@MarigoldBloom Girl on girl has always been acceptable to gay-bashing men, because girl on girl is hot. As long as they're not in a relationship, of course, because that would be gay.
@BJC Please explain to me how responding to flags as I am supposed to do and every mod comment I have made has not made any changes to their content is heavy handed. I put mod notes so people know the comment has already been flagged so they are not flagged again.
@walsh33 I admire how you stick to your guns. How else can you learn?
There are numerous examples of straight men engaging in physical activities with other men that go beyond just cuddling. For instance, Paul McCartney has recounted a story about him, John Lennon, and some friends engaging in a circle jerk, which he discussed in an interview with GQ magazine in 2018. Additionally, Jack Kerouac, who identified as straight, and Allen Ginsberg, who was gay, shared a brief romantic and sexual relationship during a time when Ginsberg was heartbroken, with Kerouac providing emotional support.
Straight men engaging in physical affection with their own gender can be affirming and contribute to a deeper understanding of their masculinity, femininity, or non-binary identity, regardless of their sexual preference. Such actions are one of many ways that can help individuals discover and affirm their true selves.
@BJC The forums are moderated by volunteers to make sure TOS is being followed. This helps keep arguments from spiraling out of control, for one thing. If you are curious why a moderator did A or B, feel free to ask them. Moderators in general are very patient, unlike me, who would have replaced the ban hammer with an ejector button long ago.
That said, I know some people prefer social media that is not actively moderated. Since being on the forums is not a requirement of using this site, those people might be happier just avoiding this part of the site and/or threads that are likely to annoy them.
@CharlieBear re your post to @BJC It's possible that not all flags need a response of any kind. Couldn't many just be ignored? There's a feeling they , and you, are being used to suppress alternative viewpoints.
@IronLemon The reason girl on girl has had more acceptance than male with male, is because of a difference between men and women. Men are very visually oriented. They like women. We enjoy watching them. We can picture ourselves as part of what's happening.
Women are much less visually oriented in these matters. Women have no interest in watching two males. Straight men don't either. That leaves very, very few with interest. Consequently, girl with girl has been normalized to an extent.
@LionsFan Forum flags can be dismissed without any input from a mod, though highly controversial comments will keep getting flagged. I don’t want to use a mod comment as a soap box but saying something as opinion vs fact are two different things. I don’t know someone else’s reasoning for cuddling, but a person of any sex/gender can cuddle anyone else of any sex/gender without sexual orientation being at play here. Some may disagree, but none of us can claim to be the authority on someone else’s reason for cuddling. If someone thinks it’s “gay” then that’s their opinion. But telling male cuddlers they are gay, or straight, or just here for sex (and vice-versa for female cuddlers or any sex/gender) that their sexual orientation dictates who they cuddle just isn’t ok. It’s going to cause flame wars and people will be accused of various phobias and it always seems to descend into chaos and completely overtakes the thread resulting it in getting locked.
Personally, as a fellow enthusiast on the site - not wearing my mod hat, I am afraid of being sexually assaulted by a man - I personally do not share that same fear of cuddling women for whatever reason (or other genders - which yes I know not everyone recognizes, but I do). I will cuddle men, but I don’t have it on my profile as I am worried for my own well-being. There’s trauma there, and many of us are here for healing. We are a community and should be looking out for one another. And we do not need to be told by someone else our own reasons for cuddling anyone.
Now if it is sexual for someone, then they have to be reported.
@walsh33 Yes I agree that there is nothing wrong with being gay. Though I do not agree with telling others what their own sexual orientation is because of who they choose to cuddle.
@CharlieBear Your approach puts you squarely in the role of fact checker. On many topics which get heated, outside experts disagree, yet you see things as black or white and are never wrong. I'm unaware of the books you've written or studies you've published. The same holds true for others. Give that some thought.
You are possibly aware that forum posts lead to DMs. I have received a number and I am not a top 50 poster. They all have one thing in common, they explicitly state they are AFRAID to post their input or opinion.
I appreciate your post when you do so as an ordinary member. As a Mod, not so much.
I too am afraid of some cuddlers. It isn't gender based nor is it as broad brush as your position. Yours might be interpreted as discriminatory / sexism.
My solution is avoiding high crime areas and late nights. If that is associated with a cuddler, I'm out. While I could possibly defend myself, I don't need the legal bills and drama.
