Men Who Hate Women, Or, Cuddling with the Abhorrent

hogboblinhogboblin
edited April 2019 in General

To be perfectly, crystal clear: this thread is about men* who, while hating women, are also desperate for the services that they provide on this site. Anyone even slightly familiar with this forum will be aware of those who see women as objects to be used—doubly so if they should happen to charge for cuddling.

There aren't many men here who make their hatred openly known (and it comes in a variety of flavors). While some would say that that's indicative of a small population of unsavory persons, my pessimism inclines me to believe that said population is far greater than anyone might expect.

Except, maybe, for professionals—the following question is for them.

How do you contend with a man who, perhaps blatantly, disrespects you during a meeting? A fellow who seems bursting with invective, or condemnation—prior to spooning? A condescending fatherly type who sees you as a stupid child? A guy who might hate themselves for enlisting your aid, but somehow manages to hate you more, as you say your goodbyes?

I'm not talking about the usual horrific actions (unwanted sexual advances, predatory behavior, etc). Instead, I'm talking about a unique sort of toxicity bred between the desperate and those who can provide them solace. A kind of antagonistic cuddling, if you will, where one participant's needs are bound up in loathing.

Have you, dear reader, dealt with that before? If so, how many times? What sort of effect has it had on you? Would you say that you ultimately gained from your interactions? (Edit, an additional question) Have you found it difficult to maintain your standards of professionalism?

Of course, I'd be interested to read the thoughts and opinions of enthusiasts, too. Some relationships, for example, are exceedingly toxic in the before-mentioned ways.

  • No, I'm not saying that all men are like this. Relax, take a deep breath.
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Comments

  • MisterTeaMisterTea

    You sound like you hate men. Do you hate all men or just the ones who look like Mark Wahlburg?

  • MisterTeaMisterTea

    Also- take your own advice about the relaxing. Women can not respect boundaries as well. I have a coworker who will not stop soliciting me for sex and kisses me when I do not want to be kissed by her. I was respectful to her in saying no but have literally said no over 10 times and counting.
    The difference is in my opinion- an undesirable woman will still get hit on because so many men are bottom feeders. An undesirable man is often isolated and becomes increasingly lonely.

  • KempistKempist

    @hogboblin what's your agenda here? Are you agitating just for kicks or to cause dissension? Are trying to suck up to women? Are you white knighting?

  • CatloafCatloaf
    edited April 2019

    How do you contend with a man who, perhaps blatantly, disrespects you during a meeting?

    If this person is being emotionally abusive, making off-colour comments which make me uncomfortable, or in general just being a real piece of work, then I let them know it isn't sitting well with me, and I leave. I don't ever interact with that person again. It isn't my place to offer insight at that point, it isn't my job to make them change their minds once they've made it clear they don't want to.

    I do however try not to take it personally, and to not label this person for their behaviour or beliefs. I often wonder what events unfolded in this person's life to make them take that position. Maybe I don't want to know, because it usually isn't a conscious primrose path on the way to misogyny.

    A guy who might hate themselves for enlisting your aid, but somehow manages to hate you more, as you say your goodbyes?

    This is a pretty typical mindset of, say, the incel movement. They will gloat on and on about how they have to pay for any kind of female attention, but then at the same time they've come to accept that "tying down" is just going to lead them to be abused and unhappily married to some "fat, American" [insert explitive here], and they'd rather run from real intimacy and vulnerability by trying to bed as many people as possible. Unfortunately when your ideas of relationships are that toxic, your only option is taking what you can get...and probably having to pay someone to make you feel better about that level of BS. Can you imagine the mental gymnasitcs someone like that has to perform in order to subscribe to such a skewed view of life?

    They can hate all they want...eventually, they've got no where to run. As much as they hate women, misogynists do need us. I'll compare it to when you're a teenager and you get in a squabble with your parents. You stomp down to your room, vowing never to come out again, to leave as soon as you turn 18, you don't need them...whatever. When you're hungry enough, you'll be going upstairs after about an hour of loathing life because dinner is ready. You might still hate your folks. But then, to what extent do you really hate them if you're seeking food from their kitchen?

