Hello, I am new to cuddling, and I would like to do it professionally. Could someone tell me how much is the standard rate for cuddling? Thank you, Jordan
I see that you only cuddle women. I hate to break it to you, but the odds that a woman is going to pay to cuddle with you is very, very slim.
Not to be negative here but john1500 is correct. Most successful male professionals cuddle men and women. I think I heard that only 3% of pros on here are male but not sure if all of them are successful. Don't want you to not go for what you have in mind so hopefully it'll be a success! If cuddling women only I'd aim more at the $50 and if you're going to include men then I'd think a higher price would work. Good luck!
Moving this to Pro Cuddling forum. @Jason_daniel - you will need to apply for Pro.
The thread How to make a lot of money as a male professional has advice about rates.
@CuddleDuncan Do you have a link to that thread?
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/10371/how-to-make-a-lot-of-money-as-a-male-cuddle-professional#top
I thought it was still on page one of this board but it had dropped to page two. Outrageous!!
The problem is still that very very few women will ever pay a man to cuddle them.
There is no evidence for that whatsoever, it's just a myth that somebody made up. The truth is that there are legions of lonely, touch-deprived women out there, particularly over forty.
On this site I have encountered several women who are desperate to pay a man to cuddle them.
There is no evidence for that whatsoever, it's just a myth that somebody made up
Seriously? How about the fact that they just don't do it (with very rare exceptions). That seems like abundant evidence to me. Really, if it's actually feasible for a male pro to get female clients on a regular basis... why does it never happen? On a regular basis you can watch new male pros show up here, get zero clients, and then disappear.
I have just searched on professional men who cuddle women within 300 miles of Las Vegas and have logged in over the last month. There were 19 such profiles.
Here are my results. (Note that the order will have changed by the time you read this, in a random way, even assuming your search yields precisely the same results as mine.)
Face and body photos ...... 0 0 0 0 1 / 0 1 1 1 0 / 0 0 1 0 0 / 1 1 1 1 .................. TOTAL (/19) ... 9 Karma ................................. 0 1 1 0 1 / 1 1 0 0 0 / 0 0 0 0 0 / 0 0 0 1 .................. TOTAL (/19) ... 6 Text > 200 words ............... 0 1 1 0 0 / 0 0 0 0 0 / 0 0 0 0 1 / 0 0 1 0 .................. TOTAL (/19) ... 4 TOTAL (/3) ........................... 0 2 2 0 2 / 1 2 1 2 0 / 0 0 1 0 1 / 1 1 2 2
Face and body photos means, do you have a photo that shows your face clearly, and a photo (possibly the same one) that shows most of you clearly. (My 'favourite' was a main profile pic of the professional in a mask, sitting on a bench with a lifesize, plastic, Ronald Macdonald.)
Karma means any Karma at all. It mostly appeared to be from professionals, although I didn't check.
Text > 200 words means did you write a worthwhile amount. I have not made any subjective assessment of the profile text, but several of the long ones were ... umm .... in my opinion governed more by enthusiasm than thoughtfulness.
In all cases I have erred on the side of generosity.
The only profile which conveyed a serious attempt at professionalism (karma and text) had no photos of the professional at all, only a stock image. (Which is a breach of the TOS.)
In other words, the number of people who are plausibly hirable as professional is a big fat zero. None of them even have a profile as good as mine, which means that none of them even reach the standard of a convincing enthusiast, never mind a professional.
if it's actually feasible for a male pro to get female clients on a regular basis... why does it never happen?
Because nobody has ever seriously tried. Well, technically nobody within 300 miles of Vegas is seriously trying at the moment, as the evidence above clearly demonstrates. But there is no reason to think that today is an untypical snapshot.
I have never seen a male professional profile on CC that was even within shouting distance of adequate. If you know of one, please tell me.
I understand that there are serious, genuine men professionals outside CC, but there are none in the UK and I haven't looked into it.
What's wrong with any of these profiles of male pros?
