If I buy/sell a cuddle does that mean the true spirit of a mutual cuddle is lost? Possible answers: yes/no/be pragmatic and let go
If you buy a birthday cake...
If I buy a cake ... more of me to cuddle ...
I don't think the value of a cuddle is lost just because it's a paid service. I see it as the difference between confiding in a friend versus a therapist. Both are great, but they have different roles. My therapist can provide something my friends cannot, and vice versa.
Define what you mean by 'true spirit'. And how come you posit three possible answers and then give us only two to choose from?
I have the same question as @UKGuy. Why offer five options and only offer 2? Useless poll when you do that.
Agree with others that more options would be nice.
@quixotic_life I'm going to respectfully challenge that analogy The purpose of buying a cake is to enjoy a delicious slice of cake - the more it fits your needs, the better. Some people want it as tasty as possible, some want a healthy variety, but there are different products that market to that need. If you want to be able to make a delicious cake by scratch by yourself, buying a cake is not going to help you very much, other than knowing what good cake tastes like.
The way I see it with cuddling, is that people seek it for human contact, which buying it or getting that mutually both satisfy. However, some people also want the more emotional part, the part that says that you are valued enough to someone else that they can rely on you and be vulnerable with you - this buying cannot get. A client may develop this relationship with a professional overtime, but it's not something that can just be bought.
So this was a little simplistic, but that's the general way I see it atleast
no
@sunnysideup ~ 🙂
Some people buy cakes because they aren't confident in their abilities to make one, even from a mix, let alone decorate it. Or because they don't have the time to invest.
Thankfully, due to the wide ranges of cake needs we may have, from a informal party to a grand gala, there are a range of cakes to be purchased ~ from the grocery store, to a professional "5 star" bakery. Though quality isn't guaranteed, we can consult their websites for details about what they provide, read their mission statement if available and even look over customer reviews to determine which bakery will be best able to meet our needs.
Some may even be so fortunate to form a connection with their local baker who they will repeatedly give business to because they know what they're paying for is above and beyond because it's made with love and care for their clients and are living their dream.
"...some people also want the more emotional part, the part that says that you are valued enough to someone else that they can rely on you and be vulnerable with you - this buying cannot get. A client may develop this relationship with a professional overtime, but it's not something that can just be bought."
It's true that an emotional connection may not be bought, but we don't get it for free either. In fact we don't "get" it at all. That one feels they have value, and can be reliability available to receive another's vulnerability, comes from a cultivation within us. And if it isn't there (yet), at least there's cake (and baker's who can help meet some of the other needs we have, thus lessening some of the other burdens that come with hosting/attending some of life's parties).
Also simplistic, but this is the gist behind my, "If you buy a birthday cake..." comment". 🙂
Many thanks everyone! It is a delight to read the comments, i feel happier and relaxed. Just to answer a few questions: the option to comment is there already so picking any option vs a comment is available also ... next, whatever true spirit means to you is cool! Just answer whatever you feel... I deliberately left it a bit incomplete to spark comments in order to learn from everyone...
In your langage, I buy cuddles. However, I don't think I do, and the people who sell them to me don't think that either. You can't really buy a cuddle. What you are buying is the time, skills and professionalism of the pro cuddler. The cuddle itself is free.
It's not the same as the cuddle of a partner of course. But then the cuddle of a partner is not the same as the cuddle of a child. A pro cuddle is its own thing. You don't 'lose' emotional value, in the same way that you don't 'lose' anything if you switch from a carrot to an onion. They have their own virtues. Pro cuddles can be much more emotionally rewarding than partner ones, because the flow of care is one-way: you don't have to care as much for the pro as they are supposed to care for you. In other words there is a good argument to say that pro cuddles, in their own way, are better than mutual cuddles.
I have had some truly wonderful cuddles with pro cuddlers. And even with the one or two that felt a bit like 'vending machine cuddles', they were still happy and worthwhile experiences with all the benefits of being close to another human being.