    If someone hated women and cuddled with me at the same time, it was likely masked very well and I wasn't able to detect it, or maybe I haven't come across these people yet. If "hating" (very loose word) someone is the case after enlisting service from someone you thought could help, then there is a serious amount of inner work to do and a person in that place shouldn't be approaching a pro before that work is done or underway. Loneliness is a natural human experience and emotion. I don't care how "red pilled" someone is or thinks they are. They do feel lonely. They just don't want to admit it, and when they try to, all sorts of dissonance can pop up. They might think, "Hey, let's see if this works. God, I still feel awful. Why do I have to pay someone to give me the least bit of attention that should be FREE? Women are awful, because all they ever want is to take, take, take... and when I give, I never feel better."

    People are lonely for different reasons, of course.

    It's the reason I typically try to really glean why someone is in need of a cuddle session... satiating "loneliness" is a tricky area. Is this someone who is lonely because they are, say, overworked, constantly traveling, and just want to be taken back to comfort with their partner back home while they are in town? Is it someone who has a habit of socially isolating themselves and doesn't know how to open up to their peer group or significant other? Are they lonely because they've been abused and are now living in a perception of the world where touch is dangerous to them?

    Or is it someone who loathes themselves so much that they would rather hire for company than be alone? I have run into this type many times, and unfortunately, they do end up feeling worse, or indeed hating the fact that they "have to" pay someone to give them the time of day.

    I never go into a session with the goal of having my sociological beliefs line up with the client. If they "hate women", it's none of my business, unless they start saying inflammatory things that reflect this sentiment to me in that moment. That's their own journey to suffer from, learn from, whatever.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited April 2019

    Whatever is posted on this topic is pure conjecture, because as hobgoblin states in his thesis, he wants to know about the ones that are unspoken on their hatred. If it is unspoken how are the women to know what is really going on inside the man? Perceived condescension and invective could be derived from physiological disease (Tourette’s and Parkinson’s come to mind), shyness, social anxiety and a litany of other issues. I am sure closet misogynists exist, but you are asking for speculation based off experience. Kind of like asking a survivor of the Hindenburg right after the disaster what caused the tragedy and they said fire, not knowing about the static electricity in the area they could not see on board.

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    @Catloaf

    "Can you imagine the mental gymnasitcs someone like that has to perform in order to subscribe to such a skewed view of life?"

    Yeah, to a certain extent. Social websites are full of lovely, vocal people.

    I thank you for your input.

  • laylanielaylanie

    Not sure how asking for a specific demographic to answer a question so that the original poster can have some insight on them is agitation, but that's just me.

    Granted, the question was extremely specific to which simply I would say " @hogboblin , I have not dealt with the scenario that you mentioned from my world view, but I am intrueged on how someone may have dealt with this dynamic shift of a person's behavior! Boi howdy! I hope someone stays on topic to what the original post was about so that I can also learn!"

    As for what @MisterTea said, sexual harassment is an equal opportinistic crime for sure. I'm 100% in agreement that this is a often dismissed topic in general, but that's not the topic here. The main thread is about a person being toxic that is not the typical of sexual assault/pushing boundries. (Again awful specific, but cool. Rules have been set.)
    The last bit about undesirable women vs men seems a bit off goal of your first message, but whatever, seems like its own thought that deserves its own thread to debate.

  • pmvinespmvines

    I see some resentment at times from men feeling rejected and then going on rants about how badly women treat them and complain about paid cuddlers because folks womt chddle.them for free. Usually an ego thing.

  • KempistKempist

    Phew some of you have a lot of issues. I've seen several pro cuddlers from here who weren't even aware of this forum and when I mentioned it they said they weren't interested in reading it let alone posting. They all told me just about all of their experiences cuddling with guys were positive.

    Maybe all this huffing and puffing and Intellectual posing on this forum is more about projection and ideology and looking to be offended than about reality.

  • hogboblinhogboblin
    edited April 2019

    @FunCartel

    It's difficult, but not impossible, to pick up on animosity/disgust/hatred. Body language, micro-expressions, the tone of one's voice, etc. Of course, those sorts of signals can be misread. They can be imagined.

    However, I think that those who might feel as if they inspire hate, repulsion, or disrespect by simply existing and providing a service (in this specific case) should be given the benefit of the doubt.

