Anyone else feel a little pathetic paying for cuddles?

[Deleted User]ryanosw (deleted user)
in Pro Cuddling

I do believe in the therapeutic power of cuddling and human touch. But I was just curious, does anyone else feel kinda sad that they had to come to the website and pay a total stranger money just to hold them? Sometimes I just feel down over the fact that human connection and touch seems to come so naturally to others but not me. Anyone else feel the same or have a solution to connect with others more naturally?

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Comments

  • ubergigglefritzubergigglefritz

    I have so much to say on this subject... I'm heading out to go camping for the night, but I'll just say one thing... It says more about society than about you, that it's become necessary. Our society is SO disconnected and judgmental, it's awful. Society is the problem, not you. 💜 I do understand the struggle though. This is a finicky space to work in. It's why I like doing the money online outside of our time together. Money throws everything off... I love all my clients though, and really appreciate the support from every one of them. 🤗

  • TxTomTxTom

    Anyone else feel a little pathetic paying for cuddles?

    No.

  • Will564Will564

    @ryanosw

    I definitely think a lot of people feel the same as you. I know I do sometimes. And it’s hard to admit because you have to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. And I always remind myself that it takes more courage to be open and honest about those feelings than to hide them and act like they’re not there. I also think sharing them makes us all connect more and not feel as alone in them.

    I like this blog post about it:

    https://www.snugglewithsam.com/blog/notaloser

    I’ve noticed that I have definitely improved mentally and as a person thr more sessions I’ve done. It’s hard because money is always an issue, and sometimes you can worry that you spend the money and are in the same spot you started.

    For me that hasn’t been the case though. I think at the beginning I was dying for touch and understanding so badly that I felt like it was a hole that would never be filled.

    But the more I’ve done it, the better I’ve felt. It’s like it’s filled me up.

    But part of that is that I’ve used the opportunity to learn about touch. Instead of just doing thr same thing every time, I’ve tried to explore different things as much as possible. Instead of just lying there hugging, I’ve tried giving and receiving touch in as many ways as possible.

    And I’ve been surprised to see how much I’ve grown as a cuddler because of it. I’ve learned so much more about how to give touch in a way that another person enjoys, and learned how to receive it in a way that is satisfying for the other person too.

    So for me, looking at it like that has helped a lot. I’ve viewed it as kind of a journey where I can get better and better.

    And that way, I’m hoping that it will make me a lot more equipped to make enthusiast sessions better. If I’m able to offer something rather than just make it about me, then I know that both me and the other person’s needs will be fulfilled.

    Basically…I’ve used pro cuddling to first fulfill my own needs, and now I’ve started using it to learn how to offer something to someone else. So I view pro cuddling as something to improve myself, not just repeating the same thing over and over ab feelign empty.

  • sg89sg89

    Good question, I think it belongs in the general thread.

    A perspective... People value things in different ways. You may pay for cuddles because they are valuable to you but I can guarantee you those cuddlers will pay for things in their life that you don't value. Would you consider their expenditure a waste of money? I am highly introverted, imagine how many stories I hear of people doing things that I either do not value or place little value on.

    Now for me...cuddling is relaxing and touch related. The nearest service I can think of to that in the UK is a professional massage and that's the sort of price per hour I would find acceptable. I'd only feel rubbish if I was obsessively seeking out cuddles and I was paying at a rate way above a massage here, neither of which I do. I am staunch to the point that if everyone in my area charged more than what I thought to be acceptable I am completely content to not cuddle any professional.

    If you have a principle and measured thought process about the experience you won't find it pathetic.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    Quite the opposite, I was absolutely over the moon. Couldn't believe my luck.

    The thing you are getting at is that we are "supposed" to find happiness in secure romantic relationships, and if you don't have that then you are somehow inadequate. But the reality is that our society is set up in such a way that achieving that is actually quite difficult, and is entirely impossible - or undesirable - for a large proportion of people.

    It's a bit like being unemployed in a town where the dominant factory has just closed and the there simply are no jobs for fifty miles in any direction. It's not "pathetic" that you don't have a job: it's completely unavoidable. What is pathetic is having the ability to do something about it, but not doing it.

    Paying for cuddles is doing something about it. It is literally the opposite of pathetic. Pathetic is being able to pay for cuddles, but not doing it and instead making a point of sitting at home alone being miserable.

    Bonus: hiring professional cuddlers significantly boosts your ability to make connections with others naturally. Not only is it good practice, it triggers a whole bunch of helpful hormones.

