For me the highest form of self love and self care is being intimate with my partner(s) and reclaiming that part of myself after it was stolen from me. It depends on the person. Their situation. What they want from their bodies and their partner(s). For some people practicing celibacy is a form of self love and self care. For me that would be a form or repression, which I already have a tendency to do. Nobody should dictate someone's sexuality.
@DarrenWalker - You have mentioned the benefits of celibacy are attributes largley in relationship to the act of being sexually active.
If you find men being horndogs as funny, or at least cliche enough to be tossed out and fully understood as such amongst a group of men, I can see where abstinence may provide mental and emotional benefits. It seems sort of hardwired into the laissez-faire adage, horndog.
So yes. Horndogs may benefit in a way that you would not from abstaining.
You have mentioned the benefits of celibacy are attributes largley in relationship to the act of being sexually active.
...I have?
As somebody who abstains from sex and marriage myself, I think the main benefit is having more time to read. That's my favorite benefit. For folks who abstain but still want what they're abstaining from, I guess it might make them feel good about being so self-controlled. And if they planned on going for it later, it might be a build-up type thing.
Not sure how me knowing what slang words mean (and expecting other people to know them too) helps you "see where abstinence may provide mental and emotional benefits" for me.
I've got a good vocabulary, and so far as I know the word "horndog" doesn't have anything about the benefits of abstinence hardwired into it. Just means "somebody who's super horny and only has that one thing on their mind"—and these days the word "horndog" can be applied to a particularly horny member of any sex, btw.
@DarrenWalker Yes you have.
"Can it be seen as the highest form of self-love?" Only if non-celibacy is somehow lower. If celibacy is a thing you're doing because you love yourself, then it's a form of self-love. But is it the purest form? Eheheheheh. Only if marriage and/or sex are impure! Does a celibate mind allow a deeper more enriching cuddle experience? Deeper than what? More enriching than what?
I can see where being asexual might leave you unmoved to the practice of abstinence. But in the case of a sex addict, then I would say that it could "put your mind in a state where it can reach its highest potential."
@PeopleLikeUs: ...Is it weird that the benefits of, say, not eating toast should show up clearest in comparison with the results you get from actually eating toast?
And yet it seems kind of silly to insist that someone who doesn't crave toast can't possibly understand the true benefits of toastlessness. If you're addicted to toast, your problem isn't the toast! Addiction to anything is an issue. Get rid of the addiction, and stop focusing so much on the toast—it's just toast. Kicking the addiction is what gives you that psychological boost.
@DarrenWalker - yes I agree. As you have stated it is all in relation to what a person does or does not do or experiences like @taulkat mentioned. There are l lot of circumstances either innate or imposed that might influence a person's choice.
@PeopleLikeUs: [slowly] ...Right....
So a ridiculously vague and tautological thread in which somebody asks leading questions like "Can abstaining from sex be seen as the highest form of self-love?" and people respond "Only if having sex can be seen as a lesser form of self-love"—this isn't a waste of time, because it's all men responding to a woman (except it isn't, because hi).
Edit:
"Is this thing good?" "Only for the people it's good for." "But is it really good?" "Yes, for the people it's really good for."
Oh, excellent. This isn't a waste of time at all. [/sarcasm]
@DarrenWalker Yes. That's why I mentioned sexual addiction because in that case, sex can be a lower form of self-love. Addiction might not be as easy to get rid of. Chemically addicted folks know the ongoing difficulty with that process, and yes, total avoidance is part of that scene.
@PeopleLikeUs: Ah. So you enjoy stating the obvious. "This thing is good for the people it's good for. In fact, it's really good for the people it's really good for!" At some point doubtless somebody else will turn up and repeat that "This thing is bad for the people it's bad for—in fact, it's really bad for the people it's really bad for!"
And this will not be a foolish discussion or a waste of time because, and I quote, "a woman started this thread and only men followed. In that regard, this thread is not a waste at all."
Hahahahaha
Yeah, it's not a waste of time because men suck at abstinence. Men have more to learn from women in that regard.
@PeopleLikeUs: ...Well, you made me laugh. So there's that.
Yeah, men suck at abstinence [Note: this is sarcasm], so spending hours repeating "abstinence is good for the people it's good for and bad for the people it's bad for!" is totally not a waste of time.
People in general suck at abstinence, the same way people have issues with dieting or getting fit when they're used to eating what they want and lounging about. Men might have a harder time with it than women because of all that testosterone but I can't imagine it's that much of a difference? there doesn't seem to be much in the way of a consensus on that which doesn't rely heavily on stereotyping (which does have some value, but isn't really reliable).
"Any discussion between men about men not having sex is worthwhile" doesn't hold true if the discussion isn't productive, done honestly or is done badly.