    Because they (women) have to deal with a ton of absurd nonsense. If we're keeping this relegated to cuddling: just browse the forums.

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    @snugbuddy

    I'm interested in hearing the thoughts and opinions of others.

    I dunno, maybe when I do a post about how straight, religious/conservative males have demonized platonic cuddling between men (by attributing the grave and repellent sin of homosexuality to it), you can provide some insight into that.

    "Maybe" being the operative word here.

    But, for now, it would be nice if you could stay on topic. Okay, little buddy? There you go. You got your attention.

    :)

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @hobgoblin Oh, do not get me wrong, women should be given the benefit of the doubt.

  • KempistKempist

    @hogboblin we all can't be as enlightened and as sensitive and virtuous as you. You surely are a superior champion of women than any of us neanderthal brutes could ever hope to be. Though I know I will never reach your exalted perfect level of caring, sensitivity and virtue I feel fortunate that such a great person as you exists for it it gives me a noble example and ideal goal for which to strive.

  • [Deleted User]sunrise789 (deleted user)

    I'm just glad there is a forum,a safe space for hobgoblin to attack men, straight men, religious men without having to provide evidence of any transgression. But please dont stop there, Im sure you can cast your net wider.
    An open-minded, secure and self-confident thinker can accept that it is ok for others to have an opposing view without needing to disparage the character of those with different beliefs.

    Your opening thesis is supported, in your words, only by your own pessimism. No evidence, act or event to reference. Just your pessimism that you just know it that somewhere, there has to be a woman-hating man who would deign to actually cuddle the object of his hate. A completely invalid thesis. Purely an attack.

    Have you nothing better to do with your time?

  • MisterTeaMisterTea

    Well said sunrise. I am afraid he may be in the news for slicing off a man’s wang in the near future.

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    @sunrise789

    You do realize that there are often forum posts here, written by women, about situations where they were the subject of unwanted sexual advances? That molestation, and even rape, are serious concerns for female enthusiasts and professionals alike?

    I really don’t think it’s a huge jump to say that a number of men on this site, whether or not they’re active on the forums, see women as objects to do with as they like.

    Considering all of that, it shouldn’t be too difficult to imagine a scenario in which a desperate and hate-filled man has reluctantly bought the services of a pro.

    I’m simply curious as to how a professional might have dealt with such a potentially awkward, and incredibly uncomfortable, situation.

    The only people who should feel attacked are those who exhibit the traits that I’ve attacked. Traits that any sensible, decent person would attack.

    I mean, seriously, I’m a misanthrope. “Don’t treat people like things” is exceedingly basic, even for me.

  • [Deleted User]CharlesTwisted (deleted user)
    edited April 2019

    I wish it were otherwise, but it is not possible in our current “culture” to have an open, and honest, discussion about intimacy, sex, gender, roles, power, and desires.

    Perhaps one day, but today is not that day.

    Frankly, all of us are far too conditioned by the culture we were raised in to be able to step away from our own egos, and emotions, and examine these topics without a tremendous amount of pushback, both from internal, and external sources.

    I do appreciate @hogboblin for attempting it.

    I’ve been drafting a post about shame, rejection, desire, stigma, guilt, desperation, and loneliness for these forums, but this post, and the responses within, have convinced me that it is likely pointless, and would certainly be punishing.

    I wish us all way more than luck.

  • [Deleted User]poet05 (deleted user)
    edited April 2019

    @hogboblin if the men aren't making their hatred openly known, how were you able to conclude that there are even any men who do hate? (i know this sounds like a silly question given that hate is part of the human psyche and pretty much everyone hates something, but i guess i'm asking how are you able to say that this is a problem, is it purely anecdotal/assumptive or can you read the minds of men?)... also if they aren't making it known openly, then how is the hate manifesting itself, surely it is not behaviorally or verbally manifesting itself because then it would be out in the open

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    @poet05

    ...

    There are men on this site who violate and denigrate women. They see them as objects to be used. They see them as inferior, and treat them as such.

    Are you going to argue that a such a man does not, in some way, hate women?

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    It seems like a few people have taken issue with my choice of wording.

