OP deactivated their account.. while we don’t know why, it’s reasonable to assume this thread had something to do with it. Can we all just assume the best in people, share opinions openly, and collectively promote an open-minded and welcoming space?
There are kinder and more productive ways to communicate that you interpreted his q as problematic. He certainly made it clear in his response that he did not intend to convey any value or moral judgment. I mean, you could also interpret it as him thinking ppl are naturally beautiful how they are. He never said that tattoos and piercings make people ugly (which would be fine if he did - opinion NOT a judgment), just that they don’t increase attractiveness (to him.) aesthetic is personal preference. Don’t bully people that express different preferences than you. Also, seriously, the words “opinion” and “judgment” are NOT synonyms.
@cozycuddler4you
We don't know why he deactivated. It's possible this thread contributed. It's also possible it didn't. Responses here were not attacking, they were responsive to how the question was asked and received. I choose to believe that all the folks who replied here also had the best of intentions when they did so and did not mean to cause any harm.
I didn't assume he intended harm when he posted. But even if I assume the best intentions of someone, I can only work with the words on the page, and the words on the page included a disclaimer he acknowledged was added purposefully because he knew how it would land.
If I need to add "I'm not judging" to something I've written, that's my signal to rewrite the draft.
As for the idea that he possibly could have been complimenting people's natural beauty, that's a serious stretch of the imagination. "doesn't seem to add to the beauty of one's body" is an evaluation, and not a positive one. It's an attempt to say something negative in a 'nice' way.
He also could have recognized how his words landed with the community (which he was aware of given his disclaimer) and acknowledged this and reworded his question. Instead he became defensive.
I did say that opinion and judgment are commonly interchangeable in regard to personal belief, that doesn't mean they are synonyms. I also laid out distinctions between opinion and judgment regarding personal belief. His initial post still would be defined as a judgment given those distinctions.
I'm not here to debate the cultural use of language. He told us what he was doing when he added the disclaimer. That's not innocence. That's awareness.
Serious q - Why can’t his disclaimer just be taken at face value?
He said it to clarify and avoid misinterpretation. Just bc he didn’t reword it in your preferred convoluted way doesn’t make it wrong or ill-intended.
A question framed as serious while calling my approach convoluted isn't quite landing as good faith.
And I am taking his disclaimer at face value. The face value of it is that he knew how it would land. That's what he told us. Taking it at face value and ignoring what it literally says (including his later clarification that confirmed it) are two different things.
I give up. 🤦🏼♀️
@cozycuddler4you I do hear you. As a tattooed individual, I personally didn't take his question as offensive myself but as a wanting to understand. Could it have been worded better, sure, but I didn't read it coming from ill intent. But I also can't take away from how it made others feel about how they interpreted it.
@MeltMyWay Thank you! To your point, two things can be true at the same time. The question was INTENDED in good-faith, AND RECEIVED as offensive.
Ok, now I'm done. For real this time.
@MeltMyWay Very true. I don't think he intended to cause any harm to anyone. And I also, as someone who has adorned my body in several ways, didn't take offense.
@mauvefox 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
And for those arguing towards the need to assume the best of people: even if we believe there was no ill intent, it doesn't change potential harm. Impact > intent. Always.
Our criticizing someone's behavior is warranted. If we never held people accountable for their harmful behavior, society would collapse. The entire idea behind cooperative society is people having to learn to adjust their behavior in order to successfully integrate with the larger group.
Someone isn't a bad person if they make one mistake or behave poorly one time. It takes repeated patterns of poor behavior and mistakes rooted in habitual carelessness for it to become a larger issue. I wish the people who constantly complain about lack of understanding and empathy would turn that lens back on themselves with a critical thinking cap on. Our standards for ourselves should not be lower than what we hold the group to.
Also, it should be noted that deactivated is not the same as deleted. Deactivation just prevents other members from contacting you - it doesn't mean you've left the site. It could be he was getting flooded with messages, or perhaps he just needed to take a mental health break. There's plenty of longtime regular members who regularly deactivate their accounts for their own sanity - myself included.
@cuddlefaery Yes exactly. If I've mispoken and caused harm, i want to know that and be educated about it so I don't repeat it.
