@Ripley54566 All this time you've been saying you don't care about people. Now you say you care deeply about people. Which claim is true and which claim is a lie? Going by everything you said in this thread, the first claim is definitely true.
@IronLemon
I don't think I ever explicitly said I didn't care about people.
"I simply just don't see any personal benefit to being kind or considerate to others or how they feel. There isn't any desire within me to have people like or care about me like there is in most people, and I don't care at all whether or not people love or hate me. This mindset has led me to being secure and happy with myself for the most part."
Are you referring to this? I said I don't feel the need to be kind or nice to people. I never said I didn't care.
@Ripley54566 That looks a lot like being a very uncaring person to me. I guess that's worse since that's a deliberate choice.
@IronLemon It sounds to me that you would rather believe what you want to believe about me instead of trying to understand the truth.
That is fine. As someone told me in a pm earlier, "I feel it would be simpler for me to parse Ulysses in one sitting than to understand you."
@Ripley54566 Care ...
@GuyverGordon
I generally don't equate niceness with goodness, if that helps clear things up.
And being kind or nice to people doesn't always mean you care.
@Ripley54566 When I started here, I was very touch averse. I hadn’t really been hurt by anyone because I was always too scared and anxious to try a relationship. I have met many enthusiasts and pros here, and on the topic of pros, I have made some incredible friends.
Some are in relationships and they do cuddle for additional income. I would not expect them to cuddle me for free after becoming friends because they want to keep the very intimate parts of cuddling reserved for their partners. That doesn’t mean they don’t care. I have gone on trips with pros and hung out doing non-cuddle things like eating out/hanging out at their place, etc and that hasn’t cost me a dime. We are truly, genuinely friends.
There are, of course, pros on here that will be completely fake and care only about money, and really they don’t end up getting much clients as a result (not always though 🥺). And of course the ones looking to earn money by breaking the rules by offering sexual services or outright scamming people. These are the pros we need to remove from the site immediately.
You may have some personal trauma that caused you to keep people at a distance, and there are bad actors on here who are not here for the right reasons looking to take advantage of those of us that are vulnerable, but please try not to fall into the mindset that pros here only care about money. It is a way for them to earn money, yes, but that doesn’t mean they do not care.
Edit: Also, me becoming friends, and them cuddling for free in some instances, this has happened before I became a moderator. Of course I need to be careful now in case someone wants to use me to become protected from action being taken against them (though I am very clear that once we cuddle I am no longer a mod to them. If they are reported I cannot/will not try to sweep anything under the rug if reported. Just ask any other mod since we remove ourselves from those reports since that would be a gross abuse of power).
@Ripley54566
I hope you and your Dad are getting through his health issues as best you can. Cancer can be tough on everyone.
Here is my suggestion.
You got your money back-so you know the Pro is legitimate.
Message her again-Put the past behind you and schedule another cuddle session with her. You can decide whether an apology is in order-but at the very least - an agreement that things could have been handled better
You are both dealing with similar challenges and could comfort each other.
Yes-Cuddling cost money unless you can find an enthusiast-but you paid a Pro-so you know the reality of cuddling for guys.
Do this and it is a win for you and the Pro- you will feel better and leave the negativity behind.
Report back to us with how the session went so we can all rejoice with you.
@CharlieBear
I agree. I think a lot of pros do care. I think a lot of them are good people. I don't think I ever said anything bad about pros as people. I never said pros were bad people who cared only about money. My criticism wasn't meant to be directed at pros.
But I think Professional Cuddling is a morally dubious practice. I think it is predatory in nature. Intentional or not, pros are, in my opinion, not doing the right thing by practicing it. They are making morally questionable choices here and I think that deserves to be criticized.
It's taken me a long time to come to this conclusion, and I've met many pros over the years. So it's going to take a lot to change my mind, if that is at all possible.
@BrianOcean
I did message her, and I apologized for my behavior.
I'm not going to ask anything else of her.
@Ripley54566 There are pros that are not good people and only care about money. We get a lot of reports of scammers, so that criticism is valid in those cases. This is very unfortunate and they make everyone else look bad. But as a whole, that is not the case.
Also, the transactional nature of it is sometimes exactly what the client wants as well. They want to hire someone to help them fulfill their platonic touch needs with zero attachment. They aren’t looking for a friend, and that is fine. There are so many reason one cuddles, even as a pro. I don’t have to try to change your mind, I just don’t want them to be criticized based on your assumption on why they are doing it. (That is, unless they are scammers. Then by all means…though that criticism is much better suited in a report against them).
@CharlieBear I think most pros are doing this because they want to help people.
But I think their actions are inevitably hurting people. The reasons for why a person would pay to cuddle someone are almost always better off addressed in therapy. Whether this is due to lack of confidence, shyness, low self esteem, etc.
Professional Cuddling enables people to "get their fix" without actually addressing the problems a person has at the root. It enables people to stay unhealthy and unfulfilled rather than heal whatever issues they may have to find actual unconditional affection through legitimate means.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Is just the way I see it.
I'm not going to criticize them. But I prefer to give my honest opinion if I am asked directly.