    Nobody ever lay on their deathbed thinking, "Of course the big mistake was hiring professional cuddlers."

  • LadyVelLadyVel
    edited June 2024

    @ryanosw as @ubergigglefritz mentioned, society has become so disconnected. I believe that human touch and connection are fundamental needs, and it's normal to feel sad when needs are not met naturally.
    Many people struggle with trying to find meaningful connections and platonic touch. Even I have had a hard time finding just platonic touch sometimes as many people can't separate cuddles from sex.

    @sg89 had mentioned massage being the closest similar thing to cuddling as it involves touch. I've had friends and dates who were good at back rubs before and even one who is an LMT. My friend might occassionally give me a free massage but if my muscles are sore, and they aren't willing, I would pay for a massage. We aren't pathetic paying for a massage...

    So if our minds and souls need the comfort that comes from cuddling and platonic touch, and we can't get it elsewhere, why would it be pathetic to pay to take care of our cuddle needs?

    So it is not pathetic to pay to take care of your mind and body. You may feel sad for paying for it but that's okay. It still doesn't make it pathetic. Just know you can also feel proud in yourself for figuring out what you need and finding ways to make sure those needs are met.
    🫂🤗🫂

    edit to fix grammar

  • ubergigglefritzubergigglefritz

    @Will564 Here's another one. I like the last three paragraphs the best though. Need to move them around... https://www.cuddlinghaven.com/why

  • Will564Will564

    @ubergigglefritz

    (Spoilered to avoid derailing too much from the OP)

    It’s very interesting because I personally have always viewed pro cuddling from the lens of the link you just posted.

    But I’ve learned that on CC, not everyone views it this way. In a lot of cases, people are just paying for an enthusiast experience. It’s just that the client is paying for the “privilege” of the pro’s time and attention and nothing else. Apparently enough clients are willing to pay for this and there are pros willing to offer just that.

    personally don’t think that’s enough for me to pay for, especially when there are pro cuddlers out there willing to offer the kind of service mentioned in your link. Some clients feel like expecting this much from a pro is too much. I disagree.

    However, where I do think I’ve grown some is enjoying the idea of giving touch. While as a client I should never feel obligated to serve the pro’s cuddling needs, if I want to, then that is completely fine. The pro is still tending to my needs by letting me give the kind of touch she (or he) enjoys. But it is still up to me.

    think where clients have to be careful in doing that is not letting the situation become equal in their minds. They can’t forget that they are paying for the service, not experiencing a completely mutual session. Otherwise they risk becoming dependent or attached to the pro.

    It’s why I find the idea of pro cuddling so incredibly fascinating. It’s such a unique dynamic.

  • Spud424Spud424

    No because I find cuddling a valuable service. And quite honestly I couldn’t get a date if I had a fistful of pardons at a women’s prison so this is the only way i am going to get any physical affection.

  • TxTomTxTom

    @Spud424 That's not a healthy attitude to have about yourself. Having confidence is a natural attractor for other people. Don't worry what you think others think about you, just concern yourself with how you think about you. The rest will fall into place.

  • ATemporaryUser0ATemporaryUser0

    In theory I find the very fact that pro cuddling exists to be absurd, and it’s not really something I want to support.

    But in practice, it’s really not that big a deal. This is the way the world is; there’s no way to fight it. It’s an easy way to get some cuddles, so why not?

  • Will564Will564

    @ATemporaryUser0

    In theory I find the very fact that pro cuddling exists to be absurd, and it’s not really something I want to support.

    I actually find the idea of pro cuddling existing to be completely logical. What I find absurd is the set up of society that has led it to exist.

    Namely I find it absurd that there are so many people that can't respect other people's boundaries. The fact just blows my mind. I cannot fathom the idea of not respecting another person's physical boundaries.

    Until that gets sorted out, of course people aren't going to be comfortable with the idea of someone touching them that they don't know and trust well. If you can't trust someone to respect your boundaries, how can you trust them to touch you? Some people are willing to make that jump, but I can't blame anyone in the slightest who wouldn't want to.

    Of course, I also believe that this may vary from culture to culture. The US may be more touch averse than other cultures. This may be true in families, and it may be true with friends.