@cuddlefaery agreed, perception IS reality. Seriously though, this thread has completely lost the plot and has been blown wayyyy out of proportion. What HARM was done? General consensus on this thread is that no one took it as offensive, those with tattoos and piercings included. At WORST, it's been noted that he could have phrased his post slightly differently. Ok. point made. Let's not turn this into something that it's not.
@mauvefox same here. Humans have such a variety of opinions, beliefs, and preferences - the only way we can work together is if we learn how to adapt our own behavior accordingly. But sadly there are a lot of people who never developed the self-awareness to examine their own behavior, so the burden falls to the rest of us to navigate around their unregulated emotions 🤦🏻♀️
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The problem with tattoos, as I see it, is not aesthetic but physical. Tattoos are associated with a number of immediate and long-term health risks.
@jamesDC sure hope you don't drive in cars. All that risk, ya know. ✌️
Also, do you have a source for your claims?
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11739707/
Hilarious. From your link:
"there are no epidemiological studies that would evaluate the potential links between tattoos and cancer or other disorders."
"All these substances can have a toxic effect, if their levels in the ink exceed the permissible limits (9, 16–18)."
"Furthermore, tattoo inks differ in quality, especially the professional ones (brands) from cheap tattoo inks of unknown composition, which contain even more hazardous substances than professional inks"
The amount of times the word can is used in there vs WILL, is pretty humorous to me, given your claims. Probably best not to cherrypick in an effort to support your personal beliefs.
I posted the link to the entire study. That is not cherry picking. The one who is cherry picking is you.
I think there's a pissing contest going on.... "I can PEE higher than you!!!!!"
But I can pee medical studies in cursive in the snow. Or as I call it—snow tattooing.
I merely pointed out that your own link doesn't support your stance ☺️
What’s happening is a credible article is getting used to try to prove something that the article itself says it can’t prove.
One study the authors cite found no statistically significant association between tattoos and lymphoma at all.
The authors themselves state there are no epidemiological studies establishing causal links between tattoos and cancer or systemic disease.
The authors call for more longitudinal research precisely because the evidence isn’t there yet to draw the conclusions being drawn here.
A paper saying “we need more research” is not a paper saying “this is dangerous.” Those are two very different things.
And this is why we need to fully fund our education system.
I can only repeat that there seem to be many risks associated with getting tattoos. That’s not a controversial statement. I invite anyone who is interested to Google it for themselves. One study in Sweden found that tattoo exposure was associated with an increased risk of malignant lymphoma, although the researchers also say that more studies are needed to establish causality. There is ongoing research into possible links between tattoos and skin cancer. The short-term risks seem to be well known. The Mayo Clinic and many other websites describe them quite extensively.
That’s actually exactly what I said. “Associated with” does not mean “caused by.”
The article linked is just a narrative review of other research studies. Studies that are in their infancy and all acknowledge they have no causal findings. It’s a summary of what is currently known, but that’s a summary of incomplete evidence which the writers explicitly say is incomplete and not causal.
“Associated with” just means they noticed tattoos showed up more often in people who got lymphoma. It doesn’t tell you why, or what else those people had in common, or whether the tattoo had anything to do with it at all.
As far as “association” to skin cancer in general, people who display tattoos tend to expose more skin to the sun. That’s a confounding variable that none of these studies have adequately controlled for.
The short-term risks? Any reputable tattoo artist covers that before they pick up a needle. That’s informed consent. It’s already happening.
And just Google it? Googling it is how we got here in the first place. Most of what you will find is garbage. And if you do come across something medically published, you still need to know how to read it and not get caught up in flashy titles.
@mauvefox
@Brandi ” meat suit” 😂 lol
@JohnnyVV There's definitely some cruel people on the forums that jump to conclusions, gatekeep, and dogpile. They make veiled or not-so-veiled attacks off their political beliefs. You'll find some usual suspects that are easier to just ignore.
Back to topic: interesting thing about tattoos is there is research that talk about them triggering an immune system response that can lead to chronic inflammation. So there is definitely a health angle to consider.
@lovingspoonfull I do see that it has become a fad. I think body art can be a beautiful form of expression, but anymore, it's rare to find someone without tattoos.