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/AJKirsch
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/Serraphin
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/JustinLD
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/EdthePanda
(There does appear to be one karma left from a female non-pro on one of those.)
Really, plenty of male pros I see seem perfectly adequate. Especially when compared to the profiles of female pros.
Back when I was actually interested in cuddling non-pro women, I had an extensive profile, several decent pictures of myself, and eventually tons of glowing karma (from pros). I'd send out lots of what seemed to me to be polite and interesting opening messages to non-pros and I pretty much never got a single reply. But you're telling me if only I had charged $80/hr they'd have been beating down my door? It makes no sense.
Let me put it another way.... when you joined this site, did you join in order to pay people to cuddle? Because I didn't, not really. I joined just to find a cuddle partner. It's only as I realized that this was extremely difficult that I started seeing pros.
What if my experience had been completely different? What if I joined and quickly found my inbox full of lots of messages from women interested in cuddling? Why would I, in that circumstance, ever say, "You know what, I'd rather pay to cuddle instead of seeing a few of these women who are interested in cuddling for free?"
Well that's generally women's experience. They come here and have plenty of opportunities. How likely is it any given woman is going to skip the 50,000,000 messages in her inbox and instead go pay someone to cuddle?
Also please realize many Male pros with karma from women are either other pros who will typically cuddle (or not) and exchange karma so they can have more karma and help with business . If the woman is not a pro, many times they will reach out and maybe initially ask for money and when declines will offer to cuddle for free . I know this because I have spoken to women who have had this very thing happen and sometimes they will go ahead and cuddle the male pro for free but often times just decline altogether . Also there are the cases of karma from someone before they decide to go pro as the karma will follow you I believe.
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/AJKirsch Nothing, which is why he has karma from an enthusiast woman. First decent professional male profile I've seen, thank you @CuddleWho!
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/Serraphin One of the ones from my data above. No body picture, no Karma. Of the first five sentences of his profile text, four start with the word "I". This is more likely to be indicative of depression than anything else, but its a marketing no-no. These sentences are followed by a section entitled RULES. I didn't read any further.
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/JustinLD No body picture, no Karma. Insufficient profile text, which includes an offer to do housework. I'm sure it's well-meant, but I find it unsettling.
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/EdthePanda Another from my data. No face picture, no body picture. (The only picture shows him with a mask: a good picture to include in and of itself, but inadequate on its own.) Profile text opens, "I'm fluffy guy that can be your teady bear..." Offers "cuddle workout" but I'm not clear what he means by that and my best guess the service he offers is basically a workout companion.
Regarding your own profile, I'm not sure what to say. I did exactly the same as you and I have met many enthusiast women. There is presumably some difference in the detail of our approach.
when you joined this site, did you join in order to pay people to cuddle?
I did, yes. I had been cuddling with a professional for about eighteen months and I was looking to broaden my horizons. There were other professionals at the same agency, and I did in the end cuddle with several of those, but I was specifically looking for a different perspective. I did not know of the existence of enthusiast cuddling until I joined CC.
How likely is it any given woman is going to skip the 50,000,000 messages in her inbox and instead go pay someone to cuddle?
I have answered this before but it was a while ago. There are two reasons. Firstly, half of those messages are worthless. Half of the rest are from misogynists or 'nice guys'. Half of what's left turn sexual after two messages, or one. At which point, anybody who has more than two ha'pennies to rub together would start thinking about hiring a professional, if one existed.
Secondly, cuddling with a professional is completely different from cuddling an enthusiast. In the second case, you are caring for somebody at least half the time, or you should be. In the first case, you can give yourself totally into somebody else's care. Both are wonderful in their own way, but they are not the same. Just because you have access to one doesn't mean you don't want the other.
@CuddleDuncan It's not a myth. It's just the truth that it's very rare that a woman will ever pay a man to cuddle them.
You live in a city with about 9 million people. Why aren't you a pro since there are legions of desperate touch-deprived women out there? You could be making a fortune.
