Octopussy ?
Oh wait I know the one you're talking about 😂
Love a good movie title innuendo
Cat tax for @BlueIris & @pmvines
@jdev25 I'm asking this in complete honesty - can you please point out for me what in the initial replies from the rest of us came off as dismissive? Because I'm having trouble parsing what we might have said that triggered his escalation other than not giving him the answers he was seeking.
@cuddlefaery And the commenters who were dismissive towards him could have done the same thing. He really wasn't that vague as people are making it out to be honestly. I think people didn't take enough time to read and understand. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and when I read something that could be interpreted different ways, I like to give them credit for the best one. I think some were a bit too eager to jump on their case just for the sake of doing it, instead of using the exact same advice you just gave the other direction. It works both ways.
I don't read any of OPs posts as antagonistic or defensive. As many have stated, take words at face value and accept clarifications when provided. No need to always assume the worst. Like, relax. Also, people talk and type and read things differently in different parts of the country / world. Clarifying is always better than assuming bad intentions.
I read some of the responses on here from forum regulars to be inside jokes. I think OP did a great job leaning into the banter and expressing his openness and desire to make friends with like-minded folks.
@jdev25 I still fail to see where anyone was dismissive prior to OP stating:
See now you cats are sounding a little hostile. I said that walls of texts are walls and now the guards are here.
From the original post, this is the question he posed:
So I wanted to know what you guys do to nurture and foster new community members. Surely you don’t leave people to the wolves? 😂 How do you communicate to someone who’s new about the fluidity of the connections here and how are they taught to interact?
So I wanted to know what you guys do to nurture and foster new community members. Surely you don’t leave people to the wolves? 😂
How do you communicate to someone who’s new about the fluidity of the connections here and how are they taught to interact?
To me, and apparently several others, that initial question read as: "how do you help new users figure out the ropes". Even your response, @jdev25 , seemed to be responding to that question as you directed him to one of the FAQs. So likewise, @mauvefox and I directed him to several of the resources the site offers that explain how things work.
It was only much later that OP clarified (after commenting about hostility and negativity):
It’s a question about what you guys do to connect with the community at large. That’s not something that I’m going to necessarily read about. Maybe the phrasing has you confused but it’s a one on one question. I’m asking you (1) singular as an individual how you bring in new members into the fold.
This wasn't just one person apparently not reading the OP correctly. This was multiple people taking OP at his word and responding to it. This was the actual desired discussion not at all being laid out in the OP. No where in that original post did he say he wanted examples of individual experiences with newbies. No where did he state the expectation was for one-on-one discussions vs group forum - and as I said, in a public forum the default is going to be for group discussion rather than the one-on-one nature of DMs.
So from our perspective, OP:
Also:
Some things have been edited now, so it's hard to construct the original full picture.
The only edits I observed, for both my comments and others, were for typos and minor errors. No one changed the original intent, other than as @BellaAine said softening wording for better receipt. To imply that people were editing comments to dishonestly hide hostility is a pretty hefty accusation to make.
@cuddlefaery I never even remotely said that anyone edited comments to dishonestly hide hostility. You are now literally doing the exact thing that you were upset about. You're reading between the lines to find something not there. If you really genuinely want to understand where I felt the communication started to break down, I don't feel that any of this should continue here. It's gotten off-topic and bad enough.
There are also multiple people here who understood the OP very well, and those people shouldn't be marginalized nor should your group be considered the default perspective. I really feel there were mistakes on all sides, but ANYONE could have chosen to seek clarification instead of what happened regardless of what anyone else was perceived to have done "first". It's pretty obvious to me that both sides think the other did it "first" and that's exactly BECAUSE of the misunderstandings from the very start. I do thank the other commenter who saw the wisdom along with me in seeing this perspective because I feel like this got dog piled on too heavily and now the entire purpose of the post is just being ignored.
@jdev25 I'm still genuinely asking for clarification on what was dismissive in the original responses. And now I'm confused by what else you might have meant about editing comments.
The full paragraph was:
I also see people focusing on him being dismissive, but honestly people were initially a bit dismissive with him first. Like I said, things have been edited so we'll never be able to get a clear picture of how it went exactly, but I do feel like it was a breakdown of understanding and communication.
So what edits might people have made that would make the picture unclear, other than changing wording to mean something else? Just fixing typos or correcting grammar are not going to make it difficult to understand what happened. What am I reading, or not reading, between the lines here?
I absolutely agree there's been miscommunication on both sides. And I think it's important to have discussions about communication breakdowns publicly in order to help prevent future issues. If we never analyse why and how it happened, it will continue happening. And if you don't want to participate in that, fine. But I'm not asking for clarification as some sort of gotchya - I'm trying to understand.