I am not judging your fear. I just suggest avoidance. It's the best defensive action.
@CharlieBear - you asked me for my response. Please see LionsFans' two responses to you, which say it better than I could. The effect of over-moderation or over-flagging is that only some points of view are considered acceptable on these forums.
@LionsFan You are free to disagree with me. I am not going to go after someone for that. But I do not see this as someone merely expressing their opinion. I see it as breaking the rules and I am enforcing it to try to keep the thread on-topic. There are flags I avoid because I am uncomfortable moderating them, so I let another mod handle it. This, not so much. I don’t personally care what someone labels me as in regards to this because I know my own reason for cuddling. As for what I say as a fellow forum member, I’m doing fine in how I screen my own potential cuddle buddies.
@BJC I’m not the one flagging (though I’m not sure if that’s the impression you have), just responding to flags by other members. There are a ton of frivolous flags where people flag because they don’t personally like an opinion being expressed, and those are mostly dismissed.
Now here, the issue I have is not with the opinions being expressed, just that men are being told by someone else that their sexuality is the reason they cuddle other men and that they are not “real men” if they cuddle other men, and it’s not presented as an opinion. If it was just worded like “I think” or “I believe” then I don’t think we would be having this issue.
Interesting comment @CharlieBear
"...TONS of frivolous flags..." and "... those are MOSTLY dismissed."
This strongly suggests two needed actions to improve the forums.
First, address the folks being frivolous.
Next, change MOST to ALL.
@LionsFan There are plenty of legit flags as well. And if someone has been submitting mostly (or all) frivolous flags they are addressed privately. In this case, despite it all, no one is in trouble and no actual action has been taken minus the mod notes on comments. Unlike site reports, forum flags do not stick to anyone’s account. If I look at a profile that has been flagged a ton, there is nothing to indicate to us mods that they are a problem on the forum unless we make a note of it, which I def have not done with anyone here that has been flagged.
Edit: So no matter how much someone is flagged (even if their comment is edited), unless a mod escalates it to a site report, it doesn’t affect your account standing at all, and like I said, we don’t even see anything tracked on the site to show anyone has received a forum flag.
Edit 2: And I say mostly because sometimes, like here, I don’t edit/delete the comment but note it has been reported so hopefully it doesn’t keep getting flagged.
I have personally known straight men who have cuddled together, and I have cuddled straight men. I do believe it's not common and doesn'tget talked aboutenough, largely because it's not socially acceptable in most places to be straight and cuddle another man, but it does happen. As you would with meeting any person from any website in person, be cautious. But, just because these men identify as straight doesn't mean they have something else on their mind. It's nice to be touched and to be held.
@CharlieBear et al
Several people believe flags accumulate and result in bans.
If privately addressing frivolous flags still leaves you and us with "tons", a different approach ought to be implimented.
Attaching demerits is used by other sites. Get three, and posting privileges are suspended for a month.
Another easy option is a separate folder. Call it "Cuddle Chaos". Move posts there as needed. Require an opt-in to even read there. Eventually most controversial posts will actually take birth there, and die there. Win-win
@LionsFan I’m just a volunteer mod. I do not have any control over how the site functions or what software is used. I have very rarely issued a timeout and the only bans I recall giving are previously-banned members or someone having done something extremely serious like doxxing or posting porn to the forums. There’s probably a few other reasons that were very serious but thankfully I don’t recall at the moment. I am probably the most visible mod on here since I do leave more mod notes (though they are usually basic notes and I always include my username so you all know who addressed it). That being said, We should probably have another thread if you all want to air your grievances at me or the site because this is all off-topic for this post.
@CharlieBear - so why have you "reported" my post from yesterday? What is that supposed to mean? It rather confirms my point about overmoderation. I presume the "reporting" may be a lead up to banning me from this forum, which would certainly confirm everything I am saying.
I've been heard. Off tangent topic closed for me. Thanks for your time
@LionsFan
| Women have no interest in watching two males.
This is patently untrue. I have known women who enjoy watching man on man. Your entire comment is unsubstantiated opinion, and has no basis in fact.
You should stop assuming that there are strict gender differences. Most of the differences you believe in are the result of societal rules.
@BJC If you dislike how modding is being done here, why not volunteer to be a mod yourself? It's an awful job and pays nothing, but other than that ...
