I don’t typically “advertise” to enthusiasts, always let them come to me so I know there is no confusion. I understand what @cuddlerforu24 is saying and see how it can be frustrating for both parties. However perhaps a message in your bio stating not to solicit professional services so they know not to message you could be a better way to go about that happening. if you’re being advertised to & it’s unwanted, I think it’s better to simply ignore the message. I think of it the same way as if a person leaves a advertisement on my door. I won’t call the place back for say; pizza with discounted prices, and say “I’d prefer to make my own pizza” or “I’d prefer someone make me pizza for free.” It’s a waste of everyone’s time and some could find that insulting, as obviously stated by others in this thread. Simply “throw the advertisement away.” And move on.
Obtuse: “slow to understand”
Don’t see how that’s an insult. If you want I’ll modify the comment to express that. Would that be acceptable? It seems you have the ability to understand but prefer not to, that is all.
Perhaps I should elaborate:
You have freedom of conscience to disagree. You also have freedom on conscience not to understand.
AND what it appears is that you want to argue with pros why they find it offensive for someone to ask for free cuddles.
Let’s put this into a different context: Many Roma are offended by the term “gypsy” and would prefer to be called “Roma.” It is arrogant for me to argue with them about whether they should or should not be offended by the term because I am not them. I have used the term with people I have known personally because that is what they call themselves but that preference is not universal.
If pros say they find it annoying and rude to be asked to cuddle for free, then it is not for non-pros to tell them they should not be offended.
Personally, I find it desirable to listen to their experience and learn from it.
So, while you may not agree with their point of view you are not them and you don’t know what it’s like to be them. You can choose to make an effort to understand their point of view or you can choose not to do that. The choice is yours.
That is all. I was trying not to overexplain and not be so wordy but apparently that did not work.
What @Babichev said.
@banichev et al. How about you are “ slow to understand “ then , like others ,that the pro shares a territory where their” gift of cuddling “ as another poster put it , is freely exchanged for no pay. I won’t say obtuse which sounds uncomplimemtary. Time and time again a pro on this site is compared to other trades and professions .. ie lawyers , plumbers , pizza chains , hair dressers. A better equal comparison would be if “ you wouldn’t ask for free legal advice on “ lawyers ,com “ where there are enthusiast lawyers exchanging advice and website approved paid lawyers dispensing advice ,!with supposition that there is no difference in skill level between paid and unpaid lawyers . And why is holding up an opposing stance on a thread topic an argument . That suggests anger . Sorry , I displayed no anger above .
Some pros, in some professions, might find it rude.
In my profession as a musician you get used to it fairly quickly.
And learn to not take it as an insult, but rather as an opportunity to explain your value and get a paying gig.
If they persist in asking, offer them a free alternative.
Boom boxes and a radio station for musicians.
Maybe a body pillow for cuddlers?
Argument ≠ anger
“A reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others.”
This post is a prime example of why analogies come up short when trying to debate issues related to pro cuddling.
There are definitely clients out there who ask for discounts and free sessions because doing that sort of thing is just an aspect of their personality. These folks probably do ask for discounts at the hairdresser. They know it may come across as rude, but it works sometimes and they get a thrill from getting the discount.
There are others who joke that they shouldn’t have to pay because the pro seems to be enjoying the session. These guys often make the joke that “you should be paying me.” I think these are the same folks who ask artists to work for exposure and say things like “my kid could do something like that.” They truly don’t value esoteric sorts of labor.
But the scenario the OP seems to be describing is pretty unique to pro cuddling and it’s extremely tricky. There are times when clients feel a strong rapport or connection with a pro and begin to regard them as a friend. By extension, once that feeling develops, it feels strange to pay for that experience and they ask to continue cuddling for free. The pro is put in an extremely awkward position here. Simply saying “no” generally leads to a very real emotional reaction for the client who suddenly feels duped or deceived, as if his every previous interaction was “not real” or just a “cash grab.”
It can spiral into a lot of negative emotions for the client who might break down or lash out. It can undo all the beautiful benefits that cuddling has brought them.
I’m not angry at the client when this happens, but I do feel sick with grief. I do care about all my clients and feel terrible when cuddling brings them anything other than peace. The infinitely wise @pmvines used to say that some personality types are not suited to cuddling—that some folks, in the rush of all those feel good chemicals in the brain and body, cannot maintain the separation between the activity and the relationship.
@BellaSera , as usual you have beautifully hit the nail squarely on the head. Thank you.
@BellaSera
It isn't terribly surprising when that happens, is it?
I mean, at an albeit base ego level, needing to pay for manufactured affection feels bad emotionally.
It's akin to paying mourners at your funeral, or getting the other kids in your class to show up at your birthday party by promising them all pizza and ice cream.
We all want to believe that we can have friendships, relationships, and our emotional/physical human connection needs met based solely on our value as fellow humans.
That, to quote the ubiquitous motivational speakers, posters, and healers, "You are enough".
But we aren't.
Painfully, what is enough is money.
There is nothing immoral or selfish with trading time, attention, and skill for money, but that doesn't mean that there is anything moral or generous about it either.
As a musician, with the exception of my own shows or recordings, I don't really enjoy playing for money. It's a huge pain in the ass usually.
A lot of it much like any other profession.
You have to get there, with your gear. You have to be presentable, you need to be ready to be a bit early, and spend extra time if needed. And dealing with clients, promoters, directors, and producers is actual work. Not to mention the time learning someone else's material in someone else's style. While they look over your shoulder and (because they are paying money for it) critique, and nit pick, and demand whatever they think of as "perfection" on their project.
