Medical aid in dying (MAiD)

[Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)
in General

I have a friend who has just elected to use this process. My feelings surprised me because I thought I was in favor of people having this option but I don't want it to happen. Maybe just too close to home?
I notice there are eleven states that currently allow for this procedure. Just thought I would open it up for discussion.

Comments

  • JohnR1972JohnR1972

    @gem7
    My heart goes out to you and your friend being in a very difficult situation. I wish you peace and comfort in this difficult time. Please feel free to reach out to me via DM if you want to talk more.

    Just an FYI - I suspect this thread will be locked by the end of the day because it is such a sensitive and polarizing topic.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod
    edited September 2024

    We don't have MAiD here in the UK, but they do in Switzerland and that's the most recognised place for people to go from here.

    I have stage 4 cancer, as mentioned in another thread. It's not terminal and the chemotherapy is going well, but in the medium term the statistics are not in my favour. At one point halfway through the sequence of scans that led to the complete diagnosis things looked very much worse than they turned out to be, and my sister offered to 'take me to Switzerland if it comes to it'. It was a lighthearted conversation and she was joking ... except of course she wasn't. I had already thought about it and although I'm not thinking about it now - it's too far off, if it ever happens at all - MAiD is something I would consider.

    That moment was a great treat for me for a number of reasons, one of which is that it's the only time that somebody has recognised out loud the very real possibility of my death. It's a tough subject to talk about obviously, and everybody avoids it. I haven't forced anybody into a conversation because I haven't really felt the need to, but since it's something that pops into my mind from time to time I sometimes feel it would be nice to have more chances to chat about it with the people who love me. So far I think it's just too painful a topic, and sufficiently un-urgent to justify avoiding the pain.

    So, great thread!

    [For the avoidance of doubt I'm not miserable or maudlin. I'm in excellent spirits and planning for life.]

    @JohnR1972 yes I was also wondering how long the thread will survive. There's nothing wrong with the topic per se, so if everybody plays nicely we should be fine.

  • TxTomTxTom

    My thoughts on this are passionate and contradictory.

  • [Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)

    @JohnR1972 Thank you. Called my therapist for a session tomorrow.

    @CuddleDuncan So hoping the best for you.

  • JohnR1972JohnR1972

    @CuddleDuncan
    Very sorry to hear about your situation, I had not seen your previous post that you mentioned so this was the first I had heard of it.

    I’m in very good health but I am fully aware that could change literally in a heartbeat and that regardless of anyone’s current health, time will eventually catch up with all of us.

    I don’t dwell on it, but I have considered what I would do if I have advanced notice that my remaining time on this earth is rapidly approaching zero. I have committed to myself I will not spend my final days in a hospital or hospice setting.

  • JubalJubal

    If the right to one's own life has any meaning, then it must necessarily include the right to choose when to end one's own life.

    Will say more when I figure out how to say it kindly.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited September 2024

    Even if your state does not have MAiD, every state allows a Durable Power of Attorney and this simple form can transform the sticky medical situations one can find oneself in. It communicates your wishes and dictates to what extent you want heroic measures taken, when a ventilator can be removed, and what your baseline quality of life is desired before care reverts to making one comfortable. If you do not have one a hospital can keep you in a vegetative state in many instances and your loved ones will have to foot the bill.

    When I had heart surgery the hospital offered it up front and gave me guidance on things to consider. Filling it out took ten minutes but it offered me a piece of mind if things went wrong. The numbers are better now days but only 30% of people actually do this. This form defends your wishes from catastrophic financial ruin for your loved ones and unnecessary medical treatment for a terminally comatose or incapacitated outcome.

    How much can it save your family? Possibly millions. My heart procedure was 8 years ago and the total was $359,000 for a ten day stay (I had a lung collapse during surgery so there were complications). Consider today’s prices and extrapolate that out for weeks or months if things went horribly wrong.

    Many not-for-profit companies offer these forms and Legal Zoom offers them as well. If in doubt ask a local hospital as they normally have a supply of them.

  • silkyysilkyy

    Wow this is just… wow
    It’s true you never think about this stuff.
    I can’t even imagine.. I’m such a empathetic person so I know I would literally be crying at their strength to even still try…try and connect with ppl and have that human touch, energy, just shows how vital we are to eachother!! I can only imagine that the shared love..the intimacy can maybe ease up the difficulty in accepting such situation..
    Peace, love, light & prayers to anyone that may be going through this❤️

  • starrynitecudsstarrynitecuds

    Adding onto @TheFunCartel , always make sure your hospital of choice will honor your medical directives and/or anyone you have medical POA. Because not all will (ex: for religious reasons.) Moving someone to another facility then can be a difficult thing to do.

  • skyhighsugarskyhighsugar

    Death is often worse for the living than it is for the departed. I understand why you would feel this way, and it’s natural that you wouldn’t want your loved one to die in any situation or scenario. I’ve lost loved ones to suffering, cancer, organ failure, even mental illness. If at any point any of those people had made the choice to end their suffering on their terms, in a humane way for them and their autonomy, I would support them. I would love them through it. I would be upset, I wouldn’t want to say goodbye, but I wouldn’t want their final moments whether days or weeks or months or years - to be prolonged with suffering. I wish nothing but peace for my loved ones, even in the final stages of life and beyond. That is the greatest act of love in my opinion, to want the very best for someone even if it is hard or painful for myself. I would want someone to treat me in the same manner. Hugs 🥰

  • [Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)

    @skyhighsugar Very thoughtful remarks. Thanks for sharing.