Professional Cuddling enables people to "get their fix" without actually addressing the problems a person has at the root.
It allows people to do that, but it doesn't force them to.
I came to this site with root issues, and systematically worked on those issues while cuddling helped relieve enough of the pain to make that work possible.
There are few moral absolutes in this world, and I think we tend to find what we are looking for even if we aren't consciously aware of what that is.
@Ripley54566 Therapists and pro cuddlers fill very different roles. It would be a serious breach of ethics for a therapist to cuddle with a patient.
And you're being very judgemental about people you don't know and refuse to listen to.
It seems like all your opinions are based on other unsubstantiated opinions. Along with some rather creative interpretations of words, so in your mind you're always right.
@JoyfulHeart
If someone is an alcoholic, shouldn't people be made aware before offering them a drink?
If they are aware that they are an alcoholic, but still offer them that drink, is that not a bit morally apprehensive?
You technically aren't forcing them to drink it in either situation. But aren't you still enabling the bad behavior that is ruining their life?
@IronLemon I have never once said anything in this thread that was an attack on anyone as a person, despite recieving so much of the same from you and many of the pros and enthusiasts here. I have never once judged you or anyone else as a person.
I have only ever criticized the actions of others, perhaps a bit too coldly at times I'll admit, and I have told people who I am as a person, and have been open about it..
And I have recieved so much hate because of it. Being called a sociopath, liar, narcissist. someone who inflicts trauma upon pros intentionally etc. But none of this has been true.
I do not need to go to a therapist for my touch aversion because thanks to this site, I am no longer tough averse. The issues I do have in regards to anxiety/depression are not solved from cuddling. While I am not an alcoholic, I have been somewhat adjacent to that being an overeater (which I only say because I have attended overeaters anonymous meetings which use the same book that is used in AA). I understand what going to therapy is like, and what I am getting out of cuddling is not something I could get out of a therapy session and the pro cuddlers here have helped me WAY more with my confidence and self-worth than any therapist has.
Also this is ignoring a myriad of other reasons why people seek out pros. It’s not all due to some personal trauma. Many people here simply are not able to get their touch needs met from their partners and turn here for that. Some just want companionship or to simply be held. You cannot expect people to freely put their safety at risk doing this for strangers, or sacrificing their time to do it. It can also be very difficult and awkward to have a friend or family member provide that. We are not all fortunate enough to have people throw themselves at us to cuddle for free. Maybe you do, and I am very envious if so, but I don’t.
@Ripley54566 No, you haven't attacked individual people, you've just insulted, belittled, and been dismissive of groups of people. That's completely different, right? (sarcasm)
I haven't attacked you, nor have I seen anyone attack you. I and other people have just been expressing honest opinions of you based on what you've said.
But I guess at least you seem to have dropped the idea that a therapist can fill the role of a pro cuddler.
@CharlieBear I'm going to ask you something that I always ask myself because I think that it may help you.
Is this the life you want? The life you want is the life you deserve.
Have you given up on the life you deserve? Have you settled? Really think about this.
It took me several tries to find the right therapist. Eventually I found that EDMR was the right answer for me, though everyone is different.
A big step about healing is coming out and saying the kind of person you are, warts and all. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't accepting of this so it can be easier to put up a facade.
@IronLemon I'm no longer going to be responding to what you say. This isn't an attack on you personally, I just feel like arguing with you isn't going to produce anything of value to me.
@Ripley54566 What is "of value to you" about this ongoing discord? What is your continued purpose in responding? What are you trying to achieve?
@Gwynne42 I am engaging in discussion, like I said earlier. I think discussion is healthy, especially with people you don't agree with. Discussions are important.
Even if these things can cause discord. Especially if these things cause discord.
Discord isn't bad. It can actually be good. It can create ripples in the water that has become stagnant and create change. Change is good, but it can also be very uncomfortable for some people.
I am even wondering why you cuddle at all if you see is as inevitably inflicting harm. If you are indeed harmed, rebuked and misunderstood and EMDR is helping you, then you have the freedom to leave this community. If you are here simply to bring discord, I am certain it is OF VALUE to many of us here in this community who are in complete harmony for you to go find another community where you may be a better fit.
@Gwynne42 Nope. I'm staying here as long as I feel like it and as long as I can. Sorry
Our community is not stagnant. It is as my cuddle yesterday said...this is exactly what I did not know I needed".
@Gwynne42 You always ignore this thread if you don't like it.
@Ripley54566 I want my life to be better than it currently is, and I am putting in the effort I feel I need to change it. Some areas I need to address are not anything I am attempting to solve with cuddling, and I am using cuddling for the areas where cuddling specifically can help (and it has been, wonderfully). Those other areas I mentioned, I am perfectly fine being honest about them with the appropriate people, though I would not be that vulnerable in a publicly-accessible forum like this.
@CharlieBear You never have to talk about anything you don't want to.
At this point I am going to call it how I see it ...
This whole thread is very very interesting to me. You are a very interesting person, I have never heard of anyone like you before. If I'm being completely honest, I'm fascinated right now.