@TouchIsTLC no problem.
@CardiacKid cool.
So let’s approach the topic in a different way. So you are cuddling with what you think is a woman and you suddenly discover that the she she advertised is not a she at all. At the moment of discovery do you change the conversation? Do you suddenly talk about one’s preference in flutes? Do you ask if she has ever read a boner thread on the CC forums and ask for her thoughts? Do you talk about the elephant in the room and discuss how much the trunk moves?
Inquiring minds want to know.
@FunCartel: Being me, I'd probably wonder aloud what was poking me, go "oh" when I figured it out, and shift to a different position. Then probably just carry on with whatever we were reading or watching or talking about before, unless she wanted to change the subject.
But that's me, and we all know I'm weird.
I also have to agree with @Navyman1010. There is no reason for her to not be upfront about herself if she is charging. I think by not revealing this to her clients it hurts the trans community at large, because those who may be indifferent to the trans community may suddenly view them as untrustworthy. Besides, everyone else is required to be honest, so just be honest even if it’s a private message to a prospective client.
As a trans person, I'd just like to contribute that this is not, by any means, typical trans person behavior. I can't imagine any trans person I've ever met deliberately misrepresenting themself to someone they intended to be physically close with, ESPECIALLY not to a cis person. We already have to be afraid of you when we're minding our own business.
Well @Mesatta it happened to me, and i was the one who was afraid because he was bigger then me and im not a small person lol
Dang, I would like to be big enough that cis people were scared of me.
Edit: Oh no, wait—that would only make things worse. Pitchforks and torches, anyone?
@DarrenWalker i dont ID as a cis person, I ID as man an old fashion man LOL I know we dont have those ppl anymore
@Navyman1010 It is perfectly ok to identify any way you want. I think it is silly and petty to label people. Everyone is different. Seems like we live in a time when everyone has to have a personality type based off a test, an ultra specific gender identity, and a very specific sexual identity. I do not understand this need to be put into a box and labeled...uniqueness and individuality were once être à la mode. My apologies for my French grammar.
@Navyman1010: Cis man, old-fashioned man... tomato, tomahto.
This is my experience: The majority of trans people are not actively trying to deceive, lie, defraud, misrepresent, or victimize you by not telling you in the first sentence they are trans. Seriously, think of how exhausting that would be, ON TOP of already being different than you expect. Please, just consider, that may be how they try to survive in the world. That living as the gender (not sex) they are IS authentic, truthful and honest to themselves. Even though, you can’t understand or relate to the situation they are in. Whoever the Pro the OP met, didn’t handle the scenario perfectly, and that’s likely because they are human, and humans often handle many situations poorly. IMPO, Cuddling is just as much a brain activity as a body one, and if the brain is not part of your cuddle experience, I think that’s a sad thing for you to have absent from your experience. If you feel you need to continue to school me on how trans people need to behave, please refrain from tagging me. I no longer want to engage with you about this topic.
Removed - disrespectful and not conducive to genuine exchange of opinion. [Mark]
Removed - Let's try and avoid memes for such a sensitive subject. I appreciate it was in response to the above though. [Mark]
@FunCartel I'd be interested in checking out some of these boner threads you mention. I don't see those come up ? nearly as often as these "OMG, I almost got touched by a trans!" threads.
@DaForceofNature
Free to identify pretty much however you want. Though, be honest about it to others.
I could identify as a kitten. That doesn't mean I should walk into a veterinary clinic when I need treatment. At some point, I need to face the fact that I have a human body. Same thing with trans, etc. people, they need to be honest about it. If someone doesn't want to cuddle with someone that has a d. Or breas. Edit: Or any other anomally. end of edit. It's their right! They should not be misled into that situation. Also, as already said by other/s, and myself: being dishonest about this can put the trans person in much unnecessary danger, and hassle. Along with all the other issues listed that it can cause for both parties.
Edit: Saying: "I am a transwoman/etc." It's not exhausting. Not saying it in this context is dishonesty where one is looking to get up close, and personal! I also have to 'come out' to others about having physical disability. I further explain once people contact me. I understand that not everyone is okay with this. Even if they may initially say: "No problem..." I even tell them, if you are not okay with, it's okay! Which it is. Most people have respect for those who handle situations like these in similar manner. Those who go off on the person in message: why risk them even finding out you/ are trans by meeting/getting real close with them?? I already went into depth about this. Though, it's possible you didn't see. end of edit.
