Thanks @achetocuddle - exactly, if someone is going to not like something about me it should probably be my godawful personality 🤣
Humor, at its core, is "something bad happening to someone else". The Germans even have a cool word for this concept, I think it's called "schadenfreude". This is why most men laugh when we see another guy get racked ... we KNOW how bad it hurts, and we're grateful it ain't us this time! When a comedian gets you to laugh at the troubles she has with her kids or her husband, it's because its funny hearing that SOMEONE ELSE has the same problems that we endure! There is very little humor that does not involve something bad happening to someone else. But nowadays, comedians use far more self-deprecating humor (for example, Kevin Hart will tell ethnic jokes, Gabriel Iglesias will tell fat jokes, etc). I certainly find some fat jokes funny, so long as they're not being directed AT someone in particular out of meanness . They're funny in part because I've been carrying around my 'fluffy' extra pounds for too many years now. Such jokes make me laugh at my own problems and help me know on a emotional level that other people really do share the same problems.
The KIND of jokes also make a difference i.e. "the people at that Golden Corral make ME look skinny!!" vs "you're so fat that [fill in punchline]". I will always love Al Bundy scenes that start with "a fat woman walked into the shoe store today" because poor Al is so clueless that if he were just a bit more kind and courteous to these gals, the bad things they do to him wouldn't happen. But there's time, place, the INTENT behind a joke, and who it's being directed at. Some of the comments here about bosses in workplaces are clearly on the 'not ok' side of things. Jokes that help us laugh at ourselves are usually ok
I have to reject the idea that "obesity is a disease and therefore beyond the control of the subject". No. False. Of course, I also happen to disagree with the medical community that obesity is a "disease" in and of itself. Sometimes a disorder? Yes. Sometimes a RESULT of disease? Yes. Certainly in people with things like a thyroid disorder, yes, weight is mostly beyond their control. But a substantial number of overweight folks can control their weight to some extent through food and activity choices. I had to finally buckle down on this myself, and it's hard work, but worthwhile - honestly sucks seeing how slowly the weight is coming off, but it took me years to pack it on.
If one were to accept the false idea that obesity is always beyond one's control, then one would have to believe that things like cardiac disease would also be out of one's control. Go ahead and ask your doctor what effect diet and exercise can have on blood pressure and cardiac health (and weight!). I'm not being unsympathetic to those with other medical problems that cause weight gain/retention, I'm truly not. But I don't like seeing false-to-fact ideas being spread around when those ideas can be harmful to oneself or to others.
@Jubal - what qualifications beyond your own biases do you have to disregard the entirety of the best thinking and most current medical literature and science? What specific, scientific research have you done? Where were your studies conducted, and where were your peer reviewed results published?
And your definition of humor is just entirely false.
And more to the point of the conversation, how does any of this entitle you or anyone else to find or create amusement at someone else's expense?
@natickben My point is that most humor is almost always "at someone else's expense".
As to the rest of your comments, I'll offer the following quote: "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are wiser than one man. How's that again? I missed something." Just because a large number of people subscribe to an idea doesn't mean that it MUST be true. Science has a funny way of having the herd believe something until one person proves otherwise.
But I can prove in one case that obesity is not a disease, which disproves the proposition that obesity is ALWAYS beyond the person's control. Now I would agree that obesity is "often" or "sometimes" beyond the persons control. But not always.
Finally, my yardstick is whether the joke is making me laugh AT MYSELF
Finally, my yardstick is whether the joke is making me laugh AT MYSELF.
This! I always say, "You don't need to find something about me to laugh at, wait a few minutes and I'll do it for you."
Very well stated, @Jubal
Gotcha. So the experts are wrong and your bias is right.
This is exactly the problem. Everyone is an expert, and when their "expertise" is actively harmful and blatantly wrong, as is repeatedly expressed by many people in this thread, well, too bad.
Kinda like raisins vs choco chunks
Until that one person comes along to prove it wrong, usually best to buy into the science.
@natickben - Thinking that nobody needs to adjust their lifestyle because one person said so is a dangerous mindset to have.
@Jubal My humor is mainly puns. I'm notorious for it. What's the "bad thing that happens to someone else" in a pun?
Whether you like puns or not, they are considered humor. I don't need them to hurt someone in order to derive enjoyment from them. A good pun is its own reword.