@cuddleduncan But it looks like some people believe they do lose something as seen in the poll because it is different than a cuddle freely given without reward. You cannot logic it out because the act of cuddling is in many ways, an emotional act for many people and emotions, and the way people feel, often defies logic. You can debate until the cows come home that they have not lost anything, but if something feels different to them, then they believe it. And belief is what has built the world’s greatest religions, despite the logic provided by evidence. People feel their religion. People also feel cuddling. And for some, they feel the transactional component makes the sincerity of the cuddle dubious. People are all different and feelings are sloppy and spill out of bowls full of logic.
@FunCartel: That's very logical, actually. People's feelings are premises that differ from person to person—obviously someone who has "a cuddle I pay for doesn't feel like a real cuddle" in their premises isn't going to conclude that pro cuddles are just as satisfying as enthusiast cuddles!
All true, @FunCartel, all true.
The thing is, that in really good professional cuddling you gain something. (Which at least partly offsets the things you may have lost.)
This is an intensely personal remark: I have felt a sense of care and being held in a pro cuddle that I have never felt in a mutual cuddle. It has been quite a big deal for me.
@DarrenWalker The logic is that one person’s logic is illogical to the next person when it comes to how they feel, and what one defines as logically a loss, is illogical to a person who sees it as a gain. Tomorrow those feelings could do a 180 because that’s the way they feel that day. Feelings are slippery creatures that can change from moment-to-moment. Psychology provides a patina of logic to feelings and emotions, but any psychologist will tell you there is so much we do not know as well, and as a result, therapy has changed and adapted over decades—because the slipperiness of the human persona eludes an overarching definition or monolithic logic.
@FunCartel: Oh dear.
Look, that's like saying each person has their own math because the space between one person's bookcase and wall is different from the space between another person's bookcase and wall. One plus one always equals two, even if you've moved house or gotten new furniture, and so now you're adding different numbers.
When the feelings change, the conclusions they logically add up to change as well.
If I value a jigsaw puzzle over a book just because the puzzle was a gift from someone I care for and so my feelings about them have transferred to the puzzle a bit, that's logical—and if I stop caring about the person, it makes perfect sense that I'd value the book more than the puzzle now.
And if I don't know why my respective valuations have changed, why! that doesn't mean there isn't any logical reason. Just that I don't know it.
I can buy a cake and quality (ie it’s wholesome and not stale ) is pretty much guaranteed . Also you can call any bakery and order a vanilla sponge cake iced with chocolate buttercream and can you call a pro cuddler and will they will arrived dressed in Pajamas if you request.
@DarrenWalker But if you don’t know the logic as stated at the end of the post, then you can’t assume that you will know it. You hope you will know it, but you will have to patiently over analyze and perhaps you will come to know the logic but you may never know the logic. In the words of Iris Dement, sometimes it is just better to “Let the Mystery Be”. Having to constantly apply logic to every facet of life does not necessarily improve it or offer comfort. There is logic in some human systems that many of us would rather see 🔥.
What I understand from everyone till now is that something may be missing (or not) when buying/selling a hug, nevertheless so much more and different is gained especially if both cuddlers are genuinely following cuddling rules ... thoughts, comments?
@FunCartel: I'd rather know the truth than not know it, no matter how unpleasant it may be. After all, if a thing is really truly so, then it's really truly so even if you're completely ignorant of it—and ignorance seems unlikely to protect you from things that really truly exist, doesn't it?
Not knowing every step of the logical equation doesn't keep the equation from being logical... and identifying the components can help you change the conclusion to something you like better.
Even if it doesn't, at least you understand what's going on now. And me, I like knowledge.
@craM wins the prize for the briefest complete answer.
Ya know, if all I want is a cuddle, whether I pay for it or not, I'm gonna get a cuddle (one might argue the cuddle will be more reliable from a pro since an enthusiast can change their mind at the last minute but a pro is likely to follow through. Depending on the pro, I might get a snootful of lovin' too, or a stiff board who's just in it to pay the rent.