Also @DarrenWalker you just reminded me of the lyrics of the good book by Tim Minchin, good times.
@Zundar: The times were good, and they were good times. You can't have a good time without times that are good, you know—so when I want good times, it's to the times that are good that I go.
Yup. Good times.
(Also, my married sisters sometimes complain that their husbands just don't want it enough... so I think sex drive's probably an individual thing, rather than something you naturally get less (or more) of if you happen to be physically female. Probably.)
@Zundar If men practiced abstinence they would not be as likely to pay for sex. That market would change.
It's easy for men (or they, their, them as the case may be, I forgot, please forgive me) to write off any discussion about things men are bad at as "a waste of time."
@PeopleLikeUs wrote:
@Zundar If men practiced abstinence they would not be as likely to pay for sex.
That is so nonsensical. Anyone who practices abstinence is not having sex. Whether or not someone pays for sex is irrelevant because if you have sex you would not be abstinent.
However, it does show potential for someday being the POTUS.
It’s cool how the nonsensical, pointless thread has spawned a nonsensical, pointless tangent.
It’s like a smaller mutant growing out of a larger one. A vestigial horror of sorts, wriggling and gibbering.
@PeopleLikeUs: "It's good for the people it's good for and bad for the people it's bad for" is a waste of time no matter who's good (or bad) at whatever the thing under discussion is.
A stupid question is a stupid question no matter who asks it, and a waste of time is a waste of time no matter who's wasting it... and to ground this principle in immediate reality, "Is celibacy the purest, highest, bestest form of self-love?" is a stupid question, and going round and round with "Yes, for the people it's the purest highest bestest form of self-love for, but not for the people for whom it's not" is a waste of time.
Yes, even if a woman asked the question. It would have been a stupid question even if a man (or an enby, or an intersex person) had asked it. That's the thing about stupid questions: No matter who asks them, they stay stupid.
And even if it had been purely a bunch of straight cis men going round and round, it would still be a waste of time. That's the thing about wastes of time: They stay wastes of time no matter who's involved. Kind of like this thread, out of which I should probably get....
Oh, hey, @hogboblin. Nice to see you.
If this thread gets shut down, it will be because of your disrespect for the original post, @Bles as being stupid.
I don't know Bles, @PeopleLikeUs. She might not be stupid at all. But, see, here's the thing about stupid questions: They stay stupid even if a smart person asks them.
@PeopleLikeUs
You’re really, really bad at reading things and understanding them.
I know this thread has just been circular, but it was also pretty amusing
The whole premise that celibacy would solve all sexually related problems might not be true.
—Father Flannery Prisoner 6296619439
@hogboblin: Well, he does seem to be having problems today. But one never knows—it might just be a bad day for reading comprehension on his end. That does happen sometimes. "Can't brain today" is a meme for a reason.
@taulkat: Sometimes spinning in circles is fun. It's kinda like being a kid again! (You don't want to do it ad nauseam, though.)
@taulkat Yes. Men talking about abstinence, or trying to anyway. A rare moment in male feminism.
Yeah. Maybe next we can get a thread about tree nuts and self-love.
OP "Can not eating peanuts be seen as the highest form of self-love?"
SwellGuy "For those who're allergic, it's definitely pretty high up there."
NutsForNuts "Some people really like peanuts, though! Abstaining wouldn't be self-love at all."
And so on.
Bonus comment: "If men didn't eat peanuts, they'd be less likely to pay for peanuts."
@PeopleLikeUs I think what is missing here is the understanding that abstinence doesn't have to be self love of part of male feminism. And a man lecturing a woman (me) about feminism in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The biggest thing we can ask for as your partners (as humans) is enthusiastic consent with whomever you chose to express your sexuality with. And to not look for that expression here. And if you are asexual, that is fantastic! I respect you. If you chose to be celibate for your personal growth, I respect you! I hope you find peace and can continue to grow as a person.
Calling something an ism is in the eye of the beholder.
And sometimes celibacy is just a cover-up for someone who can’t separate dating behavior from platonic behavior so they dummy down their life. That is just one of countless interpretations of celibacy.
Celibacy is not an ism, it is a choice. It is not love. It is not even a philosophical construct. It is a personal choice to not have sex. Period. The motivations are endless—poor self-esteem, social anxiety, because it’s fashionable, religion etc.
@taulkat I liked @Bles openness about self-love being "a social construct that one is free to deconstruct." I can see why she would connect self-love with abstinence or celibacy. I can also see why she would bow out of the conversation when she did. CC forums are not known for being empathic, but again I think that is largely a male issue as is the inability of men to practice abstinence.
@PeopleLikeUs human sexuality is very complex. Why do you think it is harder for men to be abstinent?