@natickben- You are now determining that people's definition of humor is true or false. You talking about bias is comical. You have clearly demonstrated little to zero self introspection ability whatsoever. You are obviously not reading the posts by others-The only one claiming expertise in this discussion is you-using the words "science, expert and best thinking ". @TxTom has already attempted to show you a different view of "science" which you have clearly rejected. "Science" also proves that if you Fast-you will lose weight- I refer you to @achetocuddle post about the choice between sacrifice and enjoyment. No ones says it is easy-but it is under your control-that is the point some are trying to get across to you. I can learn to speak Chinese if I sacrifice my time watching football and drinking beer. Do I want to do that?
Anyone who has ever fasted knows how difficult it can be to not eat for days. It can be done however and you will lose weight so the science can be used by both sides in this discussion. Someone who holds a different view than you should not be accused of insensitivity.
This has morphed into separate discussions -
1-obesity is not in a person's control-because science says it is a disease. We have all weighed in on this- pun intended- and people disagree on some points and agree on others You seem to be upset that people disagree with you-saying that you are backed by science and they are only using bias. We are all biased. Every one of us is biased to what we believe-It's OK
2- Fat jokes- are cruel and should stop- "you see these fat jokes everywhere in your life"{That,in and of itself, is a truly wild statement- Most everywhere in your life? We typically attract what we're thinking about and that goes for all of us.
Again-according to your words these are not even jokes that were directed at you-They are jokes that you have decided need to be policed- you and others have decided-they are simply not OK- Not everyone agrees and you have to accept that. Some people-even “Fat” people enjoy those jokes-We have heard from several of them on this site.
@TxTom and @cuddlyDavid make a great point about humor-It is being destroyed by this kind of "I am offended by what I see and hear' mentality with everything. These posts are so long ago they are even hard to remember.
We can go down the line about race-gender-body type-geographical location-personality types- political party-sexual preference-There are endless posts out there about everything that are "Offensive" to somebody Life is much more interesting when you get out of the echo chamber and laugh a little. Laughter brings comfort and no one is suggesting being cruel to people is funny. Deciding what jokes people are allowed to make is a bridge too far and being offended is a choice. That is the point some are trying to drive home to you. You can take it or leave it but always know it is never a personal attack.
@BrianOcean
...now determining that people's definition of humor is true or false...
Actually, it's progressed to the point now of determining (or "re-imagining") definitions across the board on a range of topics.
I often suggest that the most important part of Orwell's 1984 is not the story itself, but rather the Appendix that explains Newspeak.
Fat jokes are some of the funniest.
My humor is mainly puns. I'm notorious for it. What's the "bad thing that happens to someone else" in a pun? Whether you like puns or not, they are considered humor. I don't need them to hurt someone in order to derive > enjoyment from them. A good pun is its own reword.
My humor is mainly puns. I'm notorious for it. What's the "bad thing that happens to someone else" in a pun?
Whether you like puns or not, they are considered humor. I don't need them to hurt someone in order to derive > enjoyment from them. A good pun is its own reword.
Having to be subjected to puns IS the bad thing happening to someone else - the listener
@MonkeyNeedsA
Get a grip on what?
Be an adult. Keep your energy on this thread instead sending me private messages and then blocking me. These are discussions. No one is being harmed by disagreements. I hope you get your hug quick for all of our sakes.
** MonkeyNeedsAHug blocked BrianOcean**
Humor, at its core, is "something bad happening to someone else". The Germans even have a cool word for this concept, I think it's called "schadenfreude". This is why most men laugh when we see another guy get racked ...
I bet there are quite a few people here who won't be able to handle Jeff Ross or Greg Jiraldo
How about Al Bandi? He's kinda mild comparing to them
The situation in this country is heartbreaking. The real reasons why people get addicted to anything is heartbreaking. To pretend that it's an individual problem is ludicrous. It's systemic. But as was said earlier, at this point we all have to fix our own problems. No one is going to fix anything for you.
In this country, we don't even put human life on the short list of our priorities. Human value and dignity, what is that? If they could put it in a pill and sell it to you, they'd kill your mother if they had to to do it. And the people we voted for would give them a tax break to do it.
Much of the country is addicted to something. Food, drugs, rx drugs, alcohol, sex, porn, gambling, shopping, plastic surgery, work, exercise, likes, social media, cellphones, tv, etc.
I'll say it again but it's all really heartbreaking. There are well known and studied reasons why people become addicted to things like food. And they aren't even being talked about here.
Things are bad.