And if you fail, that's a terrible mark against your reputation, so DON'T FAIL.
It's stressful, and the four rewards are: Money, the approval of whatever audience is there is a nice bonus, meeting other musicians, and it beats working at McDonald's.
Teaching music is a bit different, although all the same issues apply, and some students are nothing but hassle.
Another place that I think professional music teaching might intersect with professional cuddling... There is the rare student who is actually talented, actually dedicated, and that in fact learns and grows. Those are golden eggs, and are cherished in ways I can't explain.
Also, after a semester or two, or a year or so, those students become friends and proteges, and I stop charging them. We simply hang out and play, and learn from each other. They go from clients to peers, and from peers to friends over time.
Something I have heard a professional cuddler or three talk about. Clients who become friends and suddenly everything is confused and now they have lost a client, but gained a friend... Who expects cuddling... Oh goodie!
Which, granted, makes it harder for all the cuddlers out there that CAN maintain a professional emotional distance from clients, and don't confuse an already complex relationship. Because if I heard those stories, so did others. And, of course, hope springs eternal so why wouldn't their professional cuddler suddenly "see how awesome they are" and become friends?
I know that other professionals in the various service industries have problems with "clingy" clients and customers, and most of those jobs are nowhere close to as emotionally or physically intimate as cuddling.
It is a difficult balancing act, and I don't envy the people who do it.
I don’t think it’s a matter of whether we are enough or not. It may feel like that but our social rules get in the way. Cuddling is not done between most friends, it’s done with one’s significant other. If one does not have a significant other or one’s SO is not physically affectionate, it’s not comfortable for most folks to ask friends for cuddles. I think since it feels to most people that they should be able to have cuddles freely but they are, in fact, not available freely, it sets up a tension between what we think we should be able to have and what is available in reality.
I agree our “culture” is toxic, in uncountable ways, but that doesn’t mean that the wounds caused by that toxicity aren’t real.
And far harder to heal from than simply thinking about it logically.
My marriage of 25 years failed when my mother was diagnosed with cancer and my wife left rather than help me care for her.
None of that is my “fault”, but I am well aware I will never trust myself again, and I will never forget what a loser I am.
And all of the logic, all of the self-reflection, all of the “You are enough” mantras don’t put a dent in those feelings.
@CharlesThePoet, professional mourners are a thing and have been at least as far back as Ancient Egypt. Despite what it may seem, there is not a universal stigma surrounding the paying of money to another person to feel and/or express emotions on your behalf. Interestingly, it is largely women who have historically dominated professional mourning and that trend continues amongst the occupation to this day.
I feel both sad and frustrated when I see you write:
We all want to believe that we can have friendships, relationships, and our emotional/physical human connection needs met based solely on our value as fellow humans. That, to quote the ubiquitous motivational speakers, posters, and healers, "You are enough". But we aren't. Painfully, what is enough is money.
All humans do have inherent worth and the capacity to make physical and emotional connections with other humans. Furthermore, everyone deserves to have their touch needs met. But that doesn't mean that this affection and intimacy must needs be free and freely available. It always requires work of some kind.
@Babichev is "right on the money," so to speak. Both she and the OP, @RoxannneFoxanne, shared the same sentiment from the beginning--it doesn't matter whether or not a client becomes a friend, as very few people (pro cuddlers inclusive) spend any significant time cuddling with friends. Especially friends of the opposite sex/gender. There are lots of reasons why. It's a combination of factors that include socio-cultural conventions that make closeness between non-romantic partners taboo, lack of time, lack of energy, and dealing with life circumstances that might leave us feeling all "touched out."
When you hire a quality pro-cuddler, though, all those complications melt away. My clients not only get the best of me, but they also get the best of me focused exclusively on their needs and desires. Of course, this is intoxicating. A client recently asked me, in earnest, "how do you prevent people from falling in love with you?" I didn't have a good answer. We chatted about all these same issues at length, but in the end, I think I just laughed a little and hugged him tighter.
Most folks get their touch needs met by cultivating relationships with family, friends, and one or more romantic partners. But, despite the absence of a monetary transaction, all of these interactions require effort to build and maintain. Professional cuddling allows people to skip some of the difficult or tedious steps in the intimacy-building process, and get straight to the pleasurable part without the annoyance and tedium. Some clients really love that convenience, while others feel shame and must bury those feelings in a relationship story.
I wish that it was easier to ask for and get what one wants without shame or stigma.
@Babichev ... “.... it is not for non pros to tell them they should not be offended “.
I never said they should not be offended , I said it shouldn’t be a problem ... given the freedom of dual membership groups that members can identify with .
And when you we can learn from pros experiences we can learn from non pro experiences . We just had one posted in the general category of discussion . An enthusiast greeted a new Cc enthusiast , he introduced himself , I’m assuming working up for cuddles in the future and then the person he messaged updated their profile to say “ my time is not free” . He dutifully reported this person as asked by the site . He then said no to her “ you still interested “
Was he offended ? I don’t think so given that he did not block , she did . He simply dealt with the notion that this enthusiast got intoxicated thinking that her ability to get his oxytocin’s flowing was a commodity worth paying for .
That posted experience should wash this threads posted experience .
That same person contacted me out of the blue and her entire attitude was "I am so special and you should be so grateful I am even talking to you." She got real offended when I asked what made her any different and started asking questions to find out if we were a good fit. She took it as I was trying to pick her up. She admitted she doesn't trust people at all and wants nothing to do with them other than making money from them. I promptly told her she needs to work on her social skills and if she doesn't trust people, she is in the wrong place.
Yea, some “pros” shouldn’t be pros…