Incels and Cuddling?

Comments

• StarCaptSilas (deleted user)

  August 2018

  Hoo boy. I've been keeping tabs on the Incel Community for a long time and there for sure is a lot to uncover. There are things that attribute to the mindset--PUA culture, the idea of what a "real man" is and so forth. Incels are the extreme of "nice guys", thinking that women (and for female incels, men) owe them sex. To be an incel is a depressing and sometimes dangerous mindset--especially if one has taken the fatalised "Black Pill" (which is the idea that there is no hope for you whatsoever to have sex). Some go as far as saying that all women deserve to be raped.

  Fun fact (and I say this in all morbidity): The Incels call Elliot Roger the "Incel Messiah". Just to give you a look into the mind of an Incel. It's a dangerous, dangerous community.

  Check this out for a little more information. You can fast forward through the first bit, but the gang over at Last Podcast on the Left speak with someone who directed the "Sad Boys" documentary on Incels:

  https://player.fm/series/last-podcast-on-the-left/side-stories-earons-incels

  P.S. Perhaps platonic cuddling is something that they need. They get that physical touch that they crave and it boosts their confidence and it could pull them out of that mindset. Do more digging and research and come to a conclusion but definitely approach with caution.
• deefine

  August 2018 edited August 2018

  I guess being an older guy before this incel phenomenon (which seems to be an American thing), I'm just going to say I see it spawning from a culture that is less tolerant of people's differences, more focused on celebrity/sports culture/looks/behavior, and which ostracizes people even to the point of harmful bullying and seclusion/delusion for being below whatever bar of looks/performance in sports or current social rules, with little forgiveness or openness to letting people back into the flock or helping them re-integrate with some tolerance.

  I just can't completely blame incel's out-of-touch behavior on them alone (though I'm pretty sure some of them know very well what's going on and just hate the world or women or whatever), as I see other cultures like in Britain or a lot of European countries similar to America (through documentaries and YouTubers really) far more accepting of people's differences and far less focused on looks and sports performance. Yes I have known people from other countries and in person as well they simply seem more accepting of people's differences and less concerned about looks (though more concerned about what people do).

  I don't know if this is a genetic thing, or an American culture thing, but I'm not aware of this phenomenon happening often or much in past decades, maybe before the 80's, I don't know, maybe it's a video game addiction thing, or the parents spoiling and sheltering the children, or them just being so bullied that they're unable to get a good view of the world. I don't believe people generally are born as incels, but all basically with the same desire to have good things and do good things until they're pushed to the point of resentment, hatred, and delusion.

  So I kind of blame American society for this, on many fronts; the media, over-protective/paranoid culture, and the desire to be "#1"/winning all the time has left people to slip through the cracks and fester in the dregs where their only outlet is online volatility. Maybe we should consider trying to help some of these people re-integrate into society and allow some acceptance for their flaws like SnugglewithSam is saying is happening with some she's known, and which I've seen from others as well as with myself, rather than further sling arrows at their plight like a dog backed into a corner. Nobody saved a soul by attacking them.

  BTW: When I am "cel" it generally has not been "in" but "vol" (and I'm relationship-cel right now for a few reasons), as I get a little OCD/ADD with projects/hobbies sometimes which causes me to neglect certain things in typical relationships (and I don't like arbitrary societal rules, which is why I'm here haha). My 2 centz
• BlueIris Mod

  August 2018 edited August 2018

  I doubt that platonic cuddling is what they need if they define themselves as involuntarily celibate. Platonic cuddling with an incel -- someone with a lot of pent-up sexual frustration, rage and entitlement -- sounds to me like a powder keg waiting to be ignited.
• UKGuy

  August 2018 edited August 2018

  I'd never heard of the term 'incel' until you mentioned it. There seems to be a trend toward people self-identifying themselves as part of an invented sub-culture. Whether this is a good thing or not I don't know, but I assume these sub-cultures have little or no scientific basis, so I'd imagine trying to diagnose or treat their perceived afflictions could be very problematic. In my opinion, these people should be seeing a professional therapist to deal with their individual problems.
• MichaelFJudd (deleted user)

  August 2018 edited August 2018

  As a really lonely guy, I actually checked them out and considered joining them. But once I looked at their forums, I saw some of the most extreme racism, homophobia and misogyny that I had ever seen and I immediately left (no, I'm not SJW - this was outright bigotry to the extreme).

  They were complaining about some "ugly [dark-skinned person] getting a girlfriend while I'm still single", and one of them even was posting gleefully about an act of violence he saw committed against a woman. I'm not saying that all incels are like that (I don't know), but the attitudes that I saw were very off-putting.

  And I agree with @BlueIris - they seem quite dangerous to a platonic cuddling community like this one.
• pmvines

  August 2018

  Seems the risk of outburst and retaliation from a potentially unstable person experiencing rejection is enough reason to not feel comfortable with their presence on here
• SnugglewithSam

  August 2018

  I want to make something clear: I am not suggesting that we invite them into our community. In fact, the way they talk online would get them banned in seconds.

