uncomfortable? Do you mean as in, the type of discomfort when he's wearing an itchy wool sweater or when the thermostat is broken? Is that what you mean? And if not, what exact type of discomfort on a man's part warrants se*ual assault of a woman (or excuses it?)....who trusted him because he claimed he simply wanted comfort and healing?"
@RedFox16 im asking, are the only violations to TOS assault on women? For understanding, i didnt really understand what @mettamso was saying, but i was shocked that you came to the conclusion you did.
I don't understand how being uncomfortable could lead to violations or TOS but i definitely don't see how this relates to assault.
I've been uncomfortable many times in my life, it generally leads me to move away from people, or in extreme situations move them away from me.
@BashfulLoner I was under the impression albeit later that TOS violation is different than John’s topic. John doesn’t seem to be talking about breaking TOS but this comment seems to. On this one I’m going to admit I’m unsure and this is an amendment to my first comment.
When someone catches feelings for someone else the empathy can actually lead them to believe with extreme conviction that the other feels the same way and are hurt or angry when it doesn't work out that way.
@stormydaycuddle I don't think this is coming from empathy, but rather a simple loss of self-control - wishful thinking often compounded by loneliness and depression. I'm thinking back to a very early break-up where I remember drawing this cycle on a whiteboard of being in love and wanting her back and I couldn't escape… for some people it's just not yet having the mental strength to process this kind of intense emotion. A properly calibrated sense of empathy will back off when it perceives the other person is being hurt by its actions. It won't beg for love.
@cde123 fair. And you’re back!!! I think. How was your trip?
@stormydaycuddle It's been great! I just checked the forums this morning for the first time in so long, and there you are on every thread 😂 It's a good thing.
@cde123 I've been bored a little since I got sick. I’m fine btw. Just wooziness leads to downtime leads to forum addiction.
@PrettyLuv
@JohnR1972 when open ended blanket statements are made, it begs the question, is it intended for me or someone else, does it not?
Exactly. That was my original premise. Men who are more sensitive or empathetic are more likely to take blanket statements as being aimed at all men or at them than men who are less sensitive or empathetic.
@stormydaycuddle I am not in any way talking about excusing violations of terms of service. I do think that men who are less sensitive / empathetic are more likely to not care about how their actions impact others and therefore are more likely to violate TOS.
Someone else introduced the idea of men who are more sensitive mistaking feelings they might develop for someone as being mutually shared but that was not a part of my original premise.
@TxTom - Thank you.
@JohnR1972 I was talking about mettamso’s comment and saying that I don’t think it aligned with what your thread was about or ( without tying to put words in your mouth) your points. Redfox (and I’m now I’m the fence about this) believes his comment was about TOS violation tolerance which is I think different from what you were saying that was my point to bashful.
We both know I was the one who threw out the term empathy in regards to becoming too emotionally attached but I agree @cde123 is right it’s different.
@BashfulLoner -Good question....when you think of breaking TOS, what does your mind automatically think about it being in reference to? Especially when that person starts their comment with a startling reference to "buying" or "owning" a woman? (Yes, it was a positive comment to NOT view cuddle as buying women....that part did not escape my notice) But then when talking about men later in the comment, he talks about excusing their rule breaking because they're uncomfortable? Or being understanding that they simply need to work on themselves more?
-For me, I don't think he's referring to the rule about exchanging phone numbers too soon or something like that (especially when you take in the context of everything) 🤷🏻♀️
-Yes, I definitely went harder than I could have....but honestly, what are people usually referring to when speaking about breaking TOS? Read the rules again, and please fill me in on how else to view his comments that seem to be all over the place?
-I am a genuinely understanding person and usually the first person to give a person grace when they misspeak. But maybe notice that the only time I really get upset in my comments is in reference to any sort of POV that is accepting or excusing se*xual predatory behaviors. Please also think about why that might be? Why might a person get so upset about a singular topic in the threads?
-Finally, once you have 3 teenage daughters that are getting ready to be adults (and have also had terrifying life experiences firsthand with predatory behavior....and those people that excuse predatory behavior), come back and tell me your opinions about all this and how you'd feel with comments like that (or ones in past threads)?
