Who do you think you are?

garrablancagarrablanca
in General

Have you ever think in who really are you?
Of course we have dreams, opinions, desires and your free will.
But free you really are? What makes you be you?
So
Imagine that suddenly everything you know about your own culture and education were removed, all of it.
And you just keep the ability to speak.
How do you think your behavior may be if you know different as what you know now?

Who really do you think you are?
How free you really are?

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Comments

  • caringtouchcaringtouch

    I like that thought!

    Hmmm? Who am I?

  • hogboblinhogboblin

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    The ability to speak... which language? Language shapes thought, and a great deal of culture is embedded in language.

  • pmvinespmvines

    Are you asking what kind of person would one be without the normative constraints of societal constructs?

  • PaulaDahlaPaulaDahla

    I believe that's the point he's trying to make Darren, our language and culture make us who we are. My assumption of what Garrablanca is asking is this; if we were suddenly wiped clean of your memories of our culture, our language, our beliefs. If we woke from a coma let's say... yet we had conscious thought who would we chose to be going forward if we didn't have the baggage/weight/burden of how we were raised & where we were raised.

    Because you and I are linguistic people I know you'll want a language so let's say for sake of the discussion that we have the ability to create our own language just as once how ever long ago the current languages were created. I'm guessing they all started as grunts and sounds until each group developed English or Swedish, or Punjab, Mandarin; whatever language.

    So the way I'm going to look at the question is, correct me if I'm wrong @garrablanca, if I still retained my current abilities, both physical and mental but had no recall of anything else how would I chose to go forward. Who would I be knowing I have a love of words and the desire to work and not be idle. Knowing now what my body is physically capable of, or finding out very quickly anyway how would I go forward from that day if I could start fresh with only "muscle memory".

    Hmm...I'll have to think about that one.

  • PaulaDahlaPaulaDahla

    That's what I'm thinking he's asking Vines. Interesting thought.

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    @pmvines: It is difficult to be sure of what he's asking. I translated it this way:

    Have you ever thought about who you really are?
    Of course you have dreams, opinions, desires, and free will.
    But do you really have free will? What makes you who you are?

    Imagine that suddenly everything you know—culture, education, everything—was removed, leaving you with nothing but the ability to speak.

    How do you think you would act if you knew nothing except how to talk?

    Who do you think you really are?
    How free are you really?

    It strikes me as kind of a silly question. Genetics produce a brain with certain tendencies. Experiences shape it. Human beings are a process, not a product. When I was a baby, I wasn't anybody much. After I learned English, I was somebody who spoke English—meaning I knew things like "men are the default, women are a special case" (mankind, mailman, doctor vs. female doctor, etc.), but it's not like my personality was fully developed.

    Well, it was fully developed to that point, I guess. But so long as there's life, your basic genetic makeup will be interacting with your experiences to develop your personality further. Remove all that, and you're basically reverting to babyhood.

    So how would you act? Well.... [shrug] Just ask whoever raised you, and then you'll know.

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    In all seriousness:

    A sentient assemblage of rotting meat on disintegrating bone.

  • [Deleted User]CharlesTwisted (deleted user)

    A warrior, an artist, and a musician.

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)
    edited April 2019

    On the most basic level, I'm a consciousness conscious of itself, seated in (and arising from) a specific configuration of neurons and synapses and so on, all of which are dependent on and affected by the rest of this specific human body that I call "mine"—and, of course, that's affected by the stuff that impacts it (tangibly, audibly, visibly, all that).

    Just like everybody else... basically.

    What my personality's like at any given moment depends on how the stuff around my body is impacting my body, and how that's affecting the brain that's producing me.

    Fortunately brains and bodies are pretty solid. Change tends to be slow (and in some cases it's just plain impossible). So I—the awareness aware of itself being produced by the brain that's so dependent on the rest of this body—I don't typically change that much. I like books, knives, green tea, dark chocolate... this could all change, if the body that's producing me changed. But it's not likely to happen any time soon.

    I'm myself. It's all the self-definition I've ever needed. I'm not likely to get myself mixed up with anyone else, am I?

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @pmvines, that could be an approach yes, the idea is to think about the concept and give your opinion about it, if you want of course.
    Thanks to stopping by.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @DarrenWalker well the idea is that you try to describe that, not to ask that to you Mom, the Idea is to do the exercise and try to describe yourself under those parameters.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    Mmmh so @hogboblin you basically see your self without any interaction.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @CharlesTwisted interesting

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @DarrenWalker thanks for sharing

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    @garrablanca: Why go to the trouble of trying to describe what you think you'd be like without any knowledge of the world when, once upon a time, you did in fact know nothing about the world, and there are people who saw you like that and can tell you what you were, in fact, actually like when you knew nothing about society?

    @hogboblin's just providing a basic definition for "human." Personally, I like my basic definition better, but to each their own.

  • hogboblinhogboblin

    @garrablanca

    Darren was correct—that’s just how I define humanity.

    Also: I don’t think free will exists.

