There is Willful ignorance , then there is Graceful ignorance. Put them together and you have a hell of a sitcom
@mauvefox exactly! 😃
@Huggycatbear The challenge with trying to play mediator is that it can unintentionally slide into tone policing or toxic positivity — and in doing so, end up minimizing very real, well-documented harm that people have experienced.
When marginalized groups speak up and say "this system has hurt me and people like me," a response of "but that wasn't me!" — however genuine — tends to land as dismissive, even if that's not the intent. Someone sharing a painful experience isn't erasing your positive ones, nor minimizing your own trials. If you're not one of the people who caused the harm, then the statement isn't directed at you — it's an invitation to listen, not defend.
Statistics describe patterns of behavior across populations. Outliers exist, absolutely — but dismissing group-level concerns because you don't fit the pattern is its own kind of logical gap.
And the desire to keep the peace is understandable, genuinely. But peace-seeking that requires the harmed party to be quieter or softer isn't neutrality — it's asking them to make their pain more palatable. That's the dynamic we've been calling willful ignorance: filtering out voices based on how they speak rather than what they're saying.
My go to answer is to address things directly.
But, sometimes that doesn't work so well. Because the other person may feel guilty and lash out. Or they get defensive. Which someone getting defensive is okay. It gives a turnaround time for things to sink in from both parties, if say a conflict arises.
So there are times I go the @Jubal route. And I do my best not to judge them, and let them have their say. And just move on.
I think it can be complicated to ever try to apply a general rule to how someone affects you, and how you might react to it. So I try to do it more on a case by case basis.
@cuddlefaery Once again, I prefer to steer from groupings. I would like to kindly take it to more personal interactions as I don't want to tread on politics. I do not want to feed into ideologies as I have my own belief systems that are individual to my core values and I have a spirit guide that is nurturing and communicates to me directly. She is not of any organized religion or any grouping. I stand alone with her.
I have personally been ostracized in a lot of aspects of my life for the reason that I carry a deep well inside of me. When I have tried to express myself, people would bully, steer clear, be dismissive, make fun of me, or expect me to stay in a certain box or lane so that I can remain bite-sized to their understanding. People don't want to be patient in getting to know someone and that we are all multi-dimensional beings. We are more than our listed groupings in my humble opinion. Not to take away from its importance in association.
This big part of me yearns for connection and expression. I am now able to find the means of connection that I seek. And expression without fear or social anxiety, which dominated me as an empath.
I am not mediator, nor do I play that. I am not here to solve people's troubles. I am here to hear stories and share my own. What people pick and choose as helpful or harmful is up to them. I know I won't rub everyone the wrong way, nor the right way.
This is the current expression of myself that is constantly learning.
@Huggycatbear I was speaking in generalities — differing opinions between groups rather than any specific situation.
What scenarios did you have in mind where ignorance comes up outside of that context?
@mauvefox 🤣🤣🤣 Yup. And it’s not a new phenomena. You can go back years on the site and it would be the same.
@cuddlefaery An example of a personal interaction would be maybe someone said something that triggered something within you based off your personal trauma. How would you address it?
What if they did it again and didn't meant to do it?
I know the answer for many with ignorance is education.
That is the what.
I would love experiences on the how. There are people who could be family members or close friends or girlfriend/boyfriend where you might have to take that into account in informing them.
@Huggycatbear The problem with steering away from groupings is that when people treat your identity as an ideology, your personal interactions become seen as being political.
@IronicMaiden I personally believe our government has weaponized groupings to turn them against each other in order to keep us conquered as a whole. And now people don't have the nuance to understand that we are all a part of a larger group of humans. It's just this tribal warfare.
I have two gay friends that don't agree with the definition of what gay is in society. I have gay friends that don't even want it to be a part of their identity, because they are also ace. Or because it has been politicized and weaponized in so many ways.
I understand that you are trans.
When I had conversations with you in DMs, it was never about your group identity. Because I am interested in knowing you as a person. I do not see you as one thing or another. It's your personality and quips that brought my interest.
I have heard all the group talk ad nauseum.
And I am tired of hearing about it.
That's one component in why the individual matters to me more.
If that doesn't fit in with people's perspectives on this platform, I accept that. But that is where I am with it.