  • MelancholyMelancholy

    You know, initially I didn't think about that....
    But then I saw a pro cuddler and she let it slip that I'm not like the other "losers" who have to pay someone to cuddle with them...she seemed puzzled why I couldn't just find someone to cuddle with for free...and yea I started feeling pathetic.
    but the best pro cuddlers make you forget about those details...for that hour or two hour window of time you are just enjoying the cuddling and touch, and who cares why its happening or that money is the reason its happening

  • ubergigglefritzubergigglefritz

    @Melancholy that is horrible that she said that. None of the people I have seen are losers. Like you said, find a good compassionate pro and you will know you're not pathetic or a loser. 😔

  • Will564Will564

    @Melancholy

    @ubergigglefritz is right. That was an absolute horrible thing for her to say. I don't think I could be comfortable cuddling with someone saying that.

    I don't even think it's appropriate for a pro to make any kind of comparisons of clients. Every one is unique and has particular needs and is in a different place in their cuddling journey.

    All of that being said, I think you can still re-frame what she said as a positive. It means you're a good cuddler. You have skills to make someone else happy. Hopefully you would have the willingness to do so in an enthusiast situation.

    It can just be really hard to "prove" to others you're a good cuddler. There are so many bad actors, people who push boundaries and people who are in it for themselves. When there is so much of that to sort through, it's very hard for someone to know that the person contacting them is safe, respectful, kind and skilled and willing to serve their needs, not just look out for their own.

    I personally think if someone is really dead set on finding an enthusiast, one of the best things you can do is use sessions with pros to improve your cuddling skills. Learn ways to communicate about touch, finding out what the other person likes and how you can do it. Especially if you do this with a variety of pros, you kind of get more versatile in your skills (and maybe even get some karma along the way) That way you'll have more to offer to enthusiasts because you'll know more about how to serve someone else's cuddling needs.

    That's the way I look at it any way. That's what keeps me from feeling pathetic as a client.

  • TxTomTxTom

    @Will564

    I find it absurd that there are so many people that can't respect other people's boundaries. The fact just blows my mind. I cannot fathom the idea of not respecting another person's physical boundaries.

    Are you not a student of history? Humanity's track record is replete with invasions, wars, and conquests. Ignoring boundaries is sort of in our nature.

  • Will564Will564

    @TxTom

    So I can understand the natural human desire of greed for pleasure or power (though the power one is hard for me to relate to personally).

    But there is also a natural human desire to care about the well being of other humans.

    For me in this context, one of my natural physical desires while cuddling is to squeeze the other person's forearm. However, if I get any inclination they're not comfortable with that, my care for the other person's well being overrides my own physical desire. I cannot enjoy the physical feeling I desire if I know it's making the other person uncomfortable. Whether that's a trait that I learned through culture or whether it's a natural in born trait, that is something I have in this specific instance that some people apparently don't have.

    From what it sounds like, in this particular context of cuddling, some people don't have the same override I do. That's what I don't fully understand.

    But certainly it's something that can be overcome one way or another. Many of our natural desires can be overcome to make us happier.

    (I've watched some interesting videos about why we care so much about what other people think of us or why we have certain fears, which is a natural feeling that at once was necessary for survival but no longer is. It shows that some of our natural tendencies actually do us more harm than good in modern society).

    There are lot of things people used to do throughout history that may have been due to their natural desires that many modern cultures no longer do...and society is better for everyone for it.

    So to me, that would be the key to overcoming the issue of people crossing boundaries.

  • Katelyn_BKatelyn_B
    edited June 2024

    @Will564 wrote, "So I can understand the natural human desire of greed for pleasure or power (though the power one is hard for me to relate to personally). But there is also a natural human desire to care about the well being of other humans."

    I like what you wrote here, Will, and reminds me how "human nature" expresses itself in so many ways, in addition to in broad strokes, both in my reading and with the people I've met over the years.

    People, both as individuals and in various flavors and forms of collectives, are complicated at times and simple at others, which for me can be a little scary and also wonderful.

    So far as the original question goes, I did not feel pathetic in the slightest paying for sessions with pro women when I was an enthusiast. I certainly do understand and sympathize (but not pity, at least not in a condescending way) with anyone who feels pathetic pursuing something they deeply need.

  • AchterbahnAchterbahn

    @Will564

    But there is also a natural human desire to care about the well being of other humans

    ...in our tribe.

    How we define our "tribe" can vary, but I think that many of those that have no respect for another person's boundaries don't see the other person as fully equal. They are not part of that person's tribe, they are a part of some "other".