-I'd truly be open to hearing about your thoughts once you've lived a life where you always have to watch out for your safety....and now have to prepare your own flesh and blood for similar experiences. And the fact that people still openly have thoughts that excuse predatory behavior is honestly the most scary part!
Also, @BashfulLoner I did want to make sure and thank you for how you worded your comment! I truly do appreciate how kindly and respectfully you phrased everything and asked me questions. I know we've disagreed before....but this one was different and I did absolutely notice! ☺️☺️
If anyone posts a comment about “men” they may mean the predatory men and sometimes (but not always) that is obvious in the context. But those comments are read by men at the other end of the curve who are more sensitive than most and who feel the comment is directed at them. This starts the dominos falling and within a few more posts we are all back at the “not all men” comments and derisive comments about the men who post such comments.
Sure I can see that. It reminds me of some services that when I call they've this automatic message I've to listen to about how they don't accept/tolerate disrespectful or verbal abusive towards their staff. The first time or two it emotionally took me back a bit, because I'm not that and I've never been that towards any establishment that I've called. Though I was able to step out of my feelings and understand that they are having to do that for a reason.
The world doesn't revolve around me and my feelings or how good of a person I am. They need to protect themselves against people who become verbally abusive towards them and it's not my place to tell them how to run their phone line. Do I like having to hear that when it has nothing to do with me? Nah. Though again, I understand and it is what it is. I'm sure they don't like having to go through it either. I think part of the situation at hand is also people who don't really like having to hear about the truth of the matter, because some people would rather just live in a peaceful oasis with women who are there to just smile and be friendly.
So when some or many women voice an unhappiness or speaking out against issues caused by other men it disrupts their "peace" or makes them uncomfortable. Nevermind the fact that said women aren't even on the clock and getting paid by said men, though they speak in ways that comes across as them expecting their profiles or commentary to be all rainbows and sunshine. The issue I think is also in part caused by sensitivity/inability to hear about it or handle women's suffering due to it often having been a hush-hush thing. Of course it is still just that, though things are hoping getting better with more women being able to speak out against the issues facing them.
Some people may have also grown up in homes in which their parents appeared like they never fought, so when they encounter real world conflicts or difficult topics in interpersonal relationships they want to in whichever way they can make it go away or run from it. In some cases maybe it was the opposite and perhaps they grew up in a home that had really horrible conflict resolution, so they either never learned how to handle conflict properly or they become so sensitive to it that at the sight of it they somehow react to it poorly. Whatever it is, I think it helps to learn to become a bit more capable of handling oneself and if one can't, look into getting therapy. The world can be a harsh place and no matter how much we wish it to become gentler, there will always be thorns. We need to learn to better protect ourselves in whichever ways we can while also being able to navigate life and seeing it for what it is. Not just the good, though we gotta be able to get through the bad times too. Life isn't all just rainbows and sunshine. Women aren't all just friendly and smiles.
We are trying to protect ourselves, safety first! Sorry if anybody chooses to take that personally, not really sorry. For instance, I once even had a guy I never met in person before get offended at me, because I said along the lines of I wanted to take it slow and meet him in public. I did have to be like "I'm not saying you'd hurt me, though I just gotta be safe because I don't know you." The me now would have wrote him off as a red flag, not necessarily because he's bad, he may or may not be I don't know... him, though I don't want to be in connection with someone that out of touch with reality and what women deal with. Or who is likely playing dumb. I also have no energy to essentially explain to a grown man that 1 + 1 = 2. If his momma or daddy never told him "stranger danger." I can't, maybe if I was getting paid to explain simple safety measures to them I'd have a bit of patience for it. Though they got to learn that themselves if they really care about understanding women and being able to better connect with them.
@RedFox16 i guess when i think of assault and consent issues, id never think of TOS violations. I mean i guess they are but they are things i feel should t need to be in there. I was making sure, apparently i missed something or didn't put it all together when i read some of the interactions. All good. I still cram to understand what he meant by uncomfortable causing any type of violation.