I also do not like statistics and generalities. Because that is what has led to people being marginalized in the past. And that is what creates marginalized groups in the future. People without a voice.
@IronicMaiden 💯
Ok, @Huggycatbear , an example:
I have been no-contact with my dad for over 2 years now because of his willful ignorance not being worth my own mental & emotional peace. I know he loves me, I know he generally means well, but his continued insistence on minimizing my mental and physical health struggles got to be too much. I tried providing info to him, answered his questions, repeatedly asked him to respect personal boundaries. It didn't matter what we were discussing - he'd make a point to bring up my health and lecture me, asking the same questions repeatedly that had already been answered dozens of times over months/years. His behavior showed me that him being right and not challenging his beliefs was more important to him than our relationship or my health. So I did the only steps left to me: first I put up a hard boundary on what topics I would discuss with him, and when he continued to disrespect my wishes I stopped speaking with him entirely.
Tl;dr: when my dad showed ignorance, I provided info and tried to educate him. When he pointedly ignored that information in an act of willful ignorance, it damaged our relationship until the point of no contact for 2+ years now.
@cuddlefaery Thank you for sharing. I'm so sorry and that is so difficult when it's someone of your blood. I've had a similar situation with my mother. She takes no accountability and blames everyone else for our family falling apart even though she tried to commit suicide in front of me twice, once when I was 10.
I think that is what I want to get at. Is how we can come together and talk about any sort of way to communicate and address how someone might be hurting us whether they don't know it, or willfully deny wanting to know it like in your situation.
People answer education to ignorance, but as you show it here, trying to educate someone can be complicated.
@TheFunCartel
Too true and don’t I know it.
It’s amazing how someone can be presented with facts and then disregard them because they are facts?
And some of us don’t have the luxury of having information fatigue or being tired of hearing about something. Unfortunately this is our day to day lives.
But ah. Ignorance is bliss they say.
@Huggycatbear the only thing we can do when faced with willful ignorance that negatively impacts us and our relationships is to maintain and enforce boundaries. Boundaries aren't rules we set upon other people: they're guidelines defining how we wish to be treated, where we end and others begin, and dictate our own behavior as a result.
So we can do something like:
@Huggycatbear The initial example I provided was something that happened here not too long ago. You may be tired of hearing about it, but I have no choice but to live it. If you want examples of willful ignorance that don't hurt people, especially when all some people can see is the group, they're not going to be easy to find.
You seem to be trying to dance around this.
I asked my friend which was the greater evil, ignorance or apathy. He said he didn’t know and didn’t care.I thought that was a clever response. But we aren’t friends any more.
Depends on the person. If they are being rude and or irrelevant to me, I choose to not engage.
@IronicMaiden I'm not dancing around anything. I've been direct in all my conversations on this forum, including this one.
People approach another's percieved ignorance with the need to inform. But in especially of internet society, people use information from an ideological lens to bully, or cudgel others into submission. This ironcially marginalizes someone's viewpoint, if it exists outside of what is considered the norm.
They use statistics and generalizations to define a group of people that may share an aspect in said group, but have very different experiences and viewpoints of their own group. Who's right? The majority? The minority should just shut-up?
This is interesting, because that is what has happened to the marginalized group in the first place, cut off and silenced by the majority of society.
Now they cut off and marginalize others who may not share in their viewpoint.
People would rather argue points with a superiority complex, rather than be open to understand over time, an individual may have a viewpoint outside of their own that is shaped by very real forces.
I mention ignorance, and many have brought up and focused on willfull ignorance, as a crime against humanity.
Ignorance can be a two-way street.
@Huggycatbear You started with a vague question. I get that it didn't go as you expect, but when you ask a vague question, you need to be ready for anything. I was vague in my response due to forum rules, and yes, I should have specified a marginalized group, but you immediately pivoted to an irrelevant hypothetical and differences in opinions between members of a group, which does not fall under ignorance. Your own example was vague and doesn't represent willful ignorance. You dismiss experiences and identities as ideologies, and say you don't want to hear about them anymore, which actually is a good example of willful ignorance. And now you want to turn the conversation into one about bullying, which is a separate topic from ignorance.