@CuddleDuncan So you're saying half of the men on here are worthless, half of that are misogynists, and the other half only want sexual things? I assume you are in that group as well? Those are some serious accusations about the men on here.
You're saying an enthusiast only cares about their cuddle partner half the time and they can't totally give into somebody else's care? That is 100% false and a very rude thing to say.
The way you're analyzing these men's profiles is pretty extreme and I honestly don't know if other people look at it this way. I definitely don't. If things like "no body picture", "uses I a lot", and having a RULES section are show-stoppers... how the heck do most female pros get clients, because they do all the same stuff?
I mean, look at this one, which to my mind is pretty acceptable but completely fails according to your criteria. https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/Sweet__Ophelia Every sentence starts with either "I" or "Let me", no body picture. Do you think this woman has any trouble at all finding clients?
@CuddleWho
It is pretty extreme. The profile tells only one part of the person. The conversion with the person is what sets them apart.
@john1500 it's obviously true that it's very rare for a woman to pay a man to cuddle, but that's because it's very rare to find a professional male profile that you'd want to engage with.
I'm not a professional cuddler partly because I don't want to be, partly because my circumstances make it very difficult, partly because I subscribe to the ideal but don't cuddle men, and partly because I'm not sure I have the right characteristics to be really good at it.
Regarding the 'halfs' bit, I was referring to the messages, not the senders. And using 'half' in a figurative rather than a mathematical sense.
I'm not quite sure what your point is on the cuddle partner/care question. Maybe my own remark wasn't clear. All I was saying is that there is a profound difference between cuddling a professional and cuddling an enthusiast.
@CuddleDuncan
So you're saying if I had a profile that women wanted to engage in, then I would be making tons of money?
How do you know so much about the messages men send on here?
The only difference between a pro and an enthusiast is one gets money and the other one doesn't get paid.
@john1500
Ah! If you truly believe that that is the only difference, then .... well I'm not sure what I can say, actually.
I don't know a lot about the messages men send on here, I only know a little from listening to the women, both on the forum and privately.
Nope. Not saying that.
how the heck do most female pros get clients, because they do all the same stuff?
That is true, many women professionals do the same stuff yet still get clients. But we observe that when men do that stuff, they do not get clients. Therefore, the markets are different.
I don't know how much time you guys have spent talking to women enthusiasts and potential clients about men's profiles, both enthusiast and professional. I've done it a fair bit, I mean chatting on whatsapp about the good points and bad points while we both look at it.
I looked at the profile you posted and I'm afraid it doesn't make your point very well. Yes, there is no body picture and in my brief data analysis that would score 0, but there are at least a few photos in different circumstances. The profile text is better written in every possible sense than any of the ones I have criticised. Overall it's a better profile than almost all of them (with the exception of the one good one).
@john1500 of course the profile is only part of the story. But it's the first part of the story, and if it is not told engagingly then the rest of the story does not happen.
We must also remember that women professionals has been a business for a decade or so. There are hundreds on this site alone. It's a a much more mature stage of development than men professionals. It's therefore harder for men to attract clients, and therefore a higher standard of marketing is required. How many Aston Martin adverts have spelling mistakes?
Then what is the difference? Pros and enthusiasts provide the same thing. One pro may be better than an enthusiast and one enthusiast may be better than a pro. You very rudely said that enthusiasts care less about their cuddle partners than pros.
Since you don't know a lot about the messages on here, then don't make up fake stats and accuse men of being worthless, misogynistic, who only want sexual things.
You already said there are legions of touch-deprived women out there. I live in a city with about 5 million people. According to you, if I follow all your steps, then I should have no problem finding women to pay me.
Pros and enthusiasts provide the same thing.
No they don't. For a start, enthusiasts don't 'provide' anything. The very fact that you think they do is .... what makes it impossible for me to explain the difference.
The remark you claim is rude, is one I did not make.
I haven't accused men of anything. That is also something you made up.
if I follow all your steps, then I should have no problem finding women to pay me.