  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    Mr. Big Stuff.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @DarrenWalker its just an exercise, the idea is to share if someone decided to share how they see themselves, and you did your part, thanks for sharing.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @hogboblin yeah I also think that freedom is relative.
    And from that point of view if you say that it doesn't exist, then is true.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @caringtouch yeah it's a good exercise to chew on that idea.
    Thanks for stopping by.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    Thank @PaulaDahla for added more explanation to the idea...
    Yeah is fun to chew the idea.

  • [Deleted User]oboe (deleted user)

    This sounds like a philosophical question, so let me put my two cents worth in. Most of us who are religious think about life as a 2 act play. We have this life and the next one. But I think we actually have a 3 act play and the reason we don't really know what we're doing here is because we got to the play late in the 2nd act and therefore don't really know what the play is all about. The reason I say there is a 3 act play is this. If you look at larger families, I have noticed something that to me suggests there is a 3 act play going on. To a large measure we are influenced by our parents and siblings, but why is it they do not produce cookie cutter children? Even twins are not the same. I think everyone comes here with their personality pretty much already decided. Your families have some influence on you, but my children are as different as night and day. I had nothing to do with the personalities I learned they had even days old. And I don't think it's just genetics. There's a verse in the Old Testament where God asks, "Where wast thou, when all the sons of God shouted for joy?" That reference, from what I can tell, suggests that we lived somewhere prior to our coming here. Hence, a 3 act play and if we knew what happened there, I think we would know what our purpose here is.

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    @garrablanca: So the thread title is the real question, and the post itself—with its discussion of self-separate-from-knowledge-and-experience—is just an extra, only tangentially related to the actual subject.

    You just wondered how various people see themselves when they're not really thinking about anything deeper than their current personality and place in society. The whole "do you really have free will, do you choose who you are" thing's just a rabbit trail. You just wanted to know whether people see themselves as "Mr. Big Stuff" or warriors, artists, and musicians, and so on. In which case:

    Who do I think I am? I'm the villain!

    @oboe: I'm afraid that particular verse isn't an especially good one for supporting the idea of existence before birth.

    Job's been complaining about how he hasn't done anything wrong, but all this awful stuff keeps happening to him. It's not fair. It's not right. These acts of God are not just. So Elihu (one of Job's so-called friends) tells him off, explaining that God's awesome and would definitely not be unjust. Then God himself turns up.

    And what does he do? The almighty God tells Job off too!

    "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" he wants to know. "Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me."

    "Hey, stupid!" God basically says. "Guess what, smart ass, I'm gonna ask you some questions, since you're so clever."

    "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

    In other words, "Who do you think you are, questioning me? Where were you when I was doing all this awesome stuff, and everyone was praising me for my awesomeness? Nowhere, that's where! So shut your mouth!"

    And Job does: "Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth."

  • hogboblinhogboblin
    edited April 2019

    @garrablanca

    “And from that point of view if you say that it doesn't exist, then is true.”

    It sounds like you’re saying that disbelieving in free will makes me...lose my free will?

    To be more clear: I don’t think free will truly exists for anyone.

    Who is free from societal standards and expectations? Very few, in all likelihood.

    Who has absolute control over the chemicals produced by their brain in response to stimuli? Even fewer, if any.

    Who can deny the primal urges to breed, to socialize (to some extent), and to survive great trauma (an example: suicide is quite difficult)? The number is close to zero, I’d imagine.

    Perhaps a person can be free from one of those—maybe two. But all? I highly doubt it.

  • laylanielaylanie

    I'm basically 3 goats in a unicorn costume. There was suppose to be 4 so we could properly gallop, but Greg flaked AGAIN so the best we can do is to the stinky leg across the plains....

    In all seriousness, I am what I am and what I am yet to be. Since observation and language (not just a difference of English vs Spanish but just being able to associate a word to be able to effectively communicate idea and report on observation) is wide and impossible to quantify then I can only say that I am who I am, but also I am whoever I am when I get there.

  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    As Popeye says. "I yam what I yam."

    Strangely, not a fan of yams.

    Why stop at taking away culture, religion and education? Let's take away race, gender, skin and bones.

    We are blobs.

    ?-"!!!!"

    Oops, sorry. We are Cacti.

  • laylanielaylanie

    @chococuddles ! Dead! Just dead! ???
    Embrace the cacti (carefully of course...)

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @DarrenWalker mmmmh yes pretty much to see what everyone has to share, there is no way to read their minds until they share their opinion.
    And it's an interesting questions for deep thinkers, also scary when someone face the fact that they need to give up their culture or knowledge to look deeper to trying to see, who in essence really are?
    I know there will be a lot of silly post, and that's ok, but we also get interesting thoughts to read.

    And is not about literally wipe out all of your knowledge is about don't letting some persistent ideas prevent your diving into a deeper level of thinking in this question.

    It's an exercise to meditate on who we really are.

    Nobody is force to participate, or make an effort to do so.
    Everyone is invited, and they can share whatever they want to share.

  • garrablancagarrablanca

    @hogboblin mmmh no, your free will is intact, because it's a fact that you can think and conclude whatever you want to, right?
    so in that way you are a free thinker.
    that's why I said Freedom is relative.
    If someone thinks they have no freedom ... well, it's their own ideas that make them think so.
    If someone else thinks has freedom, it's the same thing.

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