Nothing in any of what you've said here has been direct.
Learning is usually fairly uncomfortable. It's worth it though.
Ignorance in my opinion is innocent. If we listen to the individual and let their statements breathe for a minute, we may understand them (not necessarily agreeing with their perspective, but hearing them. ) They may ask your opinion, simply say, tell me more about this. Remember this is a conversation based off of a vent, or a transgression.
Then give an example of something that completely misses the mark. When they correct you, give another example that misses.
Out of frustration they will send you examples of their perspective. You may then ask permission to give examples from your own experience and perspective.
Through this interaction even while remaining calm and confident, you will both grow.
If this is a good person with a good heart, this kind of interaction will give them a reason to question a path, and educate themselves.
Normally some sort of sarcastic comment that goes right over their noggin
“Well bless all of our hearts” 🥰 …
@SweetCuddler33 Yes! I've told my daughter any number of times that everyone, and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US (including me!!), is, from time to time, stupid and ignorant when behind the wheel of a car.
I would not start with “they’re ignorant,” even if that’s how it feels. I’d start with curiosity and self-regulation.
Instead of assuming intent I would consider possibilities: misunderstanding, different context, stress, lack of information. I find that pause is often the difference between escalation and understanding.
I would seek to clarify before judging. (Hey, can you help me understand what you meant by that?) This gives the other person a chance to correct or expand. I might name the impact without attacking. (When I hear that, it comes across as dismissive to me.) Notice it’s about impact, not labeling the person. I would try to stay specific and grounded. No sweeping statements like “you always…”—just the moment at hand. I would invite alignment (I’d rather we handle it this way—does that work for you?) I’d aim to frame a collaborative fix instead of a moral verdict.
Of course, I’d set boundaries if needed — If the behavior continues: “I’m open to discussing this, but not if it’s going to be framed like that.” Try to remain calm, firm, not punitive. I’d also just let go when appropriate — not every “ignorant” comment deserves energy. Sometimes the most mature or wisest move is disengagement.
I would not shame, escalate, or try to “win.” And I would not suppress everything either—try to address it, just cleanly. Easier said than done, but that’s what I aim for.
So my mental frame: pause, assume less, ask more, state impact, move on.
Sometimes experience lets me jump straight from pause to move on. 🙂
@IronicMaiden You're framing me in a certain way with your mind. We talked about your version of willful ignorance. And we talked about it a while. Whether I see it as ideological or not, it's the same dead horse tribal talk I've heard from a whole political alignment of people, in and outside of the group.
We don't have to see eye to eye on this topic. Let's agree to disagree and carry on our merry way.
@Darkeyed_male Ty! That is how I see it. Innocence and it's okay to be ignorant. People really want to crash into the innocence of others by forcing information they have curated for their purpose dowm their throats.
I do not care if they label it willful or not, it is not a crime to reject someone's viewpoint, especially when we can see where it's rooted from a mile away.
@Jubal I love that. As long as being stupid is not to be confused with ignorance. Those are two seperate things that once again, you're right, been both lol.
@Huggycatbear I haven't dismissed anything. Your example was of two people in a group having different opinions. And you brought it up in response to me talking about someone who is not a member of the group spreading misinformation. It's possible for members of a group to have different opinions, but that isn't the topic here, as we're talking about ignorance, not opinions.
And you're still confusing opinions with facts. Like with the berries. Raspberries are not poisonous. That is a fact, not a viewpoint. If you were to continue to believe that raspberries are poisonous despite being told that they're not and all of the evidence that they are not and no evidence that they are, then you are being willfully ignorant. And likewise, if you say something untrue about a group, no viewpoint is going to make it a fact. If you refuse to listen to someone because you consider their experience to be just another viewpoint, then you are being willfully ignorant.
I don't see how you can learn anything when you change the topic every time you speak, but that's just me. I personally would rather the people I'm talking to be able to follow along the conversation.
@IronicMaiden @mauvefox
"To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant." — A. Bronson Alcott
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." — Martin Luther King, Jr.
"Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have." — James Baldwin
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." — Wayne W. Dyer
"Never let your persistence and passion turn into stubbornness and ignorance." — Anthony J. D'Angelo