If I'm wanting other stuff, like proof of my love-ability, someone wanting me as much as I want them, etc. etc. then no, it's not the same thing, that is, if somehow my belief is that someone cuddling me for free means I'm lovable and wantable. But I would suggest that trying to get proof of these things from the outside is destined for eventual failure anyway. To me no amount of cuddling is going to fill the hole in our hearts for very long and in my world, that's an inside job.
@FunCartel love this sentence: "People are all different and feelings are sloppy and spill out of bowls full of logic."
@littermate: The idea that logic and emotion are opposed is, apparently, one I'll be refuting publicly until the day I die.
Logic is a process. It works with facts and feelings the same way math works with numbers and measurements. Do measurements "spill out of bowls full of math"? Not hardly—despite the fact that the things people measure are all different, and many measurements are remarkably sloppy.
The math can still be correct even if the numbers don't match reality! It's just math, after all; just logic; the process doesn't guarantee the accuracy of the variables you plugged in.
But it's hardly opposed to them. Being too good at math doesn't erase your ability to make measurements (messy or otherwise).
It is different when you buy something for yourself vs. receiving it as a gift. The tangible end result is identical but the mindset is different for each case. I feel a greater connection with something I receive as a gift, because I associate the giver with the gift, so it has more value and emotional significance to me, especially if I have a meaningful relationship with the giver.
@DarrenWalker
Some people are so rigid, they insist that 1+1 only ever equals 2, and 2+2 only ever equals 4, etc.
But that's not always true because sometimes... 1 + 1 can equal anywhere between 2 and 4 -and- 2 + 2 can equal anywhere between 4 and 6 etc.
By either "1" being between 1 and 1.9 then rounding the sum. -and- By either "2" being between 2 and 2.9 then rounding the sum. etc.
"Being too good at math doesn't erase your ability" to be a creative or to think both inside and outside the bowl, or to consider how things may factor differently, based on the bowl's content's ("messy or otherwise") either.
Edit: Whoops! Typo!
@quixotic_life: So long as 1 is 1 and 2 is 2, and the math is being done in base ten, 1+1 will only ever equal 2. And that's good, because it's the reliability of the process that preserves accuracy.
@DarrenWalker ~ From my point of view it just depends on what we're measuring...
@quixotic_life: Right—the variables will definitely change. It's the process that stays the same.
@HUGGGGGG ~ Is the weighing and consideration of measurement, values, processes, etc. still within the realm of helping answer the questions you've posed in this, "Reasoning it out..." thread?
ORIGINAL: If I buy/sell a cuddle does that mean the true spirit of a mutual cuddle is lost? Possible answers: yes/no/be pragmatic and let go How much of the emotional value is lost? • A little bit • Does it even matter ... FOLLOW UP: What I understand from everyone till now is that something may be missing (or not) when buying/selling a hug, nevertheless so much more and different is gained especially if both cuddlers are genuinely following cuddling rules ... thoughts, comments?
ORIGINAL: If I buy/sell a cuddle does that mean the true spirit of a mutual cuddle is lost? Possible answers: yes/no/be pragmatic and let go How much of the emotional value is lost? • A little bit • Does it even matter ...
FOLLOW UP: What I understand from everyone till now is that something may be missing (or not) when buying/selling a hug, nevertheless so much more and different is gained especially if both cuddlers are genuinely following cuddling rules ... thoughts, comments?
To me, all the weighing and considerations are like metaphors still answering the questions related to logic and emotions. To others though, it may seem like an unraveling is happening. As the OP, I was hoping you could "consider" all this and "weigh" in with your opinion.
🤔⚖/👨⚖️ Thanks!
I've sometimes heard "2 + 2 = 5 for large values of 2"
Okay @DarrenWalker.
Definitely, without a doubt, absolutely 100%, whole-heartedly believe money corrupts the heart’s intent.