I always wonder why people get so in-sensed on what others choose to recognize . It's ole people being upset by what others eat or choose to eat. Anyway, i guess not going along with dominant society always seems to be wrong, until they go along with it. It happens to be Tuesday or as i like to call it the day offer Monday or the day before Wednesday, argue with ya mamie.
@BashfulLoner What do you consider “dominant society”? Is latex and a whip requisite attire?
I’m all for civil discourse.
And I’m all for calling out atrocity, which I’m doing, here in the thread about indigenous people.
From yesterday’s USA Today...
“Columbus cut off the hands of approximately 10,000 natives in Haiti and the Dominican Republic because they failed to provide gold every three months.”
@MonkeyNeedsAHug i would invite you to read this article https://orderisda.org/culture/stories/dont-scapegoat-columbus/
In addition, if 10,000 hands were cut off wouldn’t there be skeletal remains showing this?
@lonelytauros I read the entire article and believe it has merit. Seems to be other supporting writings also.
I think it is hilarious that Americans expend so much energy on a guy that started the trans-Atlantic slave trade, yet never stepped foot or even came close to being on American soil.
@TheFunCartel We spend a lot of energy on him? And he started the trans-Atlantic slave trade? He certainly made it possible, but started it?
And never "even came close to being on American soil"? I'm not sure how you define "close," but I think 90 miles is pretty close, all things considered.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFHmqpQu/
@jimmylee he absolutely started it he grabbed the first traffic them across the Atlantic. I mean he discover sex trafficking obviously
but I think 90 miles is pretty close, all things considered.
They had to sail so 90 miles isn’t that close. Can’t even see land from that far. Fact is he had nothing to do with present day USA.
And he started the trans-Atlantic slave trade?
If you are going to credit Columbus with “discovering” and being first to a “New World” then the fact that he says he lists slaves in his letter to the King of Spain kind of makes the assertion of being the first Trans-Atlantic slave trader plausible. If you are the first, then you are the first. Unless you just want to cherry pick what he was first on.
Seems to be other supporting writings also.
I think you need to check the “organizations” and authors that create these books.
@TheFunCartel I checked out Mary Grabar, Carol Delaney and Samuel Morrison before I posted my comment.
More -isms from the usual suspects.
This time, presentism: Judging historical figures and their world by today's moral standards.
White washing from the usual suspects as well.
@BashfulLoner
I always wonder why people get so in-sensed on what others choose to recognize . It's ole people being upset by what others eat or choose to eat. Anyway, i guess not going along with dominant society always seems to be wrong, until they go along with it.
You think it's bad now, just wait until December. Or more actually, the day after Thanksgiving, and probably a few weeks before that.
I believe there are scholars that have different views on this subject. People that have researched and studied this topic to great lengths yet have come up with different view points. So what to do. I am going to a local brewpub and start this conversation. I know exactly who to get fired up over this.
@TheFunCartel i think your point of discovery is valid and the mention of him discovering the new world is silly, as people inhabited the land and others visited before. That's just an argument of what discovery is and what it means in the context. But when i say it as being the first to realize he could do something with people in a manner that has never been done before us what i refer to as discovery. To realize that people could be forced into servitude happened long before him. But to realize they can be captured and transported to a lifetime if service was very new. The fact that they'd be separated from all that they were, language, culture and the hope of any rescue or support is definitely a discovery of inhumanity that led to many other evils that the countries that eventually benefited and embraced it was a discovery. For sure.
@BashfulLoner Removing people from their homeland and forced into slavery in a foreign place was new? You might want to go back a few millennia and tell the Israelites that. (Just to mention one group)
Also, the first African slaves in the "new world" did not arrive until after Columbus's death. The would be quite the feat to pull off from the grave.
@jimmylee seperation by the sea was different than anything documented at least not within walking distance. I also did not refer to enslaved people from Africa, i referred to the people that were enslaved and taken from Hispaniola with Columbo in which he was imprisoned for.
@BashfulLoner you are right, you did not. Since your comments were directed to TheFunCartel, and he had referenced the Transatlantic slave trade, so that's where my head was. My apologies.
No need to apologize, i probably shouldn't have got involved i really have no interest in this topic. I've learned enough about it and right or wrong i have my ideas of the entire subject i am sure many wouldn't agree with and that's fine. I will always stand for life and liberty and with the oppressed people in any instance of past present or future. Right or wrong makes little difference to me.
@BashfulLoner I can appreciate your position. I was not looking to make a moral value or get into a discussion about the moral ramifications of the above events. I'm a History professor and simply desire to "have the facts right," to the best of our ability.
Fair. I am not even a good history student lol , i just believe i have 20/20 observations of past events some times supported and vetted and sometimes judge by observations I've read in various places. In other words i dont know much.
@BashfulLoner hey, at least you're reading. Just be discerning in your reading (I know you already know this).
@lonelytauros
You’re referring me to an article that claims that “It was never in Columbus’ heart to brutalize, rape, or, as some people have accused him of, creating purposeful genocide.” It goes on to describe Columbus as a pious man.
I’m sorry. But this portrayal of Columbus is false.
When I lived in South America and studied Latin-American literature there, I read the very letters this author claims Howard Zinn misrepresented.
In those Letters, Columbus describes the VAST riches of the new world in one breath and in the next, describes how simple it would be to subjugate the natives and take (everything) from them by force. He even offered an estimate of how many men, “with steel” he would need in order to do so.
He wasn’t speaking in hypotheticals. He was saying, in flowery language, “the people here don’t have swords. Give me 50 armed men, and I will wreck them and take their💩 in the name of Spain.”
🙊
@gem7
❤️❤️❤️
Not intended to create conflict, just for humor.
Flagged and reviewed. Removing image. [CharlieBear]
I don't see the humor there, unless we're supposed to laugh at someone being a horrible person.
^ lol
@wilderdude Please explain the joke.