Secondary Relationships Between Pros and Clients.

herby357

I'm curious to know how the community feels about secondary relationships between clients and pros.

My feeling is that maintaining secondary relationships with clients, or non cuddling activities outside of sessions should be off limits. This is to maintain a professional distance and between clients and cuddlist. And mostly to avoid the minefields of transference and co-dependency.

I do NOT feel that this should apply to enthusiasts as its a different type of relationship.

I've been cuddling for years now and have always been a little off-put by the practice. Please share your thoughts?

Jubal

I've never posted in the forum threads before, but will say just a few words about the idea of clients and pros on here developing a relationship outside of CC: "freedom of association" and "consenting adults".

btw - I'm not being snarky or negative. I sincerely believe that people on here have the right to move into a friendship or relationship if they have the right chemistry, common interests and so on.

cuddles_ndream

I wouldn’t require pros to avoid secondary relationships, but I think most of them are very smart to know that some clients will assume they can take advantage of that friendship & not respect their time / work because now all of a sudden they are friendly … so in essence I’m not concerned with the pros, I’m concerned with clients trying to use the opportunity of being “friendly” to not respect their time / their work / ect

herby357

@Jubal and @cuddles_ndream. Thanks for the feedback.

I too feel the professional providers in the community should be respected on all levels.

However, Pros have the power regarding if/when they choose to see a client. If that client feels that they "have developed the right chemistry, or common interest," and the feeling is not being reciprocated on the Pros part, the situation has regressed to the definition of transference or codependency by the client. I say this because most "dates" don't involve the intimacy of cuddling.

In my eyes, the client is the most vulnerable in the situation, not the provider.

Thanks again for the feedback. I'm hoping some Pros will weigh in - I'd love to hear their perspectives.

Ironman294

Two people regardless of labels can and will develop friendships or even relationships, it happens. It’s life, situations arise. Some of them are super cool, just be chill and go with the flow. Act like a normal person, if one side decides to stop the friendship then it’s over. No big whoop.
Happy cuddles, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah and Festivis!

CuddleWho

IME this is very common; until recently I’m not sure I had ever met a pro cuddler who diligently maintained this particular boundary with clients.

I think the concept of transference is fairly silly in general and particularly inapplicable here… if a client developed feelings for a pro he was spending a lot of time with, it would probably just be because he liked her, not because he was transferring the feelings he really had for someone else.

In theory the boundary of keeping the relationship strictly a client/pro one makes perfect sense… in practice though I think that’s a hopeless battle and we’re all better off accepting that the pro cuddler scene is what it is. The large majority of pro cuddlers are just random young women who want to make some extra cash. They’re not trained and educated professionals in that sense. Let the pro cuddle scene be the informal mess that it is and presumably always will be.

Babichev

Dual relationships are, by their nature, more difficult to navigate. They are not impossible but it requires both parties to be mature and clear about boundaries to make it work. In the case of pro cuddlers, are they going to risk their friendship with someone who becomes a client in order to keep professional boundaries? What if the friend wants a discount? Or wants them to wear less clothing? What if the pro, because they are a friend, thinks they don’t need to maintain such professional boundaries with a friend and starts misleading them about the nature of the relationship? What if they start giving the person more time and then, down the line, decide they have to stop doing that?

If both the client and pro can separate the cuddle relationship from their secondary relationship and maintain good boundaries, it can work. If not it can get messy.

herby357

@CuddleWho I too am happy that this community exists. It has helped me recover from a life trauma.

Unfortunately, it seems you don't have a full grasp of what transference is (no disrespect). But its about a client that develops an emotional tie to their provider -- not a third party (which is how I understood your reply).

In a more regulated services, or any other venue for that matter where there is a pro/client relationship and the client is emotionally vulnerable to their provider. Transference is one of the main topics taught/discussed, and usually on an ethical level.

ernesto_2

Personally, I try to establish and maintain some degree of (platonic) relationship with anyone I have or may potentially cuddle, whether a Professional or Enthusiast. I do this because (a) I want to establish a minimal level of mutual understanding and trust prior to a session and (b) to sustain a friendship or cordiality (cuddler dependent) for long-term appreciation.

I think the most important thing to know about Professional-Enthusiast relationships is that they are not equals! There is an inherent power imbalance (one is a paid service provider and the other is a paying client), and in that vein is akin to forming a relationship with your doctor or lawyer. This is done comically in some TV shows, but tends to not turn out that well in the real world.

It's also important to understand the primary function of being a Professional is to be paid by client(s) for cuddling. This means that an Enthusiast may not have any exclusivity with the Professional. Even in polyamorous relationships, non-exclusivity can lead to significant emotionally straining.

To keep it short, I'll just add one point that has helped me in my experience here on CC:

If one cuddler is seeking any sort of relationship that the other is not, then no amount of sessions, exchanging of money, or messages will change that. This is a platonic site that offers a service often times associated with emotional intimacy. If there is an imbalance of intention between two parties, it is best to not pursue anything beyond a provider-client relationship. It even might be best to discontinue the provider-client relationship, too.

I think this depends on the individuals involved. For me, for example, I am easily enmeshed into people. And I recognize this about myself. Therefore, I like to maintain boundaries. Me and my clients will either only have a business agreement, or if any one I know personally wanted me to be their professional cuddle buddy, that'd a longer screening and we'd have to establish some boundaries between the friendship and cuddle partnership. But this knowledge comes with 30 years of life experience. I know that I have to navigate these cuddle streets as a boundary queen because if I don't, things have a possibility of getting murky and that is not happening.