We aren't even ready for the conversation let alone the cure.
In this country, we don't even put human life on the short list of our priorities. Human value and dignity, what is that?
Excellent, @billiam
We aren't even ready for the conversation...
But we're past due for it.
No one should ever make fun of someone for their weight, it's horrible to do. At the same time don't say "look at the science about obesity". The only animals in the entire world that are obese are humans, and animals in captivity (pets of humans, animals in zoos, etc). So it's hard to say it isn't a choice to an extent and it's wrong to say it's science, because if that were the case there would be obese wild animals, and there aren't any at all. There are of course exceptions, and genetics of course play a part. But diet and life style are by far the main factors when it comes to obesity. Let me re iterate that I agree, no one should ever attack anyone for their body, weight, etc. I just think it's also not right to say we can't do anything about it to lose weight as if it's beyond us. We all have the power to live healthier lives.
For the most part, people are very vain. It’s easy to attack someone’s appearance, but it takes a lot more courage to try to know and understand someone.
@lonelytauros I continue to be amazed at how vain some people are. It sometimes rules their life. It's hard to understand. And it takes EFFORT to really know someone and some people just hate that crap, lol.
Not aimed at anyone in particular, just some thoughts from a fairly well known author on human potential.
A couple other meaningful quotes from Bryant McGill…
“ Some people are so addicted to their misery that they will destroy anything that gets in the way of their fix.”
“The worst bullies you will ever encounter in your life are your own thoughts.”
“You have to make the decision to let go of the past if you want to move forward. Reliving your painful past will poison your heart and your tomorrow. If you look at today through the eyes of the past, you can never see what the present moment has to offer.”
“When you give others a new chance, a new chance is really being given to you.”
I got essentially the above response the first few times I called out a racist “joke” here in the forums. I was told I should choose to ignore the racism if it offended me. That approach is wrongheaded. First, offensive behavior won’t change unless it’s confronted. Second, when a genuine conflict arises, why should people change to make more room for offensive behavior, instead of changing to make less?
I don’t understand people here. Are we not here for cuddles? Who gets more cuddles by being mean?
What is considered offensive is a matter of individual perspective, and is different for everyone.
If you believe an -ism to be based on an untruth, then it is a fiction. Why would you be offended by a fiction?
Who exactly is being mean?
As a fat dude I don't mind, as long as it's good natured. We're supposed to be jolly after all. It gets somewhat irritating when the objective is just to point out that I'm fat lol. Like I don't know it or something.
Ditto on the not a choice thing, when I was super into working out and cutting calories I was still what some would describe as "chubby", just always been that way. Even now eat normal quantities/quality of food but for whatever reason the fat stays (though my guilty pleasure is to booze a couple times a week that can be a contributor).
Have a buddy that eats like a big, never gains much weight. Hes always talking ish about how fat people have no discipline etc yet this guy puts away a Popeyes 2 can dine special by himself on the regular.
@MonkeyNeedsAHug You are curiouslyly upset by the varying viewpoints on here and so you create a straw man argument that you are against the_ "mean people"- _
I have never contacted you before and yet you sent me a private message to "get a grip" and then you blocked me so I could not inquire or discuss what you were talking about.
Was saying get a grip to some one who has never spoke to you before mean? Was blocking me mean?
To @TxTom point about "Offensive"- what is considered mean is in the same category.
I call BS on the claim that someone made a mean racist joke directly to someone else in this chat and you were told to ignore it. More than likely it was a joke that you deemed not appropriate and you had to swoop in and save the day to protect everyone from all the "mean people" If anyone needs to get a grip-It's clearly you.
I thought someone made a post where people were going to be telling fat/yo momma jokes or something I was like that's kinda insensitive but ok I guess I'll check it out lol.
On the real though noone should be made fun of for weight or really anything. I'm a personal trainer and the one thing that really really pisses me off is when someone overweight is in the gym and training to be a healthy or keep their heart healthy and then someone starts making fun of them.... I have to resist the urge to smack them upside the head for making gym culture so damn toxic... Literally the reason why so many people are afraid of gyms (some of my friends included) and stopping people from getting healthier or even losing weight. I know some people can't lose the weight for genetics or diseases but I have seen overweight people who have healthy hearts from staying active and the gym is a great place to do this when we make it a positive environment. Also I have seen people who can and do eventually lose the weight but for years they didn't because they were afraid to workout in public or in gyms.. ok rant over