    Not with the horrible actions or behaviors that I’ve described—and that can be observed in the CC forums. No, my usage of “hate” is troublesome.

  • MisterTeaMisterTea

    You could also argue that many female professional cuddlers must hate men. Because their client base is by and large lonely men seeking affection that they prey on. Many charge 100 or more an hour. That is more than many therapists charge. That is more than a massage costs.
    You spend 3 hours with a professional and that could be 300 plus. And a lot of these professionals do not have any or many positive reviews and are still charging such a high price.

  • hogboblinhogboblin
    edited April 2019

    @MisterTea

    No, you couldn’t. Unless you attribute an inherent maliciousness to the rendering of every service ever.

    Those kids with the lemonade stand? They’re preying on those who are ambling by, clawing at their throats and dying of thirst.

    See? Absurdity. And it makes you seem as if you have a tenuous grasp on reality.

    Furthermore: you can’t fault professionals because you’re miserly. Go get a massage or see a therapist, then.

    Also: professionals have to deal with a lot a horrible nonsense. And they have to keep to a certain standard. Respecting their line of work, their skill, their sacrifices, and what they might be going through, could help you to understand why some charge what they do.

    But hey, if you can’t understand (or won’t), it’s not as if they’d be losing out on a potential customer. You’d just be another upset fellow with unrealistic expectations from another human being on the internet.

  • CatloafCatloaf

    And it makes you seem as if you have a tenuous grasp on reality.

    @hobgoblin This is true, actually. He made a comment on another pro's thread who had been violated implying that he thinks touching someone in a private area over the clothing isn't as serious as under it. It seems he didn't understand what platonic touch is about on any level, save for how he feels about pros.

  • pmvinespmvines

    Mr. BA Baracus is not here anymore. I was hoping to be able to meet the rest of the A Team, I l pity the fool

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    @Catloaf

    I’m not surprised. Grossed out, but unsurprised.

  • [Deleted User]acvf1972 (deleted user)
    edited April 2019

    I don’t doubt that there are a lot of bad men that come on to this website. My hope is that it’s a smaller percentage of the total than it seems. I think the bad people act out early and often, And they are probably significantly more aggressive about making contact with others. I don’t have any real world knowledge to base this on, but I think the bad people draw more attention to themselves. Make a lot of noise. And I’m not even counting the men that deliberately violate boundaries in person. My guess is that females on this site, whether professionals or just enthusiasts, are contacted by several people that raise red flags for every one person that doesn’t. That’s a little off topic from the original post-men who clearly hate women. But I just wanted to post some optimism that there are good people out there of both genders.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    It would be nice to have some kind of mark to see if a pro is participating here, it would make it easier to look for the real answers of @hogboblin 's questions.

    @Mark could this be an improvement for the forum?

    Thanks.

  • ladyintheairladyintheair
    edited April 2019

    Hi. I'm a pro and on my way to a session as we speak. @acvf1972 is correct in the fact that the bad ones make a lot of noise and they are usually flagged a couple days later. I did, however, have a cuddle session one time where the client was extremely quiet and soft spoken but talked about his ex who cheated on him and called her a cheating (expletive), and that was a bit uncomfortable, but I quickly changed the subject. I do pretty well in redirecting conversations if I feel they're going down a dark road. But other than that, I've not had men openly show any incel type behavior. I feel like if I did, it's grounds for me leaving and flagging the client.

    Also, I do charge $100 an hour and I am a 2 hour minimum. I have been a dancer for 13 years, and a lot of that experience transfers into this scope of work and is the reason why I charge what I charge. It's what I feel makes cuddling professionally worth it to me. My best friend is a massage therapist, she also charges $100 an hour. People charge based on what they think they are worth. And clients will pay those prices if they feel the professional is worth it. I have no problems getting sessions or with my clients.

    Sorry if I didn't stay on topic.

  • UKGuyUKGuy

    I think this thread can best be answered by listening to this song and watching this video:

  • EsquireEsquire
    edited April 2019

    @hogboblin , the hate is real. However, it is self hate. You're projecting onto others. You exhibit a lot of hostility in many of your posts. You want to believe you are cleverly sarcastic, but alas, you are simply not comfortable with having been born Male.

This discussion has been locked.