The virtue of patience

BotWithFeelingsBotWithFeelings
in General

So, in my life it seems like patience has always been a detriment. The longer I wait for an outcome the worse the payoff, if any becomes. I have begun to believe that patience is a terrible virtue. Perhaps this forum can help me change my mind. After all, waiting on others is the most painful sort of wait.

Comments

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    Time’s up. Move along.

    But seriously, patience is a virtue. I wish I had more and I have developed more as I have aged. But I am still jealous of those who can be patient. Impatience comes in handy in certain situations if you are a decisive person and generally make good judgements and decisions, but I see the intrinsic value of patience. Don’t change who you are. And welcome to the forum.

  • quixotic_lifequixotic_life

    @lonelybutmaybe ~ Whenever I realize I'm being patient, a tiny little bell in my mind lightly dings and I smile thinking, "Look at you using your adulting skills ~ Way to go self!" and if standing I might even rock forward up onto my toes for a sec. All of which is then immediately followed by a slight chuckle, and a judging eye roll, because I just did all that, (there by diminishing the value of my self-awarded "adulting points") and probably looking like a complete weirdo in the process too.

    Anyway ~ I'd like to echo what @FunCartel said, "... I see the intrinsic value of patience. Don’t change who you are. And welcome to the forum."

  • FlyingToasterFlyingToaster

    I think patience is generally a good virtue. But it seems to me some things need you to act fast. So I think it's all about timing. Many decisions do benefit from being patient, as you wouldn't want to make a quick decision and find out later you made a bad one. Consider a salesman, who will focus on all the good things about what they're selling tp push you to buy it - but you might benefit from waiting and doing more research so you can make your own informed decision.

  • [Deleted User]cualtzin (deleted user)

    Patience is indeed a virtue. But it all depends on what you’re waiting for. Are you waiting for someone to change, and finally see the light, and come on over to your side? Good luck with that. But there’s another type of patience. Where you build on something step by step. And yes, you wait for each other to catch up.

  • BotWithFeelingsBotWithFeelings

    Well, everyone has made some good points. I'd argue that persistence, where you don't give up, is better than patience, where you wait.

  • [Deleted User]cualtzin (deleted user)

    @lonelybutmaybe Perfect way to sum it up.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod
    edited November 2020

    With the greatest respect, I submit that the OP may have confused patience with hope.

    Patience is waiting for something that is certain, or nearly certain, to happen. The toaster to pop up. The bus to arrive. The calendar to roll round to Christmas Day.

    Hope is when the outcome is not at all certain. And hoping that a particular person will do a particular thing is usually foolishness.

    This is not negative thinking, it is a matter of logic because they have usually had the opportunity to do the thing and haven't done it. It is therefore unlikely they will do it in the future, having already rejected doing it.

    Persistence is different. It is continuing to do an unpleasant task in the expectation of a positive payoff. It is intrinsically a virtue, but there are two problems.

    Firstly, humans tend to miscalculate the probability.

    Secondly, western society tends to over-value persistence for a number of different reasons.

    So I say to @lonelybutmaybe, think carefully about what it is that you are doing, and the circumstances in which you are doing it. Make sure you are applying the right labels, and judging the probabilities realistically.

    Patience is a virtue. Patience is waiting without being an arse about it.

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    @CuddleDuncan: That's well put—patience vs. hope. And very logical, too. Well said.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @CuddleDuncan Certainty is not a component of patience. For example, one can be patient with someone whose behavior is poor but then lose patience with them. Minorities patiently await change but the change may never come in their lifetime.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod
    edited November 2020

    Actually yes @FunCartel you are completely right.

    Perhaps it is just that my final definition - posted in an edit to my post after you wrote - is right. Patience is just waiting without being an arse about it. Irrespective of the outcome probability.

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    @FunCartel: Perhaps the English language doesn't have the right words to express this dichotomy.

    For me, "patience" has always implied a sort of passivity, in which one does nothing to alter whatever it is they're bearing—they simply suffer patiently whatever's happening, without that patience doing anything to change anything, nor even anticipating any change, particularly (that would be anticipation or hope, not patience).

    Really useful when nothing you do is going to change anything! Not quite so helpful otherwise.

    "Hope" also strikes me as a passive thing: you hope, but you don't necessarily work. Thoughts and prayers, essentially. Good wishes. Hope. And it's not always patient: someone hoping for a better situation might not bear up under their current one very well.

    And persistence, well... working towards a goal is all well and good, but it's also a good idea to pay attention to things like when it makes more sense to give up, or try something different.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @DarrenWalker Patience can imply passivity or activity. You are forgetting context. I am patiently working to make you understand that patience is a multi-faceted word. The closest word to patience, albeit from my point of view, is tolerance. I may be patiently working, but I may not like it one bit; but by having patience I am able to tolerate the task.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    I concur with the association of patience and tolerance.

    Ah, I love the smell of semantics in the morning!

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    @FunCartel: I'm almost definitely not phrasing this right.

    The argument is that patiently waiting for a certainty is good, but simply hoping for better (but uncertain) things won't get you anywhere—and maybe English isn't the best language to make this argument in, since patience often implies passivity... but not always.

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