  • [Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)

    @TheFunCartel Good information to have. I have passed it off to friends.

  • [Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)

    @starrynitecuds I never thought of checking with local hospitals. Good point.

  • Gwynne42Gwynne42

    To clarify legal documents - Durable Power of Attorney to allow 3rd party to handle legal and financial matters, Healthcare Power of Attorney to allow 3rd party to make medical decisions. Living Will to specify how YOU want to have medical decisions handled. It will specify multiple scenarios about withholding water, food, resuscitation, pain medication. All three stop the moment you pass. You cannot use a POA after death for signing checks or paying bills. Most people do not realize this. Lastly, HIPAA to authorize others to ask about your medical situation. Individual doctors and hospitals usually include in admission paperwork.

    I highly recommend that people look at the various "Family Love Letters" available online. Before a person is incapacitated, they can use the thought provoking questions to provide answers loved ones will need. Contact info for attorney, insurance, investments, where you keep important documents, who owes money to you or who do you owe, list of assets, that you keep hidden cash in the dictionary. I am still finding assets that were turned over to the state from my in-laws estates. Savings accounts they forgot about. Property left to them in other states by relatives.

    On a personal note, I have been with 4 loved ones as they passed. Two were sweet and tender times surrounded by love, but two were filled with suffering. I was placed in the position to make decisions that had no good answer and added to guilt, grief and stress. Oh how I wished I could have asked them what they wanted. That is why a Healthcare POA alone can be an almost cruel thing to do to a loved one. The Living Will relies on doctors to carry out your wishes when there is no medical hope.

    Last year, I was told I had a softball size ovarian tumor that the ER doctor said was almost always terminal cancer. Leaving the ER that day, I was confronted with the "probability " of my own death. For a couple weeks until I saw the oncologist, I believed my time was short. It turns out it was benign, but it was a gift to help me realize the true priorities of life and cuddling those you love.

  • JohnR1972JohnR1972

    @Gwynne42
    Thank you for sharing all of that. Your advice and insights, both professional and personal, are very helpful for a lot of people (myself included).

  • Gwynne42Gwynne42

    In the case of my wrong diagnosis, a Living Will can also specify that 2 or 3 doctors must agree.

  • Gwynne42Gwynne42

    One more thing came to mind. When a person dies in the U.S., some assets pass by contract (ex: IRA or life insurance that specifies a beneficiary). Everything else must go through probate. Since many people only have houses, cars, bank accounts and/or brokerage accounts, you can avoid the time and expense of probate by adding "transfer on death" or "payable on death" to the registration so that those assets pass by contract too.

    Example: if you die, you want your checking account to go to your sister. Ask the bank to change the account from your name only to "you name TOD your sister".

    You should review your beneficiaries periodically and make sure to discuss with an attorney if you have a will that provides for a trust. Legal aid will often answer those questions if you cannot afford an attorney. Also most attorneys will provide a brief consultation for free to decide whether you are a good fit.

  • Gwynne42Gwynne42

    @gem7 When my mentor, boss, and dearest friend was diagnosed with lung cancer and given 3 months to live, he gave me this book. I went to his home every day on my way home from work to sit with him and his wife to talk through our grief or fond memories and to bring us closure together. It was the final gift he gave me...allowing me to walk that last mile together. My thoughts are with you and all here who are facing similar situations.

    My husband has dementia and parkinsons. Your thread obviously hit home. I wish I could cuddle you and your friend. ~ G

    8 Life Lessons From Bestseller “Tuesdays with Morrie” https://medium.com/@bonijankova/8-life-lessons-from-bestseller-tuesdays-with-morrie-4d9be60d4301

  • [Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)

    @Gwynne42 Thank you for all the good information and kind words. Best wishes

  • starrynitecudsstarrynitecuds

    Definitely keep the medical POA updated, but facilities may refuse them and insist on their own being used. Make sure you keep copies and give to anyone who may be involved, including your lawyer. Putting assets into a revocable living trust (that has incompetency criteria spelled out) before dying can help avoid probate and allows you to designate your successor trustees and executor (most courts will abide by those wishes.) A family lawyer can help protect all that, including the POAs and a will for anything that's slipped thru the cracks.
    (I know someone who bypassed probating his father's self-created will through the court and is now being sued by his dad's wife, who dad stupidly never divorced. His mom and dad were never married and "common law" doesn't apply here. The wife never signed off his retirement accounts or assets and was left completely out of the will. This guy knew about her, but figured she wasn't Dad's wife once Dad died. There are procedures for a reason.)

  • Vocalist100Vocalist100

    Everyone dies. The best thing in life is to be able to choose how you leave it.

  • [Deleted User]gem7 (deleted user)

    Update: My friend died yesterday the way she wanted. I swear she had a smile on her face. Maybe not, but I will choose to remember her that way.

  • jmdankjmdank

    I have severe health anxiety and I think about dying constantly, I have some chronic illnesses and personally feel that people that are in chronic pain should be able to choose when and how they die. Due to my anxiety I feel I don't have long to live even though I've been saying that for most of my life, I feel it is true.

  • jmdankjmdank

    @gem7
    I think it's great that they were able to go out on their terms!

  • IneedahugortwoIneedahugortwo

    @gem7 I’m sorry for the loss of your friend. Sending a virtual hug.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @gem7 Sorry for your loss but I love your outlook. Not even Microsoft can stop it.

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