You won't, no. But I must emphasise all. Allow me to quote myself from the "How to ..." thread:
requires .....a commitment to personal growth
Enthusiasts don't provide anything?????? They provide cuddles. They provide the exact same thing as a pro.
Look above at your comments. You accused men of the the things I stated. You said half the men send messages that are worthless, and the only half are misogynistic who only want sexual things. You even admitted you don't know about a lot of the messages on here, but you rudely made assumptions about the men on here.
So how much money do you think I will be making in a year or two if I follow all your steps and I commit to personal growth?
Then do it. Seriously, if it's so straightforward for a male pro to be successful and make a lot of money (despite the fact that as far as I can tell no one has ever done it), and if you know all the answers of how it should be done, do it. I could sit here all day and lecture everybody about the way to make tons of money selling used paper towels, but unless I or someone does it, why should anyone take me seriously?
Let me ask you a different but related question. Why are essentially all prostitutes (among heterosexuals) women targeting men? What about sugar babies? Why are essentially all sugar babies (among heterosexuals) women targeting men? Why, in the 10,000 year history of prostitution, have so incredibly few men ever figured out how to get women to pay them for sex? Are men really just buffoons who have no idea how to market themselves, as you seem to allege? That certainly doesn't seem to be the case; there have always been plenty of entrepreneurial men who can figure out how to succeed in any given market.
The reason is simply that women can get sex way, way, way easier than men, and even if a given woman can't, she is extremely disinclined to pay for it. That's it. It's not that men are just morons when it comes to marketing themselves, it's that there is an extraordinarily small market for what they would be selling.
It's the same thing here. Yeah here cuddlers aren't selling sex, but it amounts to the same principle: women can get men's company way, way easier than men can get women's company.
@john1500 Have you ever cuddled an enthusiast woman that you met on CC? And what is a cuddle? It is an interesting question. I didn't know the answer a year ago, and after a year of thinking about it I'm in that classic position of knowing much more yet being further from the answer.
As to the messages, I said half were worthless, a quarter were from people who pretend to be pleasant but are in fact entitled or disrespectful towards women, and an eighth turned sexually quickly. I thought it was obvious from the post that I was speaking figuratively. And one of the reasons I don't know a lot about such messages is because I am not a women who receives them. However, I have learned much from reading comments about these messages in this forum.
As for your final question, the answer is very clearly given in the "How to ... " thread.
@CuddleWho @Yeah here cuddlers aren't selling sex, but it amounts to the same principle No, no it really doesn't. Cuddling has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with sex. (The word 'cuddling' is sometimes used as a cover or euphemism for sexual activity, but that's not what we are talking about here.)
Think about the cuddles that really matter. A mother for her newborn baby. An athlete with their coach after devoting their life to Olymic gold. A soldier holding his wounded buddy as he bleeds out.
I suspect you guys' experience of professional cuddling is very different from mine, and that's what gives rise to some of the differences in perspective.
The professional cuddlers I know best are intelligent, capable, attractive women. They look at me and they say to themselves, "Him! That one! The fat, depressed, lonely, middle-aged failure over there, he needs a cuddle. I want to cuddle him!" One of them at least complains bitterly that the world does not allow her to work for free: she has to earn to pay the rent.
I'm not saying cuddling is sexual; you have completely missed my point. The similarity between prostitution and pro cuddling is that both are selling a form of intimate contact that (traditionally) you don't normally have with strangers.
@CuddleDuncan I have cuddled pros and enthusiasts on other cuddle websites. The only difference was with the pro I exchanged money. Some enthusiasts were better than pros and vice versa.
@CuddleWho apologies, I'll have another read in the morning.
@john1500 I don't doubt you, but that is so disconnected from my understanding and experience of the world as to be incomprehensible to me.
Interesting that a thread about male pros has no input at all from male pros , only non pro men arguing about male pros. Plus the occasional smart ass comment by yours truly. Wondering if any male pros would like to weigh in to address the question by OP, which was what again?