I've never had that happen as of yet, but if I ever did, it'd probably be a greater chance of that happening with a personal connection that wanted to try out my professional cuddling/companionship services. Then we would have to have a different conversation than what I'd have with someone I met on here for example. And if I smelled just an ounce of murkiness, we can revisit our boundaries and be sure we're still on the same page.

herby357

@RaeLew Thanks for the perspective.

biancalovecraft

I always welcome friendship from my cuddle partners, when it's appropriate. I think being able to discern that is part of the role. Friendship, social support, and connection is just as important as a long squish. That's my perspective. That said, I have been sorely mistaken before, but it's rare and worth it.

CuddleWho

@herby357

Unfortunately, it seems you don't have a full grasp of what transference is (no disrespect). But its about a client that develops an emotional tie to their provider -- not a third party (which is how I understood your reply).

I understand transference, and I understand that it's about an emotional tie to the provider. Nothing I wrote said otherwise.

Transference occurs when (supposedly) the feelings a client actually has for an important figure in their regular life become transferred to the therapist (or cuddler), and the client thinks their feelings are solely about the therapist/cuddler, when actually they're about this other figure.

I'm saying this is mostly nonsense. If a client develops feelings for a cuddler... he probably just has feelings for the cudder. There's no need to invoke this overblown idea of transference.

Ahmedali999

I don't see nothing wrong with secondary relationship with pros , i have 1 pro have good relationship with her sometimes I call her and she's ready to listen if i need to speak to someone, she does it in a humanity way.

CuddleWho

@ernesto_2

I think the most important thing to know about Professional-Enthusiast relationships is that they are not equals! There is an inherent power imbalance (one is a paid service provider and the other is a paying client)

Uh. Exactly which person has more power in this scenario, and in what way could that power be exercised?

MrMarkAndrew

This only applies to trained and certified providers, like counselors, psychiatrists, therapists, etc.

ernesto_2

@CuddleWho Generally speaking, the power dynamic is going to vary.

The Professional possess some power: they can decline a client's offer, or chose to terminate the session without refund.

There is also in different ways power for the client (who is most commonly also the host) because that potentially places the Professional further from their own surroundings.

Not to conflate the topic with that of safety, security, trust, respect, etc... but that by the very definition of being a provider-client relationship, the power imbalance inherently creates an inequality between the two people. Outside of economic circles, power imbalance is antithetical to healthy, mutually consentual relationships.

herby357

@biancalovecraft Thanks for the feedback.

@CuddleWho From my perspective most people cuddle to fill some type of void from love to loneliness and everything in between. The intimate nature/unconditional acceptance by Pros of their clients creates the perfect set of circumstances for transference. Adding in quasi-dating/non-cuddling activities only throws fuel on that fire.

At this juncture, I'm simply going to agree to disagree with your take that transference is "overblown nonsense." Particularly when it manifests itself in the form of a former-love interest and not one's parent.

We are entitled to our disparate opinions.

CuddleWho

@ernesto_2

Or we could just say that everyone involved is a competent adult with their own agency and that “power” like the ability to decline an offer is no different than the “power” we all display in our everyday lives (if I ask a woman on a date, she can decline… does that mean there’s a power imbalance?).

xandriarain

I think it’s important to draw a line. For example it wouldn’t be fair to hang out with one client outside of a session free of charge but not my other clients. Also I just wouldn’t have time even though I’m sure I would have fun spending time with many of my clients on a social level. There have been times where I gave a client a choice whether they wanted to be my client or have another type of relationship. For example one client wanted to work on a business together another one wanted to be friends but I was very upfront that I couldn’t continue to see them as a client. In both cases neither the business relationship or friendship worked out so moving forward I’m gonna stick to keeping things strictly professional.

herby357

@xandriarain Appreciate the feedback.

Sheena123

I have a good handful of cuddlers that have sessions with me, but then we’ll head out to karaoke afterwards or go get ice cream or a dinner. If we’re doing something I would probably do by myself, like karaoke, I certainly don’t mind them tagging with me. I don’t charge for that time. They usually pay for the meal or the ice cream but when we’re at karaoke, it’s understood that this is still my time off in a sense. I love their company but if they won’t respect that I’m not going to hang off you in between us singing songs, then we aren’t going to hang out. Period. Every single one of them respects that. They know I’m happily married so no love relationship is going to happen. I’ve made it clear that I love having friendships but my job comes first. Now and again, I’ll have someone say “hey, Wanna go do this? Would I need to pay you?”, I explain to them that my free time is dedicated to my husband and my family. I let them know that there are certain things I would gladly do with them without charge but that’s up to me to say. If my cuddler is inviting me to something, I’ll be the one to say “ooo I’d love to. I won’t charge” or “oh awesome. I can totally go. It will be so and so hours so it would cost such and such amount”. And then it’s up to them to decide.

Cuddling involves a lot more intimacy and connection than other jobs so I think it’s perfectly understandable that a site that is dedicated to supplying connections would be fine with a cuddler feeling more comfortable doing an activity in public. As long as boundaries are set for that just like the boundaries you would set for a cuddler, it’s between the pro and the cuddler. If it’s not for you, carry on.

herby357

@Sheena123 Appreciate the feedback.