@BJC Ohhh, “reported” in that case means it was flagged by another member. Though now that you mention it, I can see why it would look like I was the one that reported it (and the others). I’ll make note of that and change my wording because that sheds your comments in an all new light for me. That’s how I was told to mod comment when I first joined the team.
Reading it that way could look like I am flagging and taking action simultaneously. In the very rare case I want action taken on a comment that isn’t already flagged (and that doesn’t need immediate attention) I flag and let another mod review it.
I think some people don't understand the difference between opinion and fact.
Also, I would argue that a certain level of responsibility should come with freedom of speech.
I do not condone censorship, but I honestly don't feel like that's being done here.
If someone came into your house and insulted your spouse and children, would you just let them? Public and private forums are not the same. There are some basic rules for how you talk to people in my house. If you violate those rules continuously, I will ask you to leave and I will not invite you over again. And there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with me not wanting to continue discourse with those who refuse to be responsible with their words in my own house.
I honestly do want to hear everyone's opinions. I am prepared to be upset at times. But don't directly insult me or my neighbors and friends. There is actually a way to state your opinion in a way that is responsible, respectful, and will lead to further, useful, productive conversation.
And let's not pretend that everyone's agenda here is to have a good faith conversation. Some people want to act out, want to blame others for their struggles, want to insult and get some kind of revenge, etc. It happens on both sides.
I know full well there are conversations that I cannot have here. Or with the general population. I know my opinions on this are not widely held or practiced. But I would also say that most people I talk to are very unsatisfied with the level of discourse we have in this day and age. And the lack of responsibility many take with their words is a huge part of the problem. And it only gives the people who want to end your freedom of speech the fuel to lobby for it. You speak irresponsibly, you will start to lose your freedoms. You just will.
@IronLemon
Thank you for your anecdote.
Is a society without rules really a society?
| Thank you for your anecdote.
You mean example that disproves your opinion.
| Is a society without rules really a society?
You mean is a society with rules different from what you were taught really a society. Yes, it is.
You seem to think only in absolutes. Everything is strict black and white. It's a very limited way of thinking. But it does explain much.
@IronLemon Please, please learn that a single anecdote doesn't end any discussion. If a blind poll were taken, you would find, for a 100 who believe as you do, a million strongly disagree.
It is you who see this as b&w. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Edit
P**nhub.com data confirms men are 72 to 76 % of their viewers
Women search many many topics. Guy on guy isn't one of them
As a gay man, platonic cuddling/comfort from another gay man is difficult to find. It feels like there’s an underlying sexual tension. I desperately seek the kind of affection and comfort from another man that’s non sexual. So I just prefer straight men to cuddle. The sexual tension isn’t there. Sexual orientation isn’t relevant to the inherent need of touch. And yes cuddling with different genders is different. But that’s the point. Each bring a different energy to the equation. And if more humanity was allowed instead of sex or social constructs I think we’d all be more relaxed as a society. So keep to your comfort and your boundaries to yourself. Don’t like something, don’t do it. But don’t pontificate about it. Maybe if your dad had hugged you and told you he loved you and was proud of you, the concept wouldn’t shake your foundation. And yes your foundation was shaken a blind sea slug can see that
After giving it some thought, I am going to remove my mod notes from the comments that were all flagged by other members of the community. Once they are gone, flag or don’t flag as you wish and I will ask another mod to handle any flags on this discussion. I will leave my other comments intact. Edit: And please understand that when we do leave mod notes indicating it has been reported and reviewed, us mods are not the ones reporting the comments. We are responding to flags by other members.
I’m not locking this healthy exchange of opinions. Another mod is free to do so.
@LionsFan posted:
"Women have no interest in watching two males."
"Women search many many topics. Guy on guy isn't one of them"
You're not a woman. I'm unaware of the books you've written or studies you've published on women.
As a woman, I can tell you, firsthand, that you are incorrect.
"Yours might be interpreted as discriminatory / sexism."
If a woman was assaulted or raped by a man, and therefore was afraid to cuddle men, would you dare to call her sexist? It's called traumatized. Men deserve the same compassion and understanding as women. @CharlieBear gave his reasoning for being careful about the men he cuddles (he never said he wouldn't cuddle men). He didn't owe you or the board a reason, but he provided a completely legitimate one that should unequivocally result in compassion, not accusations.
~ Sunset Snuggles
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Happy summer vibes! 🐬 🎹