  I am also not suggesting anyone overlook other treatment options in favor of cuddling. In general, I'm a fan of cuddling as an addition to therapy but not a replacement.

  I am more curious on people's take on incels and cuddling as a whole are.
• galowglass (deleted user)

  August 2018

  I don't get much beyond the compassion. Cuddling / human contact is such a basic need. I don't think it is something that should ever be "denied" to someone.

  Beyond that, you are talking about a subset of humanity (incel), who have within their set, a wide range of behaviours and beliefs, that may or may not apply to everyone, or to the same degree.

  • If anyone, including an incel, stood to benefit from a cuddle, then I'm all for it.
  • But if you start talking about all the variance, with regards to safety, then you have to discuss when/if/how judgements are made and that's a topic the whole country is already struggling with. (now quick or easy solutions).
  • If there were some kind of "program" that were to facilitate this specific situation, you would be creating a whole burachratic (can't spell) infrastructure and that sounds like a mess.
  • Using a "website such as this one", to try to regulate and or protect a situation, is fraught with risks and liability issues.
  • Education seems to be a self-empowering tool. There is a lot of opportunity, depending on "cuddling culture's" future growth.

  On the topic of eduction:

  • Basic cuddle-therapy techniques, the kind you might take in a vocational program.
  • Certifications and licensing like there exists in the theraputic bodywork/massage industry.
  • Continuing ed that could focus on topics like working with Incel, psych topics and other resources.
  • etc

  Another topic I haven't seen discussed here are services that I'm sure some of you want to steer around, but they are still valid. Specifically, there are 3rd-party, independant services that will do basic identity and employment verification. Using a service like that would allow professional cuddlers and also clients the ability to submit their information to a 3rd party. Then they can share that profile with a service provider. It basically allow you to have your identity, employment and/or other levels-of-trust. But you don't have to give all your personal data to a fellow cuddler. just a refernce to your profile. something like that.

  Just my 2-cents-worth.
• CuddleStella

  August 2018

  I get the sense of compassion, even for folks who are far from being deemed to be safe (with the racism, heavy sexism, and rape mentions). The conversation reminds me of how folks were trying to pin sex workers on incels saying that if sex workers essentially slept with them, incels will eventually no longer be. The problem with that is pinning sex workers as the solution as if they are throw-away women/folks who are more purposeful if they fulfill the purpose of engaging with an incel so no other woman, man, or child would have to. I'm giving a very generalize synopsis of this conversation that has been had in online communities and articles shared, but this conversation reminded me of that.

  Cuddling, human touch and connection is something that everyone can definitely benefit from and without it, we already know first had that it can cause some bad effects. I've help folks who with after a couple of sessions have found themselves in a much better state in their lives compared to when they hadn't had sessions before.

  Not sure if that's all they would need to come out of a lot of pent-up frustration, but it would take a lot of patience and proper facilitation to ensure that no one is coming out harmed or negatively affected while helping someone who is already in distress, in a negative mindset, set not to get any help, or maybe just outright dangerous. I think with anything and anyone, this is always something to think about prior to looking into helping anybody. This falls under anybody looking to help via talk therapy or cuddling.
• pmvines

  August 2018 edited August 2018

  Seems like a more extreme form of the whole MGTOW thing, in that they both seem to be born from a certain level of frustration and resentment
• curiousgeorge1 (deleted user)

  August 2018

  I see all the acronyms and dont really get, them. I am not so up on them. But I am celibate, but I have zero hatred of women. I think that trying to be always on the prowl for a woman is superficial. So I look at this way, if it happens it happens but I am not going to go asking every woman I meet out. When i was younger, I pushed dating off and always was like that is something later. I prefer friendship to romance anyday.
• mickcuddle

  August 2018

  I’ve followed this string a little, and poked around online, but I’ve no idea whether I’ve ever met a man who claims to be incel, nor a man who doesn’t attract sexual attention who would join a club of other guys in the same boat. Maybe I’m too boomer to get it.
• Catloaf

  August 2018 edited August 2018

  Platonic cuddling isn't what all of them need. Some have been indoctrinated into this toxic outlook on human interaction and social dynamics past the point of no return, sadly. Those who are just dipping their toes in the water may be less hesitant to try it, but platonic cuddling, nevermind in the professional realm, has been looked down upon in the MGTOW community, which is what @pmvines was referring to. MGTOW is a separate movement, but much of the same sentiments...incels are like the extreme form of that, but I imagine that if a hardcore MGTOW had this to say about professional cuddling (please do not click the link if you get really upset at the most disgusting and vapid forms of blatant sexism; not condoning it, just warning others), the incels wouldn't take much of a different stance. The ones who fully believe in these mindsets would likely believe that cuddling is a woman or man's way of torturing, friendzoning, or insulting them because it doesn't need to progress to sex, which is something they secretly want deep down.