IMPO, Cuddling is just as much a brain activity as a body one, and if the brain is not part of your cuddle experience, I think that’s a sad thing for you to have absent from your experience.
???? SOMEBODY GETS IT!
In my opinion everybody loses out when they hold a transphobic mindset and fail to account for a person's whole being. I've lost one of my best friends (who came out to me as MtF) because of my own failures in that department. This was years ago and I wish we hadn't fallen out because she was really one of my favourite people, and I see now that nothing really changed about her except for how she wanted to look on the outside. Her brilliant and snarky mind was still there, which was the thing I appreciated most. I just didn't understand, but that's no excuse for ignorance. When she began transitioning and was talking to me about it, I felt like I was losing 'Tyler' bit by bit as she became 'Lex'. I began to see her as a separate person I never knew. I started avoiding her and not answering her, and at the time I thought it was just my depression, but I know now that I definitely had some issues going on with her transition. My acceptance and support was probably needed more than ever and, pardon the language, I f'd it up big time. Now I can never have that friendship back because she's removed any online trail to her old name that I can find, and she's assumed a new identity - one I made a poor, slow choice to not be part of, simply out of plain ignorance.
If you take issue with what's between somebody's legs, or what they identify as, I think it's time to start asking some questions as to why that is. With that said, we are all subject to our own perception and set of values. Awareness doesn't happen overnight - sure didn't for me... it took years.
I appreciate the input from @Mesatta , being the target population of whom the thread addresses . I agree that vast majority of the time trans folks are transparent about it, especially with the reality that their safety may be at risk , which is extremely unfortunate . I look forward to a day when nobody has to hide their true selves . I also feel it is not right to make jokes and trivialize something that is important to another just because it is not our reality or personally affects us. We aren't in grade school
@Lovelight Who are you to say it's not exhausting coming out as trans all the time? Do you know what it's like? Have you personally witnessed what that life is like? Having to constantly defend that you exist is exhausting. Trans people are a such small minority of people, yet they are expected to let you know they are trans right away? It's a very personal thing that not everyone needs to know. Why is their privacy not as important? It seems as though they are held to a standard very few people are held to, simply because you don't relate to their experience. I don't understand why you feel the need to convince me that trans people are intentionally misleading people. I respectfully disagree with that notion. Not sharing personal medical information with the world is not misleading fraudulent or whatever you choose to call it. Catfishing is an intentional act, being trans isn't a choice anyone makes willingly. I grow weary of the argument that trans people are dishonest or misleading simply because they are different than your expectations. Thank you @Catloaf for your honesty about your friend and your experience.
@Catloaf it is NOT transphobic to not want to cuddle with someone that doesn’t have the body of the sex that one wants to cuddle with. To say, or imply so is a disservice to people actually facing transphobia.
@DaForceofNature people shouldn’t force, and mislead their anomalies on others. When someone hides the fact that they are trans from others, they are misleading them. People have the right to be intimate with those that have the body of the sex they are okay with. As well as make an informed decision. When people cuddle they are not physically * cuddling with someone’s brain. As you said:
”What you don't understand is that the brains of trans people MATCH the gender they identify as, even though the body doesn't. That's where your fraud/catfishing argument falls apart for me.”
The body doesn’t. Right! So, people have the right to not cuddle with a body that does not match!
The same way I am upfront about my own health condition because I understand that it’s an anomaly, and everyone isn’t okay with: cuddling with someone that has a physical disability. They also have that right! It’s not a must to be upfront right away. Though, people deserve to know before they go to meet, and even more so, before they get into an intimate situation!!
Like I said, if someone is so afraid to be honest about it beforehand. Getting up close, and personal where many times a person can sense. Or even feel the difference: is not advisable for the safety of trans people, either. Even though, that sense of this person is man, trans, etc. isn’t always spot on. There are times that it is! If someone can’t be honest about the fact that they are trans, then they need to come back when they can. People have a right to not be mislead into cuddling/being intimate with a body that doesn’t match what the person presents as.