Even your response, @jdev25 , seemed to be responding to that question
I explained why I didn't answer all his questions in my original response in this previous comment:
https://cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/25758/how-do-you-cats-onboard-kittens/p2#Comment_386517
@cozycuddler4you thank you for your comments. I agree with you 💯 % That's the kind of energy I'd want to book with.
From the outside looking in yall really took what he said and ran with it. Relax
it’s interesting how I read everything the same way @cuddlefaery did and @jdev25 seems to have read everything the way OP did. I wonder if it’s about experience on the site or more of a gender difference. I read through it all just now and read OP’s comments as dismissive, but I didn’t read the early responses to OP that way. I really relate to @jdev25, since I’m the type who read all the resources when I got back on here, but I think that’s why the original post rubbed me the wrong way. Regardless of that, after the first couple responses from OP, I’d have been pretty fed up.
Anyway, here’s my lovely kitten:
I hope you all have a wonderful day.
Morning!
Here’s a shot from about 250 feet.
It’s not always easy work but the views and the kind of work I do make the experience exhilarating.
Hope you cats have a good day
Cats are excellent tree climbers . Fun fact
I do appreciate that there has been some clarification with wording on things. And that folks are communicating more effectively.
In my experience the expectation to “read between the lines” is never a good idea. Regardless of how good you think you might be at doing that.
I found myself confused at myself and others being called hostile in our replies.
As cuddlefaery said, it’s a public forum post. This invites group discussion automatically. And there was no specific request for individual stories.
As tranquilheart and others noted. The tone of the OP was casual and included humor. He indicated a familiarity with the regular players on the forum, so why would he not be familiar with how we engage.
And then he also said that he had not fully read through everything because the walls of texts had created walls for him. And the request was for us to talk about it here. Cuddlefaery already expressed frustration shared by others around this being the “please do the work for me part”. I indicated that to answer that kind of question would just be another wall of text.
At no point did the OP, who would clearly have been getting replies he wasn’t expecting, clarify what he was looking for. In fact he continued to reply and match the same levels of snark and playful defensiveness we were giving in response to him. When I said we were playing, it’s because I thought that’s what was happening. But by that time the OPs tone had shifted to just defensive.
This wasn’t about us not wanting “another newbie post” as OP indicated. there are many posts by new cuddlers wanting direction. They are referred to the resources pretty quickly and plainly. In fact there was another one just last night that cuddlefaery replied to and this is usually how they are treated.
We were responding to the tone of the original post.
And @HometownHumble the view looks dangerous but pretty amazing.
It’s the best
@jdev25 I noticed you only replied to one small part of cuddlefaery’s post. And with a link to your previous comment explaining something I don’t think she was asking for. She wasn’t asking why you didn’t answer more thoroughly. She was indicating that your initial response also seemed similar to ours. You came in with explanations and resources.
And I’d be curious about your answers on the other things she asked as well.
And I understand you might view these kinds of conversations as a derailment from the thread’s original intention. But this is just how public group forums work in many places.
After all, it’s a thread about cats and kittens, right? 😉
For those saying we were too harsh, I encourage you to answer the OP's original question. Several people offered information and perspectives, but among those defending him, I only saw one person directly answer the question, and that response didn't appear to receive a reply from the OP.
Loving all the cat pics 🤗 🐈
Meow
Here you go @pmvines my two beasties. I know you missed seeing them.
@mauvefox I chose not to continue engaging and answering any of the rest because honestly I felt that she had crossed some lines, become unnecessarily mean and disingenuous, and wrote some things that were especially uncalled for. She complained about people reading between the lines and seeing things that aren't there, and then literally did exactly that against me, and accused me of making a serious accusation. I absolutely never did that, and I called her out on it, but never received an apology. Also her remark about "notably responded much more favorably to men who responded than to women" against OP was completely out of line. The only reason I even knew mauvefox was female is from previous forum posts. Does she think the OP actually even bothered to click on their name to go investigate their gender so they could choose to "not respond favorably"? Those kinds of accusations really shouldn't just be thrown around, and I made the decision that I didn't want to interact further with someone so toxic.
@mauvefox awww they’re cuddling!
@tranquilheart aren’t they super cute! They’re brothers from the same litter so they’ve always been super bonded to each other. But one of them is a little cuddle kitty with peoples too and will come and lay right on top of your chest. Cause you didn’t need to see the tv or anything. 😂
They used to fit much better in that little bed.
@mauvefox that’s so sweet! My cat adores cuddling with new people, but she’s never hit it off with another cat. I had a friend over last night and it was her first time meeting my kitty, but they spent the whole time snuggling ☺️
@Cuddlesofcuddle Thank you for the additional support from a mature perspective. I wholeheartedly agree with you, and was trying to get people to take a breath and realize that they were just dumping on the OP for no good reason other than just turning it into a witch hunt. Honestly, as soon as I saw a couple early comments, I just had a feeling that it was going to happen because I could clearly see the difference in styles of communication and I knew both sides weren't going to understand each other from the outset. It's just a shame that there were so few of us who were advocating for everyone to take a breath and think for a minute vs those who were just looking to pile it on, and honestly got a little bit mean spirited and unnecessary, and I hated seeing that, especially in a forum post surrounding the very topic of how newer members are shown support and given help to integrate into the community.