    On the topic of the different ways that "human nature" is expressed (as @HarleyGirlKate mentioned), there is a TED talk that I watched many years ago that had a profound impact on me. It discusses the roles of "givers", "takers", and "matchers" in society. It's "Are you a giver or a taker?" by Adam Grant:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=YyXRYgjQXX0

    Also, on the original topic: I do not feel pathetic paying for cuddles. I tend to put it in the same self-care category as massage. I also don't feel pathetic paying for a massage, a haircut, having my lawn mowed, or my oil changed. All of those things I could either do myself or trade with someone that I know to do those things, but paying someone is usually much easier.

  • Will564Will564

    @Achterbahn

    ...in our tribe.

    How we define our "tribe" can vary, but I think that many of those that have no respect for another person's boundaries don't see the other person as fully equal. They are not part of that person's tribe, they are a part of some "other".

    You make an extremely good point here. I think it's one that so many us, including myself, aren't honest with ourselves about.

    I think what's complicated to me is how we all decide who's in our tribe and who's not. I think THAT is the part I need to understand and analyze more, including how I do it myself. Maybe that's what I actually need to figure out first.

    It's made me think about this some. In general, I try to find the common humanity in people. But when I think about boundary pushers (or worse), my mind doesn't.

    And I think I may need to start looking deeper. There's SO much to the topic and the reasons behind this that are very deep, and I think I'm overlooking those.

    I'll have to watch your video later, it sounds interesting. My mind wants to say I'm a "matcher", but I find the idea very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

  • ubergigglefritzubergigglefritz

    I think one of my tribes are people I think don't have a tribe (or at least not one present). 😂 I will see, and come try to help, anyone who I think is on their own and being "attacked". It's a strength and a fault, and honestly a reason I'm drawn to this work. I wouldn't classify everyone I see as triggering this in me, but I will say that anyone who feels alone, you won't feel that with someone like me. 🥲 I know what it feels like and I don't wish it on anyone...

  • AchterbahnAchterbahn

    @Will564
    If you're interesting in exploring the idea of tribes vs outgroups (or others), there is a very thought-provoking (long) blog post which I found interesting and illuminated a lot of these ideas for me. Google "slate star codex outgroup" and it should be the first link.

    On the video: I'm a giver and I found that video 7 years ago on a day that I had completely burned out. It was very helpful for me to learn better ways of being a giver without losing myself. I have shared it with dozens of people and still rewatch it occasionally.

  • Will564Will564

    @Achterbahn

    I watched the video and it was really cool. I think I am a matcher, though maybe slightly on the giver side.

    There was a lot of interesting stuff in the video about how to maximize a culture to make the givers thrive. I thought the most illuminating part was identifying and eliminating the takers, realizing how much strong influence they have in dragging everyone else down.

    Very interesting, assuming it's pretty accurate. I'll have to check out the blog post too.

  • cuddlefaerycuddlefaery
    edited June 2024

    I REALLY love learning, love taking classes and attending seminars.

    I can't count the number of extra curriculars I've taken over the decades at this point 😅 With limited income I am always super excited when I find free classes/events in subjects in which I'm interested. But I also value it enough to save up money to spend on special courses I wouldn't normally be able to attend - I'll apply for scholarships, negotiate work exchanges, ask about sliding scale payments, or see if there's any other payment plan options available. I value the teacher and creators time, energy, and skill and want to support them in their work as best as I'm able when I'm able.

    I also really love platonic cuddling even outside of my relationships.

    I enjoy cuddling as an enthusiast, making cuddle friends I can hang out with and have fun with, relax and de-stress, fill our cuddle cups and regulate our nervous systems together.

    I really enjoy attending and hosting cuddle events, too.

    These are a middle ground cost-wise - some are very cheap, some are a bit more of an investment of time and money. I'll sometimes feel a bit burned out after an event, need a day or two to recover emotionally and physically. Between my chronic illnesses and neurodivergence, socializing with larger groups of people and expending that much energy for a sustained amount of time can take a lot out of me even if doing a relaxing activity like cuddling. Yet, it's always, always worth it because it is something I love and is building memories and human connections I'll always cherish.

    And finally, I of course enjoy hiring professional cuddlers.

    I may not have the opportunity to do this often due to financial constraints with my health, but when I'm able to it is as much an act of self-care as getting deep tissue massage, attending therapy, or my very rare salon pedicures. It is nourishing on a very deep level as I'm the one being cared for instead of the caretaker for a change - funny, I know, as someone with multiple chronic illnesses. It gives me a chance to fully let go of the vice-like control over my nervous system that years of trauma taught me to build up. It is worth every penny when I'm able to save up for it, and I cherish my pro cuddle friends as lifelines to sanity I look forward to when my stress of carrying the world has been building up for too long.

    So no, I do not feel pathetic paying for professional cuddling any more than I do paying for educational courses or therapy or massages or anything else I value and need for my self-care and enrichment. Even though I can get cuddles for "free" as an enthusiast and a woman with romantic partners, those cuddles do not fulfill the same purpose in my life. I am more than happy to compensate the professionals for their time, energy, knowledge, and skills because they bring immense value and comfort to my life.

  • Bella_SeraBella_Sera
    edited June 2024

    Thank you for sharing your blog, @ubergigglefritz. You very elegantly express what I have often tried to communicate to clients—it’s not about paying for affection.

    You could absolutely 💯 percent find someone to cuddle you for free, but it takes time, effort, emotional investment, patience, rejection, and at the end of the day, you may still not get to be held the way that YOU want, because she’s going to expect you to hold her the way she wants.

    I think of pro cuddling like those Disney World Fast Passes. You can enjoy Disney without them, for sure, but you spend a lot of time waiting in the hot sun and have to make tough choices about what to prioritize. You also leave a lot of your enjoyment/experience to chance.

    But if you buy the FastPass, you get to “skip to the good part,” bypassing lines, sampling more attractions, and being able to sort of “hold your place” while you’re out doing other things.

    Likewise, if you pay me for cuddling, you get my undivided time and attention and you get to “skip to the good part”—you’ll be snuggled in my arms within the first 5 minutes of meeting me. No need to wine and dine me or impress me or try to figure out what I want.+ It’s all about you and what you want.

    And in between sessions, you don’t have to worry about texting me or asking about my day or caring what my mother ate for dinner. You can come back for a second cuddle and be right back in my arms without having to do any of the relationship maintenance that an enthusiast partner might require. And you can end the relationship at anytime without having to worry about my feelings.

    +To be clear, I’m not insinuating that pro cuddlers don’t enjoy the pleasantries of an attentive cuddle partner or appreciate gestures of mutual affection, I’m just saying it isn’t required. So too, it’s possible that your pro cuddler might feel a little hurt if you see someone else, but she really shouldn’t be expressing that you—deeply uncool and unprofessional.

  • Will564Will564

    @Bella_Sera

    I really love this post. I think it really breaks down what a client is paying for when they pay for pro cuddling.

    What I'm realizing the more I think about this topic, the more I don't think I truly understand the enthusiast experience. And also that I think too much about what other men want out of cuddling instead of focusing on how it works for me.

    Because for me, I'm paying for such a deeply personalized experience and I try to maximize it when I have a session with a pro.

    So I get baffled by the idea of someone viewing pro cuddling as just paying for an "enthusiast experience". It baffles my mind that someone would pay for that or that there's a market at all for that. To me it's so much more.

    So that's where your Disney FastPass analogy helps me to understand it better. The idea that part of the enthusiast experience is going through a really long process that doesn't even guarantee that you get what you're looking for, which could even be disappointing.

    But when you're with a true pro, you're able to get what you're looking for basically immediately.

    I think it's the whole point of "not paying for affection" that I have to steer clear of. I agree completely with you on this, but when I've mentioned it the past, I've found a number of people disagree with that. And I've learned I just have to let them be and just accept that others may end up viewing this differently and I can't worry about it.

  • [Deleted User]MaverickLegend (deleted user)

    “The idea that part of the enthusiast experience is going through a really long process that doesn't even guarantee that you get what you're looking for, which could even be disappointing.”

    @Will564 I think that depends on what you’re looking for if you’re looking for a purely physical connection, then a pro will fill that. If you’re looking for a connection that’s more than physical It’s gonna take time for someone to be comfortable with you whether they’re a pro or an enthusiast.

  • Will564Will564

    @lonelytauros

    I agree with you. But, I do think some pros are more experienced and more skilled at creating that emotional comfort and getting more comfortable much faster.

    And I think I'm realizing that because I've gotten used to that speed with an experienced pro, it's more of a process with an enthusiast, at least for me.

  • ubergigglefritzubergigglefritz

    @Bella_Sera I love that analogy! =D

    @lonelytauros from my experience, like @Will564 responded as well, if it's a stellar and authentic professional, you'll feel comfortable and connected within minutes. People who are mainly looking at the physical side of meeting up with a cuddler are typically not my ideal clients. It's about more than that - feeling safe, accepted, validated, cared for, valued, etc etc.

  • CuddleClimbCuddleClimb

    Yes! I do!!!

    But I embrace it. Which makes me proud of me being pathetic!

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