I don’t anymore hold the position saying: “it’s not exhausting.” It can be. Remembering how sometimes tedious it can be for me coming out with my disability, as well. Edit: along with some of the emotional toll it can take. end of edit. Though, it’s on the person to take a break when need be, and be honest. Getting up close with someone that may tell that* you are a trans person, not advised! Being honest about it, and letting others make an informed decision, advised!
@CardiacKid I've removed your post. Controversial opinions are fine but must be respectful. Calling someone a 'trans apologist' is suggesting being transsexual is something to apologise for. And then followed by that joke/meme just makes your post overall very disrespectful and certainly not conducive to genuine discussion and debate.
I'm posting this so everyone understands that controversial posts regardless of who gets offended are usually ok here but absolutely must be expressed in a respectful way in order to be protected by our forum principle of open discussion.
I think everyone is so busy labeling each other and trying to get their main point across that everyone forgot that we are talking about an isolated incident that made a member nervous. The member was not given all the information and they felt uncomfortable—that does not make them transphobic nor does it condemn the entire trans community. It was more likely the exception to the rule, but the member is entitled to feel uncomfortable if he felt uncomfortable at the time. It is not incumbent upon the customer to investigate every pro to determine their true gender, nor do they have to accept everyone because not all pros do either. You may not like it, but I am sure a trans person would not want to cuddle a member of a hate group either. This is why calling people transphobic or a redneck is counterproductive—it only amps up the cacophony of negativity. No one comes over to your way of thinking or compromises when they are labeled and derided.
@Mark
Clearly you don't know the definition of APOLOGIST. I looked it up for you:
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. "an enthusiastic apologist for fascism in the 1920s" synonyms: defender, supporter, upholder, advocate, proponent, exponent, propagandist, apostle, champion, backer, promoter, campaigner, spokesman, spokeswoman, spokesperson, speaker, arguer, enthusiast "an apologist for hard-line government policies"
@Mark How is my opinion "controversial "? Well over half the population agrees with those who are transphobic.
Frankly, you need to show me where I have even given my opinion.
I notice the immediately following post, using a derogatory word for a Male homosexual is left in place.
@CardiacKid Please consider the context and intent of how the word is often used in these types of interactions.
An apologist is a person who argues in favor of something unpopular. Apologists tend to be seen in a negative light, as defensive people who make excuses.
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/apologist
I might have otherwise been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you used the word in its technical non-emotive form. However, considering your comment was accompanied by a disrespectful meme, that changes the overall assessment.
@CardiacKid I can’t speak for what’s been removed as I don’t even recall now. Nor* the use of said word “trans apologist.”
Though, the comic you are referencing from my understanding, it’s trying to poke fun at homo/trans/etc. phobes that use that line of reasoning. Where calling one fa—— can in many cases be homophobic. Although, not everyone that debate these issues, or pronouns is necessarily homophobic. People can debate things in a respectful manner, and at times it’s a case of agree to disagree.
My comment was a response to transphobic opinions in general, not necessarily about whether it's transphobic if you don't want to cuddle someone who is trans. I can only glean, but I might assume that someone who doesn't want to cuddle with a transperson might be doing so out of ignorance or inexperience being around transpersons... kind of like how you believed in the "To any racists out there" thread that someone not wanting to cuddle with people of a different race might be pointing in the direction of someone having some racial prejudices at play. But I do digress.
Before this topic turns into any more of a dumpster fire than it already is, I'm definitely taking my exit now!
Right about now is when a thread is closed.....I feel my mental telepathy at work.
@Catloaf what you said now, I agree with that line of reasoning you just applied.
Though, my point is that one should work on overcoming any misconceptions, etc., they may have about who they get intimate with through informed decision, and at their own free will. That unfortunately, wasn’t the case in this post, and other cases alike. At the end of the day, if someone simply does not want to cuddle with someone that was not born with the body of the sex they identify with: then, it’s also their right. Same as to not want to cuddle with someone who’s skin color they do not prefer.
I must say... this discussion flared up like a plague!
Closed. 14 JUN 2019 16:21 EDT
^^ In closing, the official position on the original matter is that all profiles should be accurate, particularly for Pros.