I don't think it has anything at all to do with gender, as both cuddlesofcuddle and @cozycuddler4you are female, and seem to have landed with sharing my perspective. Personally I think it's more to do with maturity. Many were quick to accuse OP of being dismissive and antagonistic, but they weren't willing to also give an honest look at the other side and see that it occurred on the other side as well, even after I pointed it out. It's just unfortunate that it went as far as it did. I should have spoken up immediately after the first couple remarks that I just knew OP wasn't going to understand correctly, and they were going to come off as dismissive to him because they were so specifically about interactions on the forum that you'd have to be aware of from a higher level of forum participation to get the joke. But I didn't think it would spiral to the degree it did.
@jdev25 I appreciate your continued support. It does not go unnoticed. I will hopefully bring you some relief to know that I can handle the jeers.
I am pretty sure I never brought up anything about gender until it was in defense of a gender charged comment. Which was uncalled for but I’m not here to beat dead horses.
Many people who don’t know me may not realise that I look at people as equals. Whatever anyone identifies as will be irrelevant to how I hold them accountable for how they interact with me. I can handle that, to the dismay of others who may use their identity to justify their behaviour.
All in all, I’m really tired of the “I need to have the last word”, energy. I would rather get to know you all instead!
Hope everyone is having a good day 🌞
@jdev25
Respectfully. I don't think you realize how some of your posts are coming off to a good portion of the room. Because they're not reading well and you're coming off as passive aggressive and avoidant.
Thanking someone else for their 'mature perspective' for agreeing with you, automatically puts others in an 'immature perspective'. And the comment you quote: 'we took what he said and ran with it' is exactly the point. OP said something, we went with that. We replied to the words and the tone. Some of us were silly because OP was silly in the post.
Telling a large part of the room they clearly misread and have piled on to OP, when we have given reasonable explanations for why we responded the way we have doesn't make you better at reading folks.
cuddlefaery did an extremely thorough review of the timeline here and asked important follow up questions without answers from you, and got called toxic for it with no evidence of that. Calling someone 'toxic' without identifying anything specifically they have said to warrant that label, is toxicity itself.
Someone brought up a difference in replies to gender and you assumed that no one would ever do that. You may not, but I assure you many people definitely do. Maybe not with the conscious intention to apply gender roles, but they check out profiles to learn more about the person who is commenting. People have looked up my profile and pulled aspects of it out into forums directly.
Your first reply here was well thought out and measured, but they have declined since then. You have claimed you are excellent at reading things and understanding, and yet I think you have had some severe misreads and replies in this thread.
I understand this is unsolicited advice, but I would take caution moving forward because you risk alienating people who could be wonderful friends and resources to you.
@HometownHumble
As far as your now clarified intent, looking for personal stories of onboarding, I’ve been thinking about it and all I can do is share my own experience.
I don’t think there is an onboarding. OP asked if we just throw the kittens to the wolves, and that is in fact what happens. Because we aren’t kittens (or Foxes even). We are all grown adults, it’s a requirement of being here. 😁
Like most online communities, this isn’t a classroom, a new job, or summer camp. There isn’t a mentorship program. As cuddlefaery mentioned, it’s FB for cuddling.
When I joined, I was inundated with cringe and creepy messages. There was no handholding. No guidance. Quite literally thrown to the wolves.
I eventually got a couple messages from folks who were well meaning and who had been here for a while and I was able to ask them questions.
I found the forums and quietly lurked there and did thoroughly read them even though I have ADHD and a negative quota of executive function. There was valuable information. I watched others ask questions that had easy to find answers and they were provided with links to do their own research.
I was able to get a read on the regular players, not based on one post or one thread, but many posts and threads over time and across topics. I’m pretty good at getting a read on folks quickly.
I started commenting carefully, dipping my toes in, getting a sense of ‘the room’. I started messaging some of those people whose values aligned with mine and making friends, some from all over the country.
They’ve been amazing and supportive and kind. They’ve been able to provide insight and feedback, sometimes criticisms to me when I’ve needed that.
And they’ve been called toxic and bullies for standing up for what they believe, for defending marginalized groups of people, for defending their right to exist even, sometimes for just simply disagreeing, and apparently for providing resources with a little bit of sass added on. 😉
They are some of the most genuine people I’ve met. They don’t beat around the bush, they don’t hide who they are, they will give you honest feedback. While others can become defensive to that, and I do understand why, it’s actually completely refreshing for me to have people I don